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italianjon
Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 69
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 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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Hi All,
Anyone had the clip fail? I've attached a photo.
Is this:-
1) Safe to fly, in so far as to a mechanic?
2) Can I weld on another clip, or is it a new piece of exhaust pipe?
I have a classic with a Rotax 80Hp fitted, this is the exhaust pipe from Cylinder 2. so: -
3) Can I buy just the first pipe?
4) On the classic this was a Europa specific part from Cylinder 2, am I correct?
Best
Jon
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| Description: |
| ROTAX 912 (80) - Cylinder 2 Downpipe |
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dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:48 am Post subject: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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Jon,
On more than one occasion, I have discovered after landing that I have suffered a spring loss on my Classic exhaust and there has been no side effect, so I would say that so long as there is only one joint effected you can fly like it, although I would not do too much flying in that condition.
As for welding a new clip on, that should be straightforward although you have to find somebody able to weld stainless steel, which shouldn't be a real problem.
As for a replacement pipe, Europa may have one, but failing that CKT Engineering, near Exeter will be able to sort one out for you. They did for me a couple of years ago.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S 2300 hours
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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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Hi Jon
Well it is not the down pipe clip so it should be perfectly ok for a
short trip. I have had several springs fail over the years it has never
caused a problem, even when it was on the down pipe. Is that exhaust
stainless it looks a bit corroded?
Should be easy enough to get a clip welded on, but check with your
inspector if you are UK based. Otherwise, as Dave Watts recommends, CTK
Engineering can provide a replacement pipe, although when I needed one
they wanted the old pipe back and made one to match.
Pete
G-RMAC Classic #109
On 11/02/17 17:13, italianjon wrote:
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dpark748(at)icloud.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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Jon,
I flew back from Spain and on landing back at Sleap i later found three springs broken. ???? Carry spares now!!
Dave Park
| Quote: | On 11 Feb 2017, at 17:41, David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net> wrote:
Jon,
On more than one occasion, I have discovered after landing that I have suffered a spring loss on my Classic exhaust and there has been no side effect, so I would say that so long as there is only one joint effected you can fly like it, although I would not do too much flying in that condition.
As for welding a new clip on, that should be straightforward although you have to find somebody able to weld stainless steel, which shouldn't be a real problem.
As for a replacement pipe, Europa may have one, but failing that CKT Engineering, near Exeter will be able to sort one out for you. They did for me a couple of years ago.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S 2300 hours
> On 11 Feb 2017, at 17:13, italianjon <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Anyone had the clip fail? I've attached a photo.
>
> Is this:-
>
> 1) Safe to fly, in so far as to a mechanic?
> 2) Can I weld on another clip, or is it a new piece of exhaust pipe?
>
> I have a classic with a Rotax 80Hp fitted, this is the exhaust pipe from Cylinder 2. so: -
>
> 3) Can I buy just the first pipe?
> 4) On the classic this was a Europa specific part from Cylinder 2, am I correct?
>
> Best
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466008#466008
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_912_80__cylinder_2_downpipe_160.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
|
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italianjon
Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: Re: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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Thanks all.
I noticed this at the end of a long day trying to resurrect the PV50 (other post). Because it was at the end of quite a long day, it really annoyed me, but it seems like it is simple to fix.
I'll see on Monday, if anyone at work knows a local person to weld stainless... otherwise I'll speak to Karen/CKT and go from there.
I must admit I am not sure of the material. I think it's the original pipe. I'll check with the previous owner/builder as I purchased my Europa.
Best
Jon
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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:02 am Post subject: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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Just a note.
Following up on my last post on Exhaust Leaks.
Muffler and down pipe movement cause exhaust leaks, exhaust jets weaken the springs, and failures result. This is especially true for the 912S and it's exhaust system.
Over the last 10 years I have found spring failure on the exhaust is significantly reduced by buying stainless springs that won't corrode, run safety wire through the center to prevent FOD or dropped object or other interference from spring parts plus holds the exhaust on. Also, I find coating one side of the spring with a bead of silicone RTV reduces vibration harmonics.
CKT has changed their subcontractor as tooling marks were made on the springs causing premature failure which reduced failures significantly. Karen should have these springs in stock also.
Regards to all,
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Feb 11, 2017 1:20 PM, david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com>
Jon,
I flew back from Spain and on landing back at Sleap i later found three springs broken. ???? Carry spares now!!
Dave Park
> On 11 Feb 2017, at 17:41, David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net> wrote:
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net>
>
> Jon,
>
> On more than one occasion, I have discovered after landing that I have suffered a spring loss on my Classic exhaust and there has been no side effect, so I would say that so long as there is only one joint effected you can fly like it, although I would not do too much flying in that condition.
>
> As for welding a new clip on, that should be straightforward although you have to find somebody able to weld stainless steel, which shouldn't be a real problem.
>
> As for a replacement pipe, Europa may have one, but failing that CKT Engineering, near Exeter will be able to sort one out for you. They did for me a couple of years ago.
>
> Dave Watts
> G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S 2300 hours
>
>> On 11 Feb 2017, at 17:13, italianjon <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anyone had the clip fail? I've attached a photo.
>>
>> Is this:-
>>
>> 1) Safe to fly, in so far as to a mechanic?
>> 2) Can I weld on another clip, or is it a new piece of exhaust pipe?
>>
>> I have a classic with a Rotax 80Hp fitted, this is the exhaust pipe from Cylinder 2. so: -
>>
>> 3) Can I buy just the first pipe?
>> 4) On the classic this was a Europa specific part from Cylinder 2, am I correct?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466008#466008
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_912_80__cylinder_2_downpipe_160.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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===========
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p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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dpark748(at)icloud.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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On older pipes with upturned hooks you need 95mm springs available from CKT not sure if Europa has these?
Regards
Dave Park
On 13 Feb 2017, at 15:01, Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Just a note.
Following up on my last post on Exhaust Leaks.
Muffler and down pipe movement cause exhaust leaks, exhaust jets weaken the springs, and failures result. This is especially true for the 912S and it's exhaust system.
Over the last 10 years I have found spring failure on the exhaust is significantly reduced by buying stainless springs that won't corrode, run safety wire through the center to prevent FOD or dropped object or other interference from spring parts plus holds the exhaust on. Also, I find coating one side of the spring with a bead of silicone RTV reduces vibration harmonics.
CKT has changed their subcontractor as tooling marks were made on the springs causing premature failure which reduced failures significantly. Karen should have these springs in stock also.
Regards to all,
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Feb 11, 2017 1:20 PM, david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com (dpark748(at)icloud.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: david park <dpark748(at)icloud.com (dpark748(at)icloud.com)>
Jon,
I flew back from Spain and on landing back at Sleap i later found three springs broken. ???? Carry spares now!!
Dave Park
> On 11 Feb 2017, at 17:41, David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net (dg.watts(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: David Watts <dg.watts(at)talktalk.net (dg.watts(at)talktalk.net)>
>
> Jon,
>
> On more than one occasion, I have discovered after landing that I have suffered a spring loss on my Classic exhaust and there has been no side effect, so I would say that so long as there is only one joint effected you can fly like it, although I would not do too much flying in that condition.
>
> As for welding a new clip on, that should be straightforward although you have to find somebody able to weld stainless steel, which shouldn't be a real problem.
>
> As for a replacement pipe, Europa may have one, but failing that CKT Engineering, near Exeter will be able to sort one out for you. They did for me a couple of years ago.
>
> Dave Watts
> G-BXDY Classic Mono 912S 2300 hours
>
>> On 11 Feb 2017, at 17:13, italianjon <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "italianjon" <jon.catilli(at)gmail.com (jon.catilli(at)gmail.com)>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Anyone had the clip fail? I've attached a photo.
>>
>> Is this:-
>>
>> 1) Safe to fly, in so far as to a mechanic?
>> 2) Can I weld on another clip, or is it a new piece of exhaust pipe?
>>
>> I have a classic with a Rotax 80Hp fitted, this is the exhaust pipe from Cylinder 2. so: -
>>
>> 3) Can I buy just the first pipe?
>> 4) On the classic this was a Europa specific part from Cylinder 2, am I correct?
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=466008#466008
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Attachments:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com//files/rotax_912_80__cylinder_2_downpipe_160.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
st Email Forum -
pa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
===========
p; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
ums.matronics.com
===========
p; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
matronics.com
===========
p; - List Contribution Web Site -
p; -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
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italianjon
Joined: 05 Aug 2015
Posts: 69
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: Re: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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|
Hi All,
Thanks for the replies. I have confirmed that the exhaust material is not stainless it's standard steel, so this should make the welding of a new clip easier.
Bud, I like your suggestion to wire through the middle. I have previously wired the clips to act as a backup to the springs, but if I had gone through the middle, then when the clip failed I would not have lost the spring. I can only assume it bounced around the engine and then fell out of the bottom. It must have been during the last flight, as there was no spring on the apron.
The answers here have reassured me that I can fly it to my mechanic, at least. And get him to weld a new clip on.
Regards
Jon
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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clivesutton
Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:02 am Post subject: Re: Rotax 912 Exhaust Spring Clip Faliure... |
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If i may chip in with my two-pennarth re: exhaust spring failures, my learning from a string of failures over about 200hrs was 1) always use the newer stainless new springs 2) insert a suitable piece of silicone rubber tubing down the spring and hold in place with high-temp RTV - to increase damping/reduce vibration 3) run wirelock down through this tube to retain the spring if it does break [as Buds advice] and 4) avoid installing or removing springs by levering the 'hook' on or off using a screwdriver - this action can damage the surface of the inside of the hook and initiate fatigue cracking. Much easier to use a length of wire-locking wire (perhaps 200mm) with a loop formed at both ends (one over the spring 'hook' and the other on the shaft of a screwdriver) to provide a means of extending the spring and installing/removing it
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