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Alan Carter
Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 378
Location: Kent, England.
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 Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
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Hello All.
When you get to page 2+ on the forum it means to me its a tricky subject under discussion. When you have flown four engines then come down to flying on 2 engines flying with one engine become unthinkable.
And the older you get, the wiser you become in valuing your life.
I agree mainly with Jonathan's comments, but I have flown 10,000 hours on single engine aeroplanes with only one forced landing, and that when part of the prop decided not to stay with the aeroplanein an inverted spin, really can,t be call an engine failure. So I have had 10,000 hours safely on one engine, admittedly not Rotax engines in home built aeroplanes.The engine does not know it it's at night, in cloud or over water. Personally I would rather have engine failure in a light aeroplane at night over land rather than over water.My preference maybe not yours, however I have taught hundreds of night forced landings,and estimate 80% would have been reasonably successful.
Please don't post replies; if you like it remember it and I hope it serves you well if needed; if you don't like it delete it and forget it. You won't find this in the text books but it's from thousands of hours of hands on flying and instructing and just passing it on to you.
Provided the surface wind is below 12 kts forget about it, usually at night the surface wind decreases and the 2,000 foot wind increases.
At night you want forward visibility, if you have a moon turn towards it, your visibility will now be more than doubled. Choose your open area, get your speed back in the glide to a slow safe glide speed, do all the odds and ends on the way down. When ready get your flaps down so pointing the nose more down.
Here's the interesting bit: on the C150 we opened the side window and stuck our heads out, holding on straight with a bit of crossed controls. With the Perplexe gone a further 5 times increase in visibility is possible, you can see fields, trees and power lines. In fact its like landing at dusk.
A Europa, will fly without a door. Somehow I would get the door open enough, by what ever means necessary, to get my head out so as to see ahead. As we know from a recent thread the door will happily leave the aeroplane if unlocked, one lost door is not important in this situation. But you can hold it open with one hand until the wheels touch.
The Europa is no different to any other single engine aeroplane at night, it does not know night from day, so the chances of failure are the same.
The only thing I would say, the brakes are not as good as a C150 s which will stop you on a six pence (dime, 2 cents etc) and that's a plus when it comes to force landings.
As for flying the Europa in IMC, again in the 60s/70s we did at least 70% of the course in cloud. I find it hard to believe the whole course can now be done under the hood where you can peek out.
Cloud is a hostile environment it's bumpy, wet, cold, and dark. With or without "Know Icing", icing occurs and many aircraft have a point of first detection, on the C150 it was the little door latch just below the wing,
So if you have done all your IMC rating in VFR you have no experience of this hostile environment. Disorientation only take a couple of minutes and losing the A/H in bumpy cloud in a Europa is not the same as flying in VFR under the hood on limited panel.
I know owners and groups can receive training and a currency test on a Europa, but I can find no reference to adding ratings. A heated pitot is required for IMC, it's checked on the Pre Flight, it's Turned on in the Check list, and on entering cloud it's part of the instrument checklist "heaters check on". I can not see the CAA allowing imaginary checks, in fact if you failed to do these checks you would fail the IMC.
If the Europa is fitted with all the kit will be fine in cloud, provide you keep away from stormy weather, and fly in layer cloud or climb and come out on top.
The Europa is very light, and not meant for turbulent cloud, The aeroplane will handle it better than the pilots, because IFR is a high work load and requires constant practice to keep currant.
And if you fly on an NPPL of LAPL you can,t add a IMC rating to it.
Regards.
Alan
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graeme bird
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:51 am Post subject: Re: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
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Anyone know the progress on this? It was unclear to me in the last LAA mag whether a Europa is still in the trials - I assume so. Whose is it and how is it doing I wonder?
When I flew across the Irish Sea the other day I was glad of my IMC training and AH as the haze obliterated any real forward horizon for half an hour although to each side to the sea was clear. Tempted to ditch my steam DI for something more informed - although I don't want to be entirely GPS system dependent.
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_________________
Graeme Bird
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brian.davies(at)clara.co.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:56 pm Post subject: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
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Graeme,
The first four aircraft in the trials do not include a Europa. Once the
process has been agreed with the CAA, based on experience of the first four,
we will be trialling a further group of ten aircraft and then making it a
standard procedure. In order to be part of the trials someone has to be
prepared to put their aircraft through a fairly expensive test flight
evaluation in order to determine that the flight characteristics of the
aircraft meet the requirements of EASA design code CS-23. The owner also
has to be prepared to pay for a fair amount of simulated and actual IMC
flying in order to evaluate the suitability of the equipment fit without any
guarantee that they will get approval at the end of the process. So far, no
Europa owner has come forward to take on this challenge.
Regards
Brian Davies
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graeme bird
Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434
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brian.davies(at)clara.co.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: LAA/CAA IFR permission on europas |
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Hi Graeme,
You would have to talk to Andy Draper to get more detail. Although the
Europa has not been specifically tested it is expected to be no problem on
the flying qualities side but this has to be checked as first of type by an
approved test pilot who expects to be paid. Most of the instrumentation
issues arise from uncertified glass rather than a standard six pack. The
Night/IFR team are developing a check list that can be used to assess the
equipment suitability.
Give Andy a call.
Regards
Brian
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. What kind of amount of money are you talking about Brian?