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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 12:57 pm Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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THANKS Al. That is what I will do probably on Fri or Sat since the temperature is supposed to be in the low 90's instead of 100+.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
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hansoncp(at)netnitco.net
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:46 pm Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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So the small separation is just aft of the gusset reinforcement for the firewall. I would think you probably have the most hours on a four place and this is showing an area that just needs to be beefed up with glass as a result of the engine vibration over time. I would make the glass layups wet and be sure to resin the fuselage area before adding the glass. I would not add glass to the outside. Get some hours on the fix and see how it holds up. My two cents.
[quote] ---
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fredorosa(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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What happened with your nose gear?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can make sure it won't happen again.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
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<Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
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galinhdz(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 3:52 am Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller. There was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | What happened with your nose gear?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can make sure it won't happen again.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
|
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<Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:45 am Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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Galin,
I would put at least one light weight fiberglass layer over the exterior separation prior to final refinish. The open seam will most likely cause the paint to open up again. you might want to leave the exterior untouched until you have flown your plane several hours post interior lay-ups in order to confirm that the exterior crack is not growing, confirming that the repair was successful.
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:52 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo
On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin,a major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller. There was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | What happened with your nose gear?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can make sure it won't happen again.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
|
|
<Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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wschertz343(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:39 pm Post subject: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo |
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Let me chime in on this also. I believe that you need to fill the void between the separated layers, or it provides a place for the crack to propagate from. To do this, use a 1/8” drill, and drill from the outside through the outer layer in several places. Then load a syringe or caulking gun with (warm so it is fluid) Hysol. place the tip against an end hole, and pump in the adhesive till it comes out the other end. I have done this with epoxy on some layups that ended up with an included bubble that needed to be filled and it worked surprisingly well. It may also be useful to use a hair dryer (not a high temp heat gun) to warm the surface so the adhesive will flow better.
Your drilled holes will be covered by the applied layer of fiberglass referred to by Tim
Bill Schertz
From: Tim Yoder (ftyoder(at)yoderbuilt.com)
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 12:44 PM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo
Galin,
I would put at least one light weight fiberglass layer over the exterior separation prior to final refinish. The open seam will most likely cause the paint to open up again. you might want to leave the exterior untouched until you have flown your plane several hours post interior lay-ups in order to confirm that the exterior crack is not growing, confirming that the repair was successful.
Tim
From: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Galin Hernandez
Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 4:52 AM
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Fuselage Separation Inside Photo
On July 21, 2014 the nose gear on my TR-4 failed just as I exited the runway. The landings (three that day) were super smooth, which is not very common for me. The front pin on the nose gear assembly failed. When I went to make the right turn off the runway, the rear pin then failed which let the entire assembly rotate 180 degrees to the left. Once the assembly was 180 degrees off center the tube couldn't hold the stress, it failed and the whole thing collapsed. The a new nose gear assembly was replaced but with shear bolts instead of a stainless steel pin, a major overhaul was done on the engine and installed a new CATTO 3 bladed composite propeller. There was a lot of posting on the forum during the repairs.
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=104460
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 10:59 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | What happened with your nose gear?
Sent from my iPhone
On Aug 1, 2016, at 6:32 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Al; here is the photo of the area in question as seen from the inside. I wonder if it could be an undetected problem stemming from the nose gear failure of 2014. I am concerned at what could have caused the issue so I can make sure it won't happen again.
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:54 PM, Alfred Rosa <fredorosa(at)gmail.com (fredorosa(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Make sure you rough the area good using 60 grit paper. See if you can force the joint open a bit with a blade or something and squeeze some resin into it from inside the fuselage. You can make one patch of 4 or more plys and slap it on. There are no shear forces so it needn't be outrages. I don't think you need to do anything to the outside other than cosmetic work. You can always add some glass to the outside if the separation reoccurs. I don't think this was ever a dangerous structural failure.
Al Rosa
On Mon, Aug 1, 2016 at 4:17 PM, Galin Hernandez <galinhdz(at)gmail.com (galinhdz(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Here is a photo of where the separation is happening as seen from inside the cockpit on the pilot side. In order to get the picture I had to clean and sand the area which was not fun. Even then, the separation is very hard to see but you can feel it with your finger. Al Rosa correctly noted it was almost perfectly aligned to where the top engine bolt enters the firewall. I drew a line to highlight where the separation is happening.
I first noticed it about 30hrs ago but thought it was a paint defect not a fiberglass one. I wonder why it suddenly appeared after all these years and with so many hours flown? I also wonder if it could have something to do with the nose gear failure I had back in 2014? Do you guys think a good structural repair can be done in such a hard to get area. ARGHHHHHHH
|
|
<Separation Left Inside View.jpg>
|
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List |
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