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jack(at)comconn.com
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 Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:40 am Post subject: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting |
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| Quote: | Time: 09:19:48 AM PST US
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/31/17
Jack, The main difference between the Avid and Kitfox that I see is with
the 582 the Avid designer somehow got confused and mounted the engine
upside down?
I looked at a stretched Avid project, but I have too many projects and it
was 1/2 way across the country.
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| Quote: | Pat Reilly
Mod 3 o582
Rockford, IL
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The Avid designer (Dean Wilson) was all about performance- by mounting the engine upside down,
he was able to use the (tuned) stock exhaust system.
The Avid designer's business partner, Dan Denney, didn't like the looks of the installation,
so he modified the exhaust (and little else) when he started his own company to make it fit under
the cowl, which cost about 10% of the horsepower. When both companies were still
around, the Avid guys guaranteed that their aircraft with the same engines were faster.
The Kitfox had better marketing, the models were better defined and the
bump cowl gave it a distinctive look.
Avid's owner/designer was more into designing different aircraft- like
the magnum, and the amphibian. And don't forget
the wilson global explorer (which was designed to carry an avid
flyer inside)! The stretched version of
the MK IV was done by John Larsen, and later marketed as the airedale.
Oddly- one of the quirks I'm fighting in my Catalina is the engine
mounted.. upside down.
At the time the mount was designed (1992, by a now defunct distributor
of Hirth engines),
their theory was that having the carbs on the bottom was safer, as any
fuel leaks could not fall
on the exhaust system and catch fire. It makes it a lot harder to tune
the normally side or
down draft carbs.. and forget priming! (I figure that distributor once
had a Fiat 850.. the fuel
pump was mounted above the muffler, inside the arch of the exhaust
headers. You don't
see many old Fiat 850s .)
-Jack
Fisher Super Koala, Hirth 2704 (danged dillo burrow)
Kitfox 1, 582 (sold)
Avid MK IV, Jabiru 2200 (sold)
Avid Catalina, Hirth F30 (flying)
Osprey II, Lyc O320 (50%?)
trivia: If you look at an Amphibian or Catalina, the nose dock bumper
is a (Wilson) basketball.
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting |
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Jack, Thanks for the info. Good stuff! What else do you know about the stretched models running o200 o230's. I guess one could go with the Mod V and up Kitfoxes. But the stretched Fox or Avid looks interesting. I also saw 2 Avid Magnums advertised for sale somewhere here in the Midwest a few months back.
Pat Reilly
Rockford, IL
On Sun, Apr 2, 2017 at 10:38 AM, Jack Bell <jack(at)comconn.com (jack(at)comconn.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Jack Bell <jack(at)comconn.com (jack(at)comconn.com)>
| Quote: | Time: 09:19:48 AM PST US
From: Patrick Reilly <patreilly43(at)gmail.com (patreilly43(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: Kitfox-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 03/31/17
Jack, The main difference between the Avid and Kitfox that I see is with
the 582 the Avid designer somehow got confused and mounted the engine
upside down?
I looked at a stretched Avid project, but I have too many projects and it
was 1/2 way across the country.
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 o582
Rockford, IL
|
The Avid designer (Dean Wilson) was all about performance- by mounting the engine upside down,
he was able to use the (tuned) stock exhaust system.
The Avid designer's business partner, Dan Denney, didn't like the looks of the installation,
so he modified the exhaust (and little else) when he started his own company to make it fit under
the cowl, which cost about 10% of the horsepower. When both companies were still
around, the Avid guys guaranteed that their aircraft with the same engines were faster.
The Kitfox had better marketing, the models were better defined and the bump cowl gave it a distinctive look.
Avid's owner/designer was more into designing different aircraft- like the magnum, and the amphibian. And don't forget
the wilson global explorer (which was designed to carry an avid flyer inside)! The stretched version of
the MK IV was done by John Larsen, and later marketed as the airedale.
Oddly- one of the quirks I'm fighting in my Catalina is the engine mounted.. upside down.
At the time the mount was designed (1992, by a now defunct distributor of Hirth engines),
their theory was that having the carbs on the bottom was safer, as any fuel leaks could not fall
on the exhaust system and catch fire. It makes it a lot harder to tune the normally side or
down draft carbs.. and forget priming! (I figure that distributor once had a Fiat 850.. the fuel
pump was mounted above the muffler, inside the arch of the exhaust headers. You don't
see many old Fiat 850s .)
-Jack
Fisher Super Koala, Hirth 2704 (danged dillo burrow)
Kitfox 1, 582 (sold)
Avid MK IV, Jabiru 2200 (sold)
Avid Catalina, Hirth F30 (flying)
Osprey II, Lyc O320 (50%?)
trivia: If you look at an Amphibian or Catalina, the nose dock bumper is a (Wilson) basketball.
====================================
ox-List" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
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FORUMS -
_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://forums.matronics.com
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WIKI -
lank" rel="noreferrer">http://wiki.matronics.com
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b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
target="_blank" rel="noreferrer">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
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--
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuilt
W10 0290 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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michaelgibbs(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2017 8:52 pm Post subject: kitfox vs avid 582 mounting |
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Jack's assessment is pretty much what my dad and I concluded back in 1991 after visiting both factories and flying with pilots from each. Avid was working on many different products and Denney was refining their single product line.
That's not a value judgement, there's merit in both pursuits.
Mike G.
Phoenix, AZ
Kitfox Series 7
| Quote: | On Apr 2, 2017, at 8:38 AM, Jack Bell <jack(at)comconn.com> wrote:
The Kitfox had better marketing, the models were better defined and the bump cowl gave it a distinctive look. Avid's owner/designer was more into designing different aircraft- like the magnum, and the amphibian. And don't forget the wilson global explorer (which was designed to carry an avid flyer inside)!
|
| | - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
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