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Hard Starting CJ

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JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:37 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

We have operated 6 different HS6As over the years and this one is by far the hardest to start, when ambient temperatures are below 15Â°C or so



Primer: the little 'atomizer' on supercharger inlet may be blocked/missing



Shower of sparks: it works, at least, as with magnetos at 0 the engine will still fire. Could it be weak though? In need of overhaul perhaps?



Carb: I don't know?! My instincts are it is not this as once it is running and warm everything is fine



Battery: Tests above 28 volts



Anyone have any other suggestions?

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:15 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Regarding the shower of sparks, I have seen this problem many times over 

the years where either an M14 or Huosai engine has become difficult to 

start. One of the things I would definitely try is testing thestarting 

coil/shower of sparksthis way and applies to both the Huosai and M14 

engines.  You will need another person to help you with this:

1 - Make sure the main air valve is off

2 - Deplete the air in the pneumatic system FORWARD of the main air 

valve by squeezing the brake handle until you can no longer hear the 

"swoosh" sound when you release the brake handle.

3 - With the mags off, remove the mag cover from the left mag.  Then 

remove the starting coil wire from the distributor cap by loosening the 

staking screw on the underside of the cap closest to the center of the 

distributor cap.  Now gently pull out the starting coil wire.

4 - Next, have the person assisting you hold the starting coil wire with 

a pair of _insulated pliers_ with the end of thewire about 1/2"-3/8" 

away from any metal on the engine.

5 - In the cockpit, turn on the BATTERY and IGNITION switches and press 

the START BUTTON. The engine will not rotate because you have depleted 

the air in the systemthat would normally be injected into the air start 

distributor and air injectors. Observe the spark from the starting coil 

wire between the end of the wire and the metal/ground. It should 

normally jump about 3/8-1/2". If it does notand you have to move the 

wire closer to ground to get the spark to jump to ground, remove the 

starting coil wire from starting coil and pull the wire out of its loom. 

This wire is a 7mm twisted, metal core wire.  You can sometimes find a 

suitable length of 7 mm wire at a local small engine shop (lawn mower 

and lawn tractor repair shop) or you can order it on-line at 

http://www.mfgsupply.com/24-8775.html. Many times the original rubber 

wire cover becomes brittle and cracks and thus arcs to ground inside of 

the braided shield. If it arcs to ground inside the shield, then 

obviously the spark from the starting coil will not reach the 

distributor cap, rotor or spark plugs.

6 - Lastly, you can also open up the cover on the starting coil and find 

the points. Sometimes these points willbuild a mound on one side. This 

mound can be removed with a point file. There is also a small thumb 

wheel which adjusts the pointgap for the maximum spark. You canadjust 

for max spark while one person holds the starting coil wire close to 

ground and turns the thumb wheel (you can do this on the CJ, but not the 

52 because of the starting coil's location) and the other person in the 

cockpit is pressing the START button, just like when you were testing 

it. To accomplish this on the 52, one must remove the starting coil 

"box" from the back side of the firewall andperform the adjustment of 

the points on the bench. You will need a 24V battery on the bench to 

test the starting coil. No other way to do iton the 52.



Hope this helps. MOST IMPORTANTLY, be certain to deplete the air in the 

system with the main air valve off BEFORE you press the START button to 

prevent any rotation of the engine/propeller.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 8/15/2016 6:37 AM, JL2A wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 We have operated 6 different HS6As over the years and this one is by far the hardest to start, when ambient temperatures are below 15Â°C or so



 Primer: the little 'atomizer' on supercharger inlet may be blocked/missing



 Shower of sparks: it works, at least, as with magnetos at 0 the engine will still fire. Could it be weak though? In need of overhaul perhaps?



 Carb: I don't know?! My instincts are it is not this as once it is running and warm everything is fine



 Battery: Tests above 28 volts



 Anyone have any other suggestions?





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459506#459506

draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:58 pm Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

This may not be the culprit, but it certainly wouldn't hurt to give the

spark plugs a thorough inspection & cleaning.

Again, not likely to be the main culprit, but I've found it a relatively

easy chore and freshly cleaned plugs will only help.



My 2 cents worth,



Justin

N280NC



On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 5:14 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <

dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>



 Regarding the shower of sparks, I have seen this problem many times over

 the years where either an M14 or Huosai engine has become difficult to

 start. One of the things I would definitely try is testing thestarting

 coil/shower of sparksthis way and applies to both the Huosai and M14

 engines.  You will need another person to help you with this:

 1 - Make sure the main air valve is off

 2 - Deplete the air in the pneumatic system FORWARD of the main air valve

 by squeezing the brake handle until you can no longer hear the "swoosh"

 sound when you release the brake handle.

 3 - With the mags off, remove the mag cover from the left mag.  Then

 remove the starting coil wire from the distributor cap by loosening the

 staking screw on the underside of the cap closest to the center of the

 distributor cap.  Now gently pull out the starting coil wire.

 4 - Next, have the person assisting you hold the starting coil wire with a

 pair of _insulated pliers_ with the end of thewire about 1/2"-3/8" away

 from any metal on the engine.

 5 - In the cockpit, turn on the BATTERY and IGNITION switches and press

 the START BUTTON. The engine will not rotate because you have depleted the

 air in the systemthat would normally be injected into the air start

 distributor and air injectors. Observe the spark from the starting coil

 wire between the end of the wire and the metal/ground. It should normally

 jump about 3/8-1/2". If it does notand you have to move the wire closer to

 ground to get the spark to jump to ground, remove the starting coil wire

 from starting coil and pull the wire out of its loom. This wire is a 7mm

 twisted, metal core wire.  You can sometimes find a suitable length of 7 mm

 wire at a local small engine shop (lawn mower and lawn tractor repair shop)

 or you can order it on-line at http://www.mfgsupply.com/24-8775.html.

 Many times the original rubber wire cover becomes brittle and cracks and

 thus arcs to ground inside of the braided shield. If it arcs to ground

 inside the shield, then obviously the spark from the starting coil will not

 reach the distributor cap, rotor or spark plugs.

 6 - Lastly, you can also open up the cover on the starting coil and find

 the points. Sometimes these points willbuild a mound on one side. This

 mound can be removed with a point file. There is also a small thumb wheel

 which adjusts the pointgap for the maximum spark. You canadjust for max

 spark while one person holds the starting coil wire close to ground and

 turns the thumb wheel (you can do this on the CJ, but not the 52 because of

 the starting coil's location) and the other person in the cockpit is

 pressing the START button, just like when you were testing it. To

 accomplish this on the 52, one must remove the starting coil "box" from the

 back side of the firewall andperform the adjustment of the points on the

 bench. You will need a 24V battery on the bench to test the starting coil

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ

Thanks Dennis, tested the starting coil and very strong spark, both from end of lead and then tested it installed in cap. All good.



Plugs are brand new.



Will start on the fuel side... primer system first

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:34 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

The attachment kicked the email back.  I will send it directly to your email address.

Dennis



      

----- Forwarded Message -----

 From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 7:20 AM

 Subject: Re: Re: Hard Starting CJ

  

 

That's good.



When you check the primer lines, be sure to check the hose from the firewall to the 90 degree standoff mounted on the #2 cylinder intake tube.  I have seen many of them deteriorated and cracked and actually leaking fuel when the primer is depressed.  VERY dangerous!  Especially with a hot engine.  As you probably know, there is a hard line from the 90 degree stand-off on the #2 cylinder intake tube to the primer input into the super charger section.  I have seen the male end on the super charger (where the B nut attaches) corroded and blocking the inlet.  So check it out that way.



The other thing that many people with hard starting M14's our Huosai engines don't think about is the position of the rotor finger when the engine is suppose to fire.  As you know, the leading finger on the rotor fires each plug under normal operation.  The trailing finger is the starting coil finger.  Using your magneto timing box, connect one side of it to the left mag points just like you would do when you are timing the mag.  Now pull the prop through until reaching TDC on #4 cylinder.  Next, turn the prop backwards about 30-40 degrees and then bring it forward until the timing box buzzes or beeps or whatever your timing box is suppose to do when the points open.  Now look at the position of the leading finger on the rotor.  It should be pointing DIRECTLY at the scribe mark on the flat surface of the mag just past the high voltage stick in the counter clockwise direction.  I'm including a drawing which point out where this is if you having paid attention to it in the past.  I use a 6" metal ruler and place it between the center of the rotor, over the leading finger and then look to see if it is 100% in line with the scribe mark.  If it is not, loosen the 3 screws holding the rotor and position it so the finger is directly in line with the scribe mark.  Tighten the screws.  Be sure to look directly down on the ruler or straight edge and not from the side to line up the 3 points mentioned.



What you are doing is making certain the fingers on the rotor are positioned so when the mag fires the finger is directly in line with the contact point in the magneto distributor cap.  Also another thing to check is the starting coil finger length.  If it looks short and too stubby, it may not be close enough to the contact point in the cap.  Any air gap adds resistance to the circuit and thus reduces the voltage that ultimately will get to the spark plug.  Believe it or not, this simple adjustment is VERY important to proper operation of the magneto for both the starting and running.



Dennis

       From: JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au> To: yak-list(at)matronics.com  Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 3:57 AM Subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ  

 --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>Thanks Dennis, tested the starting coil and very strong spark, both from end of lead and then tested it installed in cap. All good.Plugs are brand new.Will start on the fuel side... primer system firstRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459540#459540http://forums.matronics.com[/url]htt                     -Mat16_0_ym19_1_1471343184948_15460" rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics========================

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:55 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Anatole,When it does start does it idle smoothly? Â 

On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 12:57 AM, JL2A <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 Thanks Dennis, tested the starting coil and very strong spark, both from end of lead and then tested it installed in cap. All good.

 

 Plugs are brand new.

 

 Will start on the fuel side... primer system first

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459540#459540

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Lancer

Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Posts: 30
Location: Cairns, Australia

Posted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ

A couple of things I have found with the HS6 engine re hard starting....



Primer atomizer nozzle blocked.......There are 4 small drillings inside the nozzle which can and do become blocked over time. It's a bitch to remove but could very well be the culprit. I have seen some engines refuse to start without 30 odd pumps of the primer which is a good indicator that the fuel isn't getting through.



Ignition timing out.......It's a bit more involved to check and set but if it is out then this could very well be your culprit. I have checked a few engines and every one I have checked have been out.....Some WAY off so it pays to check!!  Once the timing was correctly set they are a totally different engine!!



Call me if you need to



Regards,



Lance

_________________
You can run but you can't hide

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:45 am Post subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ

Thanks Dennis I'll check it out. When you say 'starting coil finger length' you mean the finger on the rotor? What is normal & undesirable length?



Hi Doug, yes it's ops normal once started. I suspect fuel primer atomizer as I've had this before but will check magneto finger position while I'm at it.



Yep - we have found the same as you Lance, some pretty wild timing out there. I've seen a HS6 static timed to 17Â° btdc (propeller) - it still ran smooth! Prob a bit hot though

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 3:41 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Yes, the finger on the rotor.  I really don't know what the "normal" 

length is. Maybe Doug Sapp could measure the length of the fingers on a 

new rotor and post it to the List for us.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 8/17/2016 5:45 AM, JL2A wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Dennis I'll check it out. When you say 'starting coil finger length' you mean the finger on the rotor? What is normal & undesirable length?



 Hi Doug, yes it's ops normal once started. I suspect fuel primer atomizer as I've had this before but will check magneto finger position while I'm at it.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459573#459573

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Rotor fingers:One extends 3.87mm out of the porcelain.

The other 2.97mm.Â 

This is a new unused rotor.

Doug

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:41 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Yes, the finger on the rotor.Â  I really don't know what the "normal" length is. Maybe Doug Sapp could measure the length of the fingers on a new rotor and post it to the List for us.

 Dennis

 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 [url=tel:334-546-8182]334-546-8182[/url]Â (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1

 

 On 8/17/2016 5:45 AM, JL2A wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 Thanks Dennis I'll check it out. When you say 'starting coil finger length' you mean the finger on the rotor? What is normal & undesirable length?

 

 Hi Doug, yes it's ops normal once started. I suspect fuel primer atomizer as I've had this before but will check magneto finger position while I'm at it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=459573#459573

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:23 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Doug,

Do you remember which finger was the longer 3.87mm?  If you can reference it by pointing the two rotors up (north), then left or right, that would be a great help.

Thanks so much.

Dennis



       From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:34 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: Hard Starting CJ

  

 

Rotor fingers:One extends 3.87mm out of the porcelain.

The other 2.97mm. 

This is a new unused rotor.

Doug

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:41 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Yes, the finger on the rotor.  I really don't know what the "normal" length is. Maybe Doug Sapp could measure the length of the fingers on a new rotor and post it to the List for us.

 Dennis

 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 [url=]334-546-8182[/url] (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1

 

 On 8/17/2016 5:45 AM, JL2A wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 Thanks Dennis I'll check it out. When you say 'starting coil finger length' you mean the finger on the rotor? What is normal & undesirable length?

 

 Hi Doug, yes it's ops normal once started. I suspect fuel primer atomizer as I've had this before but will check magneto finger position while I'm at it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/vi ewtopic.php?p=459573#459573

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

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 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Yak-List

 ==== ============================== ==

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 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ==== ============================== ==

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contr ibution

 ==== ============================== ==

dougsappllc(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:14 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Dennis and all,The CJ rotor has one finger which is embedded in white porcelain, the other isÂ embeddedÂ in the redÂ Bakelite.Â  If finger up, the finger on the left is the longest (at)3.87 protruding out of the porcelain.

On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:22 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Doug,

Do you remember which finger was the longer 3.87mm?Â  If you can reference it by pointing the two rotors up (north), then left or right, that would be a great help.

Thanks so much.

Dennis



       From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:34 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: Hard Starting CJ

  

 

Rotor fingers:One extends 3.87mm out of the porcelain.

The other 2.97mm.Â 

This is a new unused rotor.

Doug

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:41 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>

 

 Yes, the finger on the rotor.Â  I really don't know what the "normal" length is. Maybe Doug Sapp could measure the length of the fingers on a new rotor and post it to the List for us.

 Dennis

 

 A. Dennis Savarese

 334-546-8182Â (mobile)

 www.yak-52.com

 Skype - Yakguy1

 

 On 8/17/2016 5:45 AM, JL2A wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Yak-List message posted by: "JL2A" <info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>

 

 Thanks Dennis I'll check it out. When you say 'starting coil finger length' you mean the finger on the rotor? What is normal & undesirable length?

 

 Hi Doug, yes it's ops normal once started. I suspect fuel primer atomizer as I've had this before but will check magneto finger position while I'm at it.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/vi ewtopic.php?p=459573#459573

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 	
 

 

 ==== ============================== ==

 List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navig ator?Yak-List

 ==== ============================== ==

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ==== ============================== ==

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ==== ============================== ==

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contr ibution

 ==== ============================== ==

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:25 am Post subject: Hard Starting CJ

Thanks Doug.

Dennis



       From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2016 11:13 AM

 Subject: Re: Re: Hard Starting CJ

  

 

Dennis and all,The CJ rotor has one finger which is embedded in white porcelain, the other is embedded in the red Bakelite.  If finger up, the finger on the left is the longest (at)3.87 protruding out of the porcelain.



On Thu, Aug 18, 2016 at 4:22 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Doug,

Do you remember which finger was the longer 3.87mm?  If you can reference it by pointing the two rotors up (north), then left or right, that would be a great help.

Thanks so much.

Dennis

       From: doug sapp <dougsappllc(at)gmail.com (dougsappllc(at)gmail.com)> To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)  Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2016 8:34 PM Subject: Re: Re: Hard Starting CJ  

 Rotor fingers:One extends 3.87mm out of the porcelain.

The other 2.97mm. 



This is a new unused rotor.



Doug



On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 4:41 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>  Yes, the finger on the rotor.  I really don't know what the "normal" length is. Maybe Doug Sapp could measure the length of the fingers on a new rotor and post it to the List for us. Dennis  A. Dennis Savarese info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au (info(at)flyingwarbirds.com.au)>  Thanks Dennis I'll check it out. When you say 'starting coil finger length' you mean the finger on the rotor? What is normal & undesirable length?  Hi Doug, yes it's ops normal once started. I suspect fuel primer atomizer as I've had this before but will check magneto finger position while I'm at it.     Read this topic online here:  http://forums.matronics.com/vi ewtopic.php?p=459573#459573            	
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[/quote]

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ

I forgot to thank all that contributed to this post!



It was a blocked primer nozzle. Stupidly I have had this before years ago and figured it out straight away.. this time it was an 'overhauled' engine, so I didn't even think of this being the culprit again.



Starts beautifully, even on 20atm!



Cheers



Anatole

Harv

Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 12:48 pm Post subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ

Glad you sorted it out.



For ref could you post a pic of where the primer nozzle is located, this is something I'd like to check as I'm sure other will also.



Cheers

JL2A

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 113
Location: Australia

Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: Re: Hard Starting CJ

I don't have a pic right now but look at the top of the engine, between the intake manifolds there will be a line coming out - stock is a rigid yellow line but some have been replaced by flexible hose. Not to be confused by the manifold pressure line, which is flexible hose all the way.. not sure if this helps! Will try and get pic

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