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Trips 2017 UK/Europe
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JohnFrance

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 77
Location: Grenoble France

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Dear Europa pilots, France has been in a state of emergency since July 2015 which has been extended until July 2017.  This has the effect that the Schengen agreement is no longer in force for cross border aircraft travel and all flights to and from France need to go through an "airport of entry".

 Make sure you have up-to-date information about airports of entry as the number has been reduced over the last 12 months due to government cuts.

Once you are here though it is an easy system to navigate in and the ATC controllers speak good English and are generally very helpful. 

Regards 

John

_________________
Europa mono Nr 192

houlihan(at)blueyonder.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 5:47 am Post subject: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Oh. regarding 	  Quote: 	
		  

Dear Europa pilots, France has been in a state of emergency since July 2015 which has been extended until July 2017. This has the effect that the Schengen agreement is no longer in force for cross border aircraft travel and all flights to and from France need to go through an “airport of entry”. 	


I did not find any of problems you you mention during last years Europa club trip to France, Italy, Austria, Germany, Czech republic and Poland.,  other than the number of customs entry points having been reduced over the past few years.

Yes we had to enter and leave the Schengen area via a customs aerodrome. but we have had to do that when travelling from the UK ever since the Schengen agreement was introduced many years ago.

Flying within the Schengen area was very easy all that seemed to be required was a flight plan if you were crossing FIR boundaries. .

Tim H

G-BZTH 	  Quote: 	
		  

On 05 February 2017 at 13:21 JohnFrance <77alembert(at)gmail.com> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "JohnFrance" <77alembert(at)gmail.com>



Dear Europa pilots, France has been in a state of emergency since July 2015 which has been extended until July 2017. This has the effect that the Schengen agreement is no longer in force for cross border aircraft travel and all flights to and from France need to go through an "airport of entry".

 Make sure you have up-to-date information about airports of entry as the number has been reduced over the last 12 months due to government cuts.

Once you are here though it is an easy system to navigate in and the ATC controllers speak good English and are generally very helpful. 

Regards 

John



--------

Europa mono Nr 192





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Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Hi John,

There is still a lot of confusion about cross border flights following the state of emergency in France. It seems that some Prefects use the power provided by the state of emergency to take some stupid decisions, applicable locally, regarding cross border flights. For example at Colmar (LFGA) there is a NOTAM which says you must contact customs 24 hours in advance for ANY cross border flight; so obviously this includes intra Schengen flights. This sort of NOTAMs have been issued for a few other custom airfields around the country but I am not aware of the publication of a Sup AIP or any other document from the french authorities which requires all intra Schengen flights to start from or arrive at one of those custom airports. So if you start from or arrive at an airport which does not show this sort of crazy NOTAM, you are good to go.

John, if you know of an official document which states otherwise, please let us know, that would be very helpful.

Best regards

Remi



<<<<<<Schengen>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Roland, Am in Austria skiing at present, but will certainly see that this is advertised on the club website  when I return, and will happily talk to anyone wanting any practical help or insight into the difficulties (actually the ease of is more appropriate!) of flying to Germany, etc.  

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ 

  

   

 

On 2017-01-11 09:01, Roland wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>



Hi David and all,



after reply from Jens I'm pleased to let you know, that all Europa-pilots are very welcome at the OUV-summer meeting, which will take place at



Bad Dürkheim EDRF from 16th-18th June 2017



Mogas is available at EDRF and no landing fees will be charged on arrival.   



More details will follow (accomodation/camping, restaurants, daytrips....).



So please save the date by now! And David, please advertise also for the club-members.



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914





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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Carl, You may have had most of the answers you need already, but my replies would be: 

1. RT is identical the world over for formal ATC services The only exception to that would be that a very few French  airfields have a published policy of French only, and you need fairly fluent French for those. However 95%+ (?) and  none of the customs airfields are like that so it is most unlikely you will stumble on such an airfield in error. Full details of all french airfields, complete with plates are available on the SIA website (see the club website Flying abroad section) so don't rely on some out of date French Pooleys equivalent! 

2. Yes 

3. Yes, but once you have landed at one you can carry on throughout Shengen at any airfield until you come to leave Schengen when you should again use a customs airfield. Several trips within last year confirm this. Again consult SIA for up to date info. 

4. No only initial port of entry into Schengen. You could incidentally fly right across France without landing and clear customs in Germany or wherever. 

5. English rules apply: You need an FPL if crossing an IFR boundary, or if crossing dangerous terrain, like the Alps. The occasional east europe country may still require one for any flight but certainly not France or Germany. You will find that most  French and German airfields of any consequence will have computer systems or phone in systems where it is easy , and quick so doing it as you go along is straightforward. 

     Currently skiing but happy to talk over any uncertainties when I return. You will find my number in the club mag 

Regards David Joyce, trips coordinator. 

  

   

 

On 2017-02-03 21:44, carlp101 wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "carlp101" <cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com (cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com)>



Well. With or without other Europa pilots I'm planning to come.



I've only familiar with flying in the UK. I have lots of questions. I hope you don't mind.



1. Are there any differences in RT procedures in other counties? 

2. Is the handover procedure between counties in Europe the same as between the UK and France?

3. I assume I have to land at a customs in France before continuing. Is that correct?

4. Do I have to land at customs in each country?

5. How many flight plans do I need to file - one end-to-end plan or one per country?



Perhaps it would be better to chat on the phone? If you email me privately I can send you my contact details.



All the best.

Carl





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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Carl, I meant to,say FIR boundary of course! David 

   

 

On 2017-02-07 16:07, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   

Carl, You may have had most of the answers you need already, but my replies would be: 

1. RT is identical the world over for formal ATC services The only exception to that would be that a very few French  airfields have a published policy of French only, and you need fairly fluent French for those. However 95%+ (?) and  none of the customs airfields are like that so it is most unlikely you will stumble on such an airfield in error. Full details of all french airfields, complete with plates are available on the SIA website (see the club website Flying abroad section) so don't rely on some out of date French Pooleys equivalent! 

2. Yes 

3. Yes, but once you have landed at one you can carry on throughout Shengen at any airfield until you come to leave Schengen when you should again use a customs airfield. Several trips within last year confirm this. Again consult SIA for up to date info. 

4. No only initial port of entry into Schengen. You could incidentally fly right across France without landing and clear customs in Germany or wherever. 

5. English rules apply: You need an FPL if crossing an IFR boundary, or if crossing dangerous terrain, like the Alps. The occasional east europe country may still require one for any flight but certainly not France or Germany. You will find that most  French and German airfields of any consequence will have computer systems or phone in systems where it is easy , and quick so doing it as you go along is straightforward. 

     Currently skiing but happy to talk over any uncertainties when I return. You will find my number in the club mag 

Regards David Joyce, trips coordinator. 

  

   

 

On 2017-02-03 21:44, carlp101 wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "carlp101" <cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com (cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com)>



Well. With or without other Europa pilots I'm planning to come.



I've only familiar with flying in the UK. I have lots of questions. I hope you don't mind.



1. Are there any differences in RT procedures in other counties? 

2. Is the handover procedure between counties in Europe the same as between the UK and France?

3. I assume I have to land at a customs in France before continuing. Is that correct?

4. Do I have to land at customs in each country?

5. How many flight plans do I need to file - one end-to-end plan or one per country?



Perhaps it would be better to chat on the phone? If you email me privately I can send you my contact details.



All the best.

Carl





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Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Hello Carl,



A couple of other things you might like to consider...



You won't hear the same Services Outside Controlled Airspace that you do in the UK (no Basic, Traffic, Deconfliction or Procedural) but if you remember the old system, a Flight Information Service is probably what you'd be most likely to want/need (maybe Radar Information).



http://airspacesafety.com/atsocas/



You can file a FPL online using AFPEx, but it uses Java, so won't work on a Mac. You have to register (need your Licence number etc) and this takes a week or so to turn round - allow time!



https://ts1.flightplanningonline.co.uk/applyingForAnAccount.html



The 24 hr Helpdesk  is excellent:



http://www.myafpex.co.uk/feedback.php



I'm happy to talk you through setting up some favourite "here's one I made earlier" FPLs, so you just choose one off your list, change the date, check & send.



I've attached a simple guide (which I found on a Flyer Forum) - it's pretty good, although the sample GAR is out of date.



Try this for the latest GAR:



https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-aviation-operators-and-pilots-notification-of-flights



Hope this helps,



Paul M



383

XSS Mono 912S

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cakeykev(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Skydemon does it all. Easy, quick and inexpensive. 



Kevin Challis

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 9 Feb 2017, at 19:07, Paul M 383 <europaul383(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hello Carl,

 

 A couple of other things you might like to consider...

 

 You won't hear the same Services Outside Controlled Airspace that you do in the UK (no Basic, Traffic, Deconfliction or Procedural) but if you remember the old system, a Flight Information Service is probably what you'd be most likely to want/need (maybe Radar Information).

 

 http://airspacesafety.com/atsocas/

 

 You can file a FPL online using AFPEx, but it uses Java, so won't work on a Mac. You have to register (need your Licence number etc) and this takes a week or so to turn round - allow time!

 

 https://ts1.flightplanningonline.co.uk/applyingForAnAccount.html

 

 The 24 hr Helpdesk  is excellent:

 

 http://www.myafpex.co.uk/feedback.php

 

 I'm happy to talk you through setting up some favourite "here's one I made earlier" FPLs, so you just choose one off your list, change the date, check & send.

 

 I've attached a simple guide (which I found on a Flyer Forum) - it's pretty good, although the sample GAR is out of date.

 

 Try this for the latest GAR:

 

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-aviation-operators-and-pilots-notification-of-flights

 

 Hope this helps,

 

 Paul M

 

 383

 XSS Mono 912S

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465931#465931

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/why_not_fly_to_france_2016_v44_577.pdf

houlihan(at)blueyonder.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

Hi Kevin.

Pocket FMS / EasyVFR also does it and does it very well , I guess there are others .

Tim 	  Quote: 	
		  

On 09 February 2017 at 19:32 Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin Challis <cakeykev(at)gmail.com>



Skydemon does it all. Easy, quick and inexpensive. 



Kevin Challis

	


>

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

 	  cakeykev(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  Skydemon does it all. Easy, quick and inexpensive. 



Kevin Challis



	




And I have loads of favourite FPLs saved in EasyVFR, but neither of them will make the correct radio call for you tho'...   



"What software do I buy?" wasn't on Carl's list of questions.

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

 	  cakeykev(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  Skydemon does it all. Easy, quick and inexpensive. 



Kevin Challis



	




And I have loads of favourite FPLs saved in EasyVFR, but neither of them will make the correct radio call for you tho'...   



"What software do I buy?" wasn't on Carl's list of questions.



P

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

 	  cakeykev(at)gmail.com wrote: 	
		  Skydemon does it all. Easy, quick and inexpensive. 



Kevin Challis



	




And I have loads of favourite FPLs saved in EasyVFR, neither of them will make the correct radio call for you tho'...   



"What software do I buy?" wasn't on Carl's list of questions.



P

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: Re: Trips 2017 UK/Europe

I use SkyDemon already, so I guess it would be easiest to go with that so I create a flight, produce a flight plan from it and file a wee bit before I go. I'll have to remember to file it early enough to make sure the notice for the GAR is taken into account.



Thanks you all for your help. I'm just waiting for good enough weather at the weekend and I'll fly to Le Touquet first.



Regards

Carl

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