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912s vs. Jabiru 3300

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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 1:11 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

 	  Quote: 	
		  But the Rotax has the problems often talked about on our site. 

Thrown carbs, shaking start, cracks and stuff.  It just makes me 

think the Jabber is a bit better.


	


Anyone following the light sport category developments of the last 

few years will note that the Rotax 912 and 912S dominate the field. 

There are also certified aircraft (such as the Diamond Katana) flying 

behind certified versions of the 912.  There must be a reason they 

are so popular with manufacturers.



I am no expert on the Jabirus but from what I have heard from members 

of the Desert Fox Squadron, the 4-stroke Rotax engines are lighter, 

produce more thrust, and burn less fuel.  Murle Williams told me 

today of a couple of friends of his that had 912-powered 'foxes that 

flew with a Jabiru-powered 'fox of the same model and configuration 

on a cross country trip.  The Rotax-powered planes had to slow down 

by about 10 mph for the Jabiru to keep up and when they landed, the 

latter took on significantly more fuel.



There is no perfect solution to any problem, and the 912 family is 

not perfect either.  But the problems mentioned above all have 

solutions and I'm sure the 3300 has problems as well.



As for me, my last 'fox had a 912S and the next one will as well.  My 

Model IV-1200 with Ivo medium prop could launch in 120 feet (solo), 

sustain a 40 degree climb angle, hit Vne (140 mph) in level flight, 

and sipped gas like it was something expensive...wait...I guess it 

is.  Empty weight came in at 660 pounds.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I simply want to have a few more ponies than 100 so I can get a bit 

more cruise out of the airplane...


	


Additional horsepower is not what you need to increase your cruise 

speed, it's additional thrust.  More horsepower MIGHT give you more 

thrust but it depends upon a lot of other factors as well.



As with all opinions, this one is worth what you paid for it.  



Mike G.

N728KF

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 2:15 am Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

On Jul 2, 2006, at 11:09 AM, Michael Gibbs wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   from what I have heard from members of the Desert Fox Squadron, the 

 4-stroke Rotax engines are lighter, produce more thrust, and burn less 

 fuel.


	


I don't know, Mike, since I never had a 912 but I think it would be 

strange that a Rotax, with its gearbox and water cooling system is 

lighter than a Jabiru. My fuel consumption at cruise speed (Kitfox 3) 

is about 12 liters per hour. How does that compare to a 80 HP Rotax? 

Here is an interesting link from UK:



http://www.sportair.co.uk/cgi-bin/Page87L2.htm



Cheers,

Michel

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

Michel,



My last Fox (Model III like yours) had the 80 hp 912 and it burned right around what you are getting with the 2200...about 3-3.5 gph at 75%.



Mike,



I understand that it is thrust that give you speed but as you said this is dependent on a whole lot more than your engine's power.  It depends very much on the prop as well.  That is why I am trying to figure out if the Jabiru is compatible with an in-flight adjustable prop.  If so, I would think that you could get very good use out of the extra 20 hp by adjusting the prop and hence getting a bit more speed out of the airplane.  I appreciate your input and as stated, have no problems with the 912 (I have owned one and loved it and will most likely go with another for this kit) I simply want to explore my options and I figure you guys can help me make and informed decision.



Can anyone out there give me some real life data on a Series 7 with a 912S and an IFA prop?  What kind of cruise do you see?...How about climb rates?  Keep in mind that I am in Utah (4500' msl) so the sea level data doesn't mean much to me.  I would like to find someone who has flown in and out of say...the Idaho backcountry with the setup mentioned.  Anybody got any numbers...?



Thanks,



Darin

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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

Darin,



You sure know how to stir things up.  People here

marry their engines like they do their planes. 

Luckily you didn't ask which was better, a Fox or a

Rans.  



Someone here has a 3300 on a Fox, but I forgot who.



I am not an owner of either engine choice, so I hope

impartial.



John McBean sells some inflight adjustables props and

has some good data on them, if he is around and has

the time to share.  I think he has been flying with

them himself.



I think it is the weight and stiffness or resonance of

the prop that is the issue with the Jabbers.  The

first engines had cranks that were too light for some

of the props people tried.  I think that was fixed,

but a light weight prop is still required.



You have the extra HP from the 3300, even with the

greater fixed pitch prop loss.  If you can use an

adjustable, it should be a great performer.  Closer to

a  914 at much less price and repair costs.



The Roo 3300 is certainly a simpler installation to

work on, assuming you can remove the ducting easily.



Kurt S.  S-5/NSI turbo/CAP



--- darinh <gerns25(at)netscape.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Michel,

 

 My last Fox (Model III like yours) had the 80 hp 912

 and it burned right around what you are getting with

 the 2200...about 3-3.5 gph at 75%.

 

 Mike,

 

 I understand that it is thrust that give you speed

 but as you said this is dependent on a whole lot

 more than your engine's power.  It depends very much

 on the prop as well.  That is why I am trying to

 figure out if the Jabiru is compatible with an

 in-flight adjustable prop.  If so, I would think

 that you could get very good use out of the extra 20

 hp by adjusting the prop and hence getting a bit

 more speed out of the airplane.  I appreciate your

 input and as stated, have no problems with the 912

 (I have owned one and loved it and will most likely

 go with another for this kit) I simply want to

 explore my options and I figure you guys can help me

 make and informed decision.

 

 Can anyone out there give me some real life data on

 a Series 7 with a 912S and an IFA prop?  What kind

 of cruise do you see?...How about climb rates?  Keep

 in mind that I am in Utah (4500' msl) so the sea

 level data doesn't mean much to me.  I would like to

 find someone who has flown in and out of say...the

 Idaho backcountry with the setup mentioned.  Anybody

 got any numbers...?

 

 Thanks,

 

 Darin


	


__________________________________________________

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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 12:38 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

Michel,



--- Michel Verheughe <michel(at)online.no> wrote:



..............

 	  Quote: 	
		   Here is an interesting link from UK:

 

 http://www.sportair.co.uk/cgi-bin/Page87L2.htm

 

 Cheers,

 Michel


	


Good link and story.  I do think the engines are

almost equal and you have to go with the little

preferences, or less price.



Kurt S.



__________________________________________________

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darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

 	  smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho wrote: 	
		  Darin,



You sure know how to stir things up.  People here

marry their engines like they do their planes. 

Luckily you didn't ask which was better, a Fox or a

Rans.  	




I guess they do but I wouldn't be so ignorant to ask such a thing as which was better a Fox or a Rans...the answer is obvious isn't it?  ...I love the Rotax...just looking at options.



 	  Quote: 	
		  

You have the extra HP from the 3300, even with the

greater fixed pitch prop loss.  If you can use an

adjustable, it should be a great performer.  Closer to

a  914 at much less price and repair costs. 	




That would be exactly what I am looking for!  Just don't know if it is compatible with the IFA props.  I will talk to Jabiru tomorrow.



Darin

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MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: 912s vs. Jabiru 3300

Darin sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Can anyone out there give me some real life data on a Series 7 with 

a 912S and an IFA prop? What kind of cruise do you see?...How about 

climb rates?


	


I have reams of such data, but they are from my Model IV-1200.  Let 

me know if you'd like me to look it up for you.



Mike

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