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Battery charger/minder/tender

 
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Ed Godfrey



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:25 pm    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the
Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my
Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A
model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a
suitable replacement? Thanks.

Ed Godfrey


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2752

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I have since switched to the BatteryMinder Odyssey specific charger.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s3-12v-8-amp-hawker-odyssey-gill-lt-7000-series-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-desulfator/
I wanted to make sure to use a real recommended odyssey charger.
I'm sure the other ones can do the job. I just felt better with this one knowing it was actually made for that type of battery, and it would be set to the right mode automatically if the power went out and came back on.
Tim

On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)>

I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.

Ed Godfrey<==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution[/url]



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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1527
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do
not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery
whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM
switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no
leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
or
https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
There are several unnecessary risks.

On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
Quote:


I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the
Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my
Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A
model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a
suitable replacement? Thanks.

Ed Godfrey





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Kelly McMullen
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KCHD
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gengrumpy



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Tullahoma, TN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:25 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I have been using a Battery Minder for Odyssey batteries for years and, based on several articles in Consumer Aviation and Light Plane Mechanic, I leave mine plugged in all the time. These chargers are designed to stay connected all the time and have extended the life of my Odyssey’s by years - plus I always have a fully charged (deep cycle charge) battery when I fly.

I used to leave a Battery Tender on them, but switched based on the articles above.

grumpy
N184JM

Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:45 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:



The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
or
https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
There are several unnecessary risks.



On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>
> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
> Ed Godfrey





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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1527
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:47 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I hear the claims, I see no data to support the claims, just anecdotes.
How would one know if you have extended the life of the battery? I read
the same publications. While the device made some sense for wet acid
batteries that will self discharge fairly rapidly, especially in hot
weather; I've not seen any hard data that they do anything meaningful
for AGM batteries. I'm close to 3 years on my Odyssey right now. That is
the average life of wet acid batteries in Aridzona, give or take 6
months. My Odyssey is going strong without a BatteryMinder.
The self discharge rate is one tenth that of wet acid for starters.
Then there is the issue of fire safety. What protects that charger from
catching on fire if an internal component fails. I'm sure the battery
minder is well built, however there is a lot of evidence that battery
chargers have been the cause of fires when something in the charger
failed or overheated.
I also note their operating temperature range is only +33 to 130
degrees. Both those temps are easily exceeded here in Aridzona.
I don't see BatteryMinder offering any warranty coverage against
resultant damage if it fails while unattended.
They only warrant to repair the unit for 5 years, nothing more.
I see 90% marketing hype and 10% useful technology. Another way to
reduce your budget for avgas.
JMHO having lived with wet acid batteries for 30 years, 25 of which were
on ramp with no power available and temps down to -60.
On 12/7/2017 5:24 AM, John Miller wrote:
Quote:


I have been using a Battery Minder for Odyssey batteries for years and, based on several articles in Consumer Aviation and Light Plane Mechanic, I leave mine plugged in all the time. These chargers are designed to stay connected all the time and have extended the life of my Odyssey’s by years - plus I always have a fully charged (deep cycle charge) battery when I fly.

I used to leave a Battery Tender on them, but switched based on the articles above.

grumpy
N184JM




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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:23 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

Just to add to the discussion. I have used a battery tender on and off. If I power the airplane on the ground, I put it on and leave it on until the next time I am at the airport. My 925 is over 10 years old, I have been flying 9 years and 8 months. Battery still going strong. I had it tested two years ago and it tested great. I may test it again this cycle, it is getting old.

I have a backup 680 in the airplane, so it is not as critical to me. I can operate off the 680 if need be.

So, my experience has been great with the 925. I would say I have had it on the tender 25% of the time. But, I do not think I have ever let the battery sit discharged.

Rene'
801-721-6080

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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2752

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

Similar to Rene', I don't generally use mine all time time, but if I
have been using power on the ground, like when I do database updates
and things like that, I will plug it in. Sometimes I do before a long
trip as well. I probably use mine a dozen times a year.
(The BatteryMinder) Prior to reading Aviation Consumer I was
using that Schumacher charger. The chargers that Kelly
linked to I believe are probably built by Schumacher, because they
look just like my original 2500. Really I think the difference
in some that are odyssey specific vs a cheaper charger that
has an AGM option, is that the Odyssey ones will only charge
at AGM levels. I didn't want to lose power and have the charger
reset its settings. My schumachers default to lead acid settings.
The charge curve on an Odyssey specific charger would probably
be more in tune with what Odyssey recommends, also. To me, if
a product is $125, or $1750, it's really doesn't matter...once
you reach a certain threshold I just figure you may as well
spend the money on one that will do a good job. I don't know
why the Minders are $239-ish now...I think I paid more like $170.

Kelly's point is valid though. If you don't have any load on
the battery (i.e. no parasitics) there's no reason that the
Odyssey will self discharge fast enough to worry about it.
If you aren't going to fly for a year, just go and charge
it maybe before you fly.

Also, I know my alternator doesn't put out a high enough voltage
(14.5-7?) to charge the Odyssey to 100%, so I do like to hook
it up a couple times in the winter and after doing database
updates. I leave it plugged in a day or three until I come back
to the hangar. Other than that, I don't leave it plugged
in all the time.

I still change my battery out within 5 years. I could
test it and not swap it, but I generally have found a use
for the battery anyway. Last time I needed one for a
tug, so I used that opportunity to buy a new one for
the plane. I'm probably due for one next year, if I want
to stay on a 5-6 year plan.

Tim

On 12/7/2017 9:22 AM, Rene wrote:
[quote]

Just to add to the discussion. I have used a battery tender on and off. If I power the airplane on the ground, I put it on and leave it on until the next time I am at the airport. My 925 is over 10 years old, I have been flying 9 years and 8 months. Battery still going strong. I had it tested two years ago and it tested great. I may test it again this cycle, it is getting old.

I have a backup 680 in the airplane, so it is not as critical to me. I can operate off the 680 if need be.

So, my experience has been great with the 925. I would say I have had it on the tender 25% of the time. But, I do not think I have ever let the battery sit discharged.

Rene'
801-721-6080

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I have been using this charger on all my vehicles and Odessey Batt. Works fantastic.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FQBWCY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Do not archive.[img]cid:AE7045B5-F16F-429A-9A63-F6C6B1880499[/img]
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:36 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:

I have since switched to the BatteryMinder Odyssey specific charger.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s3-12v-8-amp-hawker-odyssey-gill-lt-7000-series-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-desulfator/

I wanted to make sure to use a real recommended odyssey charger.

I'm sure the other ones can do the job. I just felt better with this one knowing it was actually made for that type of battery, and it would be set to the right mode automatically if the power went out and came back on.

Tim
On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)>I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.Ed Godfrey<==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhttp://forums.matr===========================nbsp;--> http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution




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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2752

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

Funny you should list that one Rob.

I bought 2 of those for at home. Used one to recharge my
Odyssey in the RV-14 while I was building it and testing the
panel. It is a really nice charger. I liked it so much that
I bought another to keep on my truck all winter as I've
had the battery drain on me 4 times now.

These are pretty nice chargers and if you're on a budget,
I'd say they would work good for your odyssey also.
Tim
On 12/7/2017 11:46 AM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
Quote:
I have been using this charger on all my vehicles and Odessey Batt.
Works fantastic.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FQBWCY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Do not archive.

> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:36 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
>
> I have since switched to the BatteryMinder Odyssey specific charger.
>
> http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s3-12v-8-amp-hawker-odyssey-gill-lt-7000-series-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-desulfator/
>
> I wanted to make sure to use a real recommended odyssey charger.
>
> I'm sure the other ones can do the job. I just felt better with this
> one knowing it was actually made for that type of battery, and it
> would be set to the right mode automatically if the power went out and
> came back on.
>
> Tim
> On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net
> <mailto:egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>> wrote:
>
>>
>> <mailto:egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>>
>>
>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the
>> Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge
>> my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the
>> WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to
>> what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>
>> Ed Godfrey<==========================;- The RV10-List Email
>> Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> http://forums.matr===========================nbsp;-->
>> <http://forums.matronics.com/>http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================;-
>> List Conbsp;-Matt Dralle, List
>> Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> <http://wiki.matronics.com/>
>>
>>
>>
>>



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:56 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I have ½ dz of them in two locations. They have lots of accessories such as a panel female plug that I have installed on the RV’s baggage bulkhead. They seem to change the Odessey just fine.

They also have BMW adopters as part of their cigarette lighter plug. Mercedes Benz chargers are basically are the same with MB logo on the box.

Do not archive.

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Dec 7, 2017, at 10:01 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:



Funny you should list that one Rob.

I bought 2 of those for at home. Used one to recharge my
Odyssey in the RV-14 while I was building it and testing the
panel. It is a really nice charger. I liked it so much that
I bought another to keep on my truck all winter as I've
had the battery drain on me 4 times now.

These are pretty nice chargers and if you're on a budget,
I'd say they would work good for your odyssey also.
Tim


> On 12/7/2017 11:46 AM, Rob Kermanj wrote:
> I have been using this charger on all my vehicles and Odessey Batt. Works fantastic.
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FQBWCY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> Do not archive.
>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:36 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> wrote:
>>
>> I have since switched to the BatteryMinder Odyssey specific charger.
>>
>> http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s3-12v-8-amp-hawker-odyssey-gill-lt-7000-series-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-desulfator/
>>
>> I wanted to make sure to use a real recommended odyssey charger.
>>
>> I'm sure the other ones can do the job. I just felt better with this one knowing it was actually made for that type of battery, and it would be set to the right mode automatically if the power went out and came back on.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>>
>>> On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net <mailto:egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey<==========================; - The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>> http://forums.matr===========================nbsp;--> <http://forums.matronics.com/>http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================; - List Conbsp; -Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution <http://wiki.matronics.com/>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>






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PostPosted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:53 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to the same conclusions as Kelly has below.  I'm a bit late to this discussion but here one thing I have empirical evidence for; undercharging these batteries will slowly kill them, slowly but inevitably. 

Three things I KNOW will do this is
  1.  Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec sheet and obey it).  This seems straight forward but do check that the voltage you are displaying is the voltage the battery sees.  I was measuring the voltage for my two charging circuits in two different places (EIS and EFIS).  Turned out one was accurate and one was not.
  2.  Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries.  During my build, I had a few left over from my gel cell days in gliders.  They will not adequately charge a discharged 680 but it takes about 1.2 years to discover that.   I'm not sure, but using an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing the old thing away.  If there are  tenders/minders on the market now that are unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's points below - you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable charger.
  3. Parasitic loads when not in use.  My load was fully documented; the clocks in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated thru an enlightened SW upgrade).  It was a very small load but it was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries but the load was connected to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more expensive.  Why is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem?  Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks?  That didn't seem to be a problem.  Well it was occasionally a problem.  And with AGMs, a parasitic load seems to be equivalent to undercharging it; the battery is sits in a slowly declining state then is undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter load.  I don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a parasitic load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2.  I guess you could keep it on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd suggest hunting down the load and killing it.
Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2 years then they won't.  It's a slow death that may mystify you for $awhile$.  I have a boat but 680s make lousy anchors.

Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10.  The Walmart/Schumacher charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?) batteries worked fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead acid trolling motor battery every other day.  I'm going to separate chargers as a result.

Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries, especially if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14 scheme.  That data is the key to figuring out whether you have slow death problems or not and what might be causing them.  Problems are easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus Z-14 which is good and bad.  It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems because they aren't so critical.  Which means that you can kill 2 batteries with one problem before you decide to act.

Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost me to figure it out' " Watson
On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> (kellym(at)aviating.com)

The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
or
https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
There are several unnecessary risks.



On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net> (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)

I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.

Ed Godfrey


































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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

You might add this to your order for an easy plugin on installed on the baggage compartment.

[img]cid:697077F6-7308-4237-BBF8-456C31819EC8[/img]

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On Dec 16, 2017, at 2:51 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)> wrote:
Quote:
To all of the folks who provided suggestions, thanks. I will be putting the CTEK charger on my Christmas list. Thanks.

Ed Godfrey

On 12/7/2017 11:46 AM, Rob Kermanj wrote:

Quote:
I have been using this charger on all my vehicles and Odessey Batt. �Works fantastic.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FQBWCY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Do not archive.<mime-attachment.png>
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, at 7:36 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> (Tim(at)MyRV10.com) wrote:
I have since switched to the BatteryMinder Odyssey specific charger.

http://www.batteryminders.com/batteryminder-model-128cec1-aa-s3-12v-8-amp-hawker-odyssey-gill-lt-7000-series-aviation-battery-charger-maintainer-desulfator/

I wanted to make sure to use a real recommended odyssey charger.

I'm sure the other ones can do the job. I just felt better with this one knowing it was actually made for that type of battery, and it would be set to the right mode automatically if the power went out and came back on.

Tim


On Dec 6, 2017, at 9:24 PM, Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> RV10-List message posted by: Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net (egodfrey(at)ameritech.net)> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks. Ed Godfrey<==========================;������- The RV10-List Email Forum -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List http://forums.matr===========================nbsp;--> http://wiki.matronics.com<==========================;�����������- List Conbsp;���������������������-Matt Dralle, List Ads.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution









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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:51 pm    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

I thought I'd weigh in a bit with my own experience on parasitic loads on a PC680..

I have a dual battery configuration, with the idea being that I could power up avionics, enter flight plans, do pre-start radio calls, etc. off the one battery (the 680) and not have worry about draining the battery for engine start, as my other battery takes care of that. Also, the 680 is also connected to the "always on" pin for two of my EFISes (Advanced Flight Systems) which gives them a better orderly shutdown, clock maintenance (I presume) and the ability to run off the 680 as a backup battery if I have to turn my master off in flight for some reason. It's also connected to the "trickle charge" pin of a TCW IBBS Nimh battery pack (4mA max) used as a backup battery for other purposes.

Conceptually, it works well. And in practice it *did* work well for the first little while - even in cases where I hadn't operated the aircraft for a month and the 680 was under those small parasitic loads for a long time, the voltage on the 680 measured fine and it ran my avionics for a reasonable amount of time. But lately I've noticed that my 680 can't maintain a charge for long at all if under any kind of load. I installed it around 3 years ago (only one of those years flying, but for the other two, it was installed and under the same electrical loads as now while I completed construction of the plane).

As long as only a couple of amps are flowing through, it can maintain its voltage reasonably well before drooping. But if larger loads (ie: 7 or 8 amps) are present, it drains extremely rapidly.

I'll have to replace the PC680 if I want any kind of reasonable backup operational time from it. Maybe a 3 year lifespan for a 680 in that electrical environment is to be expected, but I'm considering if other technologies might be more appropriate. I don't need the cranking capacity of the 680 in regular use - my other battery does that. But I am looking for something that can provide a 10 or so amp draw for as long a period of time as possible while not being so adverse to parasitic loads. Anyone found anything that meets that criteria? Or I can just replace the 680 every 3 or so years - there are certainly more expensive things I have to maintain in the plane Smile

Dan

Quote:
On 2017-Dec-14, at 7:53 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:

Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to the same conclusions as Kelly has below. I'm a bit late to this discussion but here one thing I have empirical evidence for; undercharging these batteries will slowly kill them, slowly but inevitably.

Three things I KNOW will do this is
• Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec sheet and obey it). This seems straight forward but do check that the voltage you are displaying is the voltage the battery sees. I was measuring the voltage for my two charging circuits in two different places (EIS and EFIS). Turned out one was accurate and one was not.
• Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries. During my build, I had a few left over from my gel cell days in gliders. They will not adequately charge a discharged 680 but it takes about 1.2 years to discover that. I'm not sure, but using an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing the old thing away. If there are tenders/minders on the market now that are unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's points below - you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable charger.
• Parasitic loads when not in use. My load was fully documented; the clocks in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated thru an enlightened SW upgrade). It was a very small load but it was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries but the load was connected to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more expensive. Why is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem? Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks? That didn't seem to be a problem. Well it was occasionally a problem. And with AGMs, a parasitic load seems to be equivalent to undercharging it; the battery is sits in a slowly declining state then is undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter load. I don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a parasitic load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2. I guess you could keep it on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd suggest hunting down the load and killing it.
Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2 years then they won't. It's a slow death that may mystify you for $awhile$. I have a boat but 680s make lousy anchors.

Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10. The Walmart/Schumacher charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?) batteries worked fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead acid trolling motor battery every other day. I'm going to separate chargers as a result.

Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries, especially if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14 scheme. That data is the key to figuring out whether you have slow death problems or not and what might be causing them. Problems are easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus Z-14 which is good and bad. It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems because they aren't so critical. Which means that you can kill 2 batteries with one problem before you decide to act.

Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost me to figure it out' " Watson
On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
>
> The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
> AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
> If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
> or
> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
> Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
> Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
> There are several unnecessary risks.
>
>
>
> On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>
>>
>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>
>> Ed Godfrey
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Virus-free. www.avast.com

---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1527
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:22 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

Dan,
I don't recall where I saw it, but the Odyssey batteries apparently
don't like being charged at too slow a rate or two low a voltage. You
might search for a document on restoring them. I do remember that
somebody came up with a procedure. Don't recall if it was to discharge a
fair amount and then use a constant current charger or something else.
Early failures of Odysseys are not uncommon, either from low use while
finishing a build or other uses that don't fit the normal start the
engine, fly for awhile with alternator set a bit higher than a wet acid
battery...maybe 14.4 volts. I have a charger that was sold specifically
for the Odyssey, (Ultimizer?) that cycles from about 13.3 to 14.6 when
maintaining a fully charged battery. I've got about 3 years on my
Odyssey, with first year finishing build and learning the avionics
before actually flying with it.
Kelly

On 12/20/2017 10:50 PM, Dan Charrois wrote:
Quote:


I thought I'd weigh in a bit with my own experience on parasitic loads on a PC680..

I have a dual battery configuration, with the idea being that I could power up avionics, enter flight plans, do pre-start radio calls, etc. off the one battery (the 680) and not have worry about draining the battery for engine start, as my other battery takes care of that. Also, the 680 is also connected to the "always on" pin for two of my EFISes (Advanced Flight Systems) which gives them a better orderly shutdown, clock maintenance (I presume) and the ability to run off the 680 as a backup battery if I have to turn my master off in flight for some reason. It's also connected to the "trickle charge" pin of a TCW IBBS Nimh battery pack (4mA max) used as a backup battery for other purposes.

Conceptually, it works well. And in practice it *did* work well for the first little while - even in cases where I hadn't operated the aircraft for a month and the 680 was under those small parasitic loads for a long time, the voltage on the 680 measured fine and it ran my avionics for a reasonable amount of time. But lately I've noticed that my 680 can't maintain a charge for long at all if under any kind of load. I installed it around 3 years ago (only one of those years flying, but for the other two, it was installed and under the same electrical loads as now while I completed construction of the plane).

As long as only a couple of amps are flowing through, it can maintain its voltage reasonably well before drooping. But if larger loads (ie: 7 or 8 amps) are present, it drains extremely rapidly.

I'll have to replace the PC680 if I want any kind of reasonable backup operational time from it. Maybe a 3 year lifespan for a 680 in that electrical environment is to be expected, but I'm considering if other technologies might be more appropriate. I don't need the cranking capacity of the 680 in regular use - my other battery does that. But I am looking for something that can provide a 10 or so amp draw for as long a period of time as possible while not being so adverse to parasitic loads. Anyone found anything that meets that criteria? Or I can just replace the 680 every 3 or so years - there are certainly more expensive things I have to maintain in the plane Smile

Dan

> On 2017-Dec-14, at 7:53 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to the same conclusions as Kelly has below. I'm a bit late to this discussion but here one thing I have empirical evidence for; undercharging these batteries will slowly kill them, slowly but inevitably.
>
> Three things I KNOW will do this is
> • Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec sheet and obey it). This seems straight forward but do check that the voltage you are displaying is the voltage the battery sees. I was measuring the voltage for my two charging circuits in two different places (EIS and EFIS). Turned out one was accurate and one was not.
> • Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries. During my build, I had a few left over from my gel cell days in gliders. They will not adequately charge a discharged 680 but it takes about 1.2 years to discover that. I'm not sure, but using an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing the old thing away. If there are tenders/minders on the market now that are unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's points below - you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable charger.
> • Parasitic loads when not in use. My load was fully documented; the clocks in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated thru an enlightened SW upgrade). It was a very small load but it was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries but the load was connected to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more expensive. Why is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem? Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks? That didn't seem to be a problem. Well it was occasionally a problem. And with AGMs, a parasitic load seems to be equivalent to undercharging it; the battery is sits in a slowly declining state then is undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter load. I don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a parasitic load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2. I guess you could keep it on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd suggest hunting down the load and killing it.
> Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2 years then they won't. It's a slow death that may mystify you for $awhile$. I have a boat but 680s make lousy anchors.
>
> Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10. The Walmart/Schumacher charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?) batteries worked fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead acid trolling motor battery every other day. I'm going to separate chargers as a result.
>
> Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries, especially if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14 scheme. That data is the key to figuring out whether you have slow death problems or not and what might be causing them. Problems are easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus Z-14 which is good and bad. It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems because they aren't so critical. Which means that you can kill 2 batteries with one problem before you decide to act.
>
> Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost me to figure it out' " Watson
> On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>
>> The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
>> AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
>> If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> or
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
>> Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
>> There are several unnecessary risks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com



---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213







- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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gengrumpy



Joined: 07 May 2013
Posts: 123
Location: Tullahoma, TN

PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:48 am    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

While risking the ire of “the battery charger war” ….. several articles have been written in the past in Light Plane Maintenance and Aviation Consumer that discuss whether or not to keep a charger on your battery(ies). You should go back and research those. Based on those, I purchased a Battery Minder designed specifically for the 2 PC680’s I have in my RV10. Since I don’t fly my plane at least an hour each week (the time required to fully replace the lost charge from starting) I keep a single Battery Minder connected to my 2 batteries. My first set of batteries were removed at the 6 year point, and were going strong. I keep one around the hangar for odd use and 12years on, it is still providing good amps.

About to fly my newly built RV8 and was debating whether to get the increased cost Battery Minder when a friend turned me onto the Odyssey built chargers designed specifically for the Odyssey batteries (they come in 3 different charging amp versions). I just hooked up the 6amp version ($109 from AutoZone) and it has all of the capabilities of the Battery Minder except for the temperature sensor. My friend has been using one for his homebuilt for years and swears by it.

Bottom line - unless you fly at least 1 hr (continuous flight time) once a week, your batter(ies) are slowly losing capacity over time…..and if you have parasitic loads on them when in the hangar, a smart charger like the Odyssey or Battery Minder plugged in while the plane sits in the hangar are an absolute must.

grumpy
RV10 flying 11+ years, RV8 about to fly

Quote:
On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:50 PM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:



I thought I'd weigh in a bit with my own experience on parasitic loads on a PC680..

I have a dual battery configuration, with the idea being that I could power up avionics, enter flight plans, do pre-start radio calls, etc. off the one battery (the 680) and not have worry about draining the battery for engine start, as my other battery takes care of that. Also, the 680 is also connected to the "always on" pin for two of my EFISes (Advanced Flight Systems) which gives them a better orderly shutdown, clock maintenance (I presume) and the ability to run off the 680 as a backup battery if I have to turn my master off in flight for some reason. It's also connected to the "trickle charge" pin of a TCW IBBS Nimh battery pack (4mA max) used as a backup battery for other purposes.

Conceptually, it works well. And in practice it *did* work well for the first little while - even in cases where I hadn't operated the aircraft for a month and the 680 was under those small parasitic loads for a long time, the voltage on the 680 measured fine and it ran my avionics for a reasonable amount of time. But lately I've noticed that my 680 can't maintain a charge for long at all if under any kind of load. I installed it around 3 years ago (only one of those years flying, but for the other two, it was installed and under the same electrical loads as now while I completed construction of the plane).

As long as only a couple of amps are flowing through, it can maintain its voltage reasonably well before drooping. But if larger loads (ie: 7 or 8 amps) are present, it drains extremely rapidly.

I'll have to replace the PC680 if I want any kind of reasonable backup operational time from it. Maybe a 3 year lifespan for a 680 in that electrical environment is to be expected, but I'm considering if other technologies might be more appropriate. I don't need the cranking capacity of the 680 in regular use - my other battery does that. But I am looking for something that can provide a 10 or so amp draw for as long a period of time as possible while not being so adverse to parasitic loads. Anyone found anything that meets that criteria? Or I can just replace the 680 every 3 or so years - there are certainly more expensive things I have to maintain in the plane Smile

Dan

> On 2017-Dec-14, at 7:53 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to the same conclusions as Kelly has below. I'm a bit late to this discussion but here one thing I have empirical evidence for; undercharging these batteries will slowly kill them, slowly but inevitably.
>
> Three things I KNOW will do this is
> • Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec sheet and obey it). This seems straight forward but do check that the voltage you are displaying is the voltage the battery sees. I was measuring the voltage for my two charging circuits in two different places (EIS and EFIS). Turned out one was accurate and one was not.
> • Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries. During my build, I had a few left over from my gel cell days in gliders. They will not adequately charge a discharged 680 but it takes about 1.2 years to discover that. I'm not sure, but using an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing the old thing away. If there are tenders/minders on the market now that are unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's points below - you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable charger.
> • Parasitic loads when not in use. My load was fully documented; the clocks in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated thru an enlightened SW upgrade). It was a very small load but it was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries but the load was connected to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more expensive. Why is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem? Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks? That didn't seem to be a problem. Well it was occasionally a problem. And with AGMs, a parasitic load seems to be equivalent to undercharging it; the battery is sits in a slowly declining state then is undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter load. I don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a parasitic load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2. I guess you could keep it on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd suggest hunting down the load and killing it.
> Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2 years then they won't. It's a slow death that may mystify you for $awhile$. I have a boat but 680s make lousy anchors.
>
> Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10. The Walmart/Schumacher charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?) batteries worked fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead acid trolling motor battery every other day. I'm going to separate chargers as a result.
>
> Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries, especially if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14 scheme. That data is the key to figuring out whether you have slow death problems or not and what might be causing them. Problems are easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus Z-14 which is good and bad. It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems because they aren't so critical. Which means that you can kill 2 batteries with one problem before you decide to act.
>
> Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost me to figure it out' " Watson
> On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>
>>
>> The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
>> AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
>> If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> or
>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>> Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
>> Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
>> There are several unnecessary risks.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>>
>>> Ed Godfrey
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com



---
Dan Charrois
President, Syzygy Research & Technology
Phone: 780-961-2213







- The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:04 pm    Post subject: Battery charger/minder/tender Reply with quote

No charger wars!

But I would challenge one conclusion; "unless you fly at least 1 hr
(continuous flight time) once a week, your batter(ies) are slowly losing
capacity over time".  I think the point is that the Odysseys need to be
fully recharged after (most) starts and that it may take a full hour of
post-start flight to fully recharge them.

What I've found and read is that AGM batteries can be left untouched for
long periods of time (2 years) as long as they are stored in a fully
charged state.  But anything that results in them sitting around in a
less than fully charged state will slowly but inevitably kill them.  My
solution to this is 1) make sure my charging system is charging them  at
a high enough voltage (14.1 - 14.7), 2) Get rid of all parasitic loads,
3) If I ever need to power-on the plane without flying it afterwards, I
hook it up to a charger to top it off.

The biggest discovery I made after 5+ years of expensive battery abuse
is that everything I needed to know was documented in the spec sheet
that ships with every Odyssey.   I just had to read and obey.

On 12/21/2017 8:48 AM, John Miller wrote:
Quote:


While risking the ire of “the battery charger war” ….. several articles have been written in the past in Light Plane Maintenance and Aviation Consumer that discuss whether or not to keep a charger on your battery(ies). You should go back and research those. Based on those, I purchased a Battery Minder designed specifically for the 2 PC680’s I have in my RV10. Since I don’t fly my plane at least an hour each week (the time required to fully replace the lost charge from starting) I keep a single Battery Minder connected to my 2 batteries. My first set of batteries were removed at the 6 year point, and were going strong. I keep one around the hangar for odd use and 12years on, it is still providing good amps.

About to fly my newly built RV8 and was debating whether to get the increased cost Battery Minder when a friend turned me onto the Odyssey built chargers designed specifically for the Odyssey batteries (they come in 3 different charging amp versions). I just hooked up the 6amp version ($109 from AutoZone) and it has all of the capabilities of the Battery Minder except for the temperature sensor. My friend has been using one for his homebuilt for years and swears by it.

Bottom line - unless you fly at least 1 hr (continuous flight time) once a week, your batter(ies) are slowly losing capacity over time…..and if you have parasitic loads on them when in the hangar, a smart charger like the Odyssey or Battery Minder plugged in while the plane sits in the hangar are an absolute must.

grumpy
RV10 flying 11+ years, RV8 about to fly

> On Dec 20, 2017, at 11:50 PM, Dan Charrois <dan(at)syz.com> wrote:
>
>
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> I thought I'd weigh in a bit with my own experience on parasitic loads on a PC680..
>
> I have a dual battery configuration, with the idea being that I could power up avionics, enter flight plans, do pre-start radio calls, etc. off the one battery (the 680) and not have worry about draining the battery for engine start, as my other battery takes care of that. Also, the 680 is also connected to the "always on" pin for two of my EFISes (Advanced Flight Systems) which gives them a better orderly shutdown, clock maintenance (I presume) and the ability to run off the 680 as a backup battery if I have to turn my master off in flight for some reason. It's also connected to the "trickle charge" pin of a TCW IBBS Nimh battery pack (4mA max) used as a backup battery for other purposes.
>
> Conceptually, it works well. And in practice it *did* work well for the first little while - even in cases where I hadn't operated the aircraft for a month and the 680 was under those small parasitic loads for a long time, the voltage on the 680 measured fine and it ran my avionics for a reasonable amount of time. But lately I've noticed that my 680 can't maintain a charge for long at all if under any kind of load. I installed it around 3 years ago (only one of those years flying, but for the other two, it was installed and under the same electrical loads as now while I completed construction of the plane).
>
> As long as only a couple of amps are flowing through, it can maintain its voltage reasonably well before drooping. But if larger loads (ie: 7 or 8 amps) are present, it drains extremely rapidly.
>
> I'll have to replace the PC680 if I want any kind of reasonable backup operational time from it. Maybe a 3 year lifespan for a 680 in that electrical environment is to be expected, but I'm considering if other technologies might be more appropriate. I don't need the cranking capacity of the 680 in regular use - my other battery does that. But I am looking for something that can provide a 10 or so amp draw for as long a period of time as possible while not being so adverse to parasitic loads. Anyone found anything that meets that criteria? Or I can just replace the 680 every 3 or so years - there are certainly more expensive things I have to maintain in the plane Smile
>
> Dan
>
>> On 2017-Dec-14, at 7:53 AM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com> wrote:
>>
>> Having ruined a number of 680s during my 10 year odyssey, I've come to the same conclusions as Kelly has below. I'm a bit late to this discussion but here one thing I have empirical evidence for; undercharging these batteries will slowly kill them, slowly but inevitably.
>>
>> Three things I KNOW will do this is
>> • Inadequate voltage in aircraft charging circuit (read the spec sheet and obey it). This seems straight forward but do check that the voltage you are displaying is the voltage the battery sees. I was measuring the voltage for my two charging circuits in two different places (EIS and EFIS). Turned out one was accurate and one was not.
>> • Old battery tenders/minders not intended for AGM batteries. During my build, I had a few left over from my gel cell days in gliders. They will not adequately charge a discharged 680 but it takes about 1.2 years to discover that. I'm not sure, but using an old one to just maintain is worse than throwing the old thing away. If there are tenders/minders on the market now that are unsuitable for AGM batteries, I wouldn't know, but see Kelly's points below - you just don't need one, you need an AGM capable charger.
>> • Parasitic loads when not in use. My load was fully documented; the clocks in my (3) GRT EFISs (this has since been eliminated thru an enlightened SW upgrade). It was a very small load but it was 3X a small load. I have 2 batteries but the load was connected to only one, which made diagnosis easier but more expensive. Why is such a small load in a frequently flown plane such a problem? Didn't grandpa drive cars with electric clocks? That didn't seem to be a problem. Well it was occasionally a problem. And with AGMs, a parasitic load seems to be equivalent to undercharging it; the battery is sits in a slowly declining state then is undercharged the next time it gets hit with the starter load. I don't know whether that is actually the mechnism but I KNOW a parasitic load will slowly, inevitably, kill a 680 or 2. I guess you could keep it on an AGM certified minder/tender but I'd suggest hunting down the load and killing it.
>> Things will work just fine with any 3 of these conditions for 1-2 years then they won't. It's a slow death that may mystify you for $awhile$. I have a boat but 680s make lousy anchors.
>>
>> Speaking of boats, my little jon boat is parked next to my '10. The Walmart/Schumacher charger with settings for AGM, Lead and Gel Cell(?) batteries worked fine until I apparently wore it out charging the lead acid trolling motor battery every other day. I'm going to separate chargers as a result.
>>
>> Regarding 'empirical evidence'; label, log and track your batteries, especially if you have 2 of the same installed like I do in my Z-14 scheme. That data is the key to figuring out whether you have slow death problems or not and what might be causing them. Problems are easily mitigated with a dual batt/alt/bus Z-14 which is good and bad. It can delay diagnosis of electrical system problems because they aren't so critical. Which means that you can kill 2 batteries with one problem before you decide to act.
>>
>> Bill "I KNOW is shorthand for 'ask me how I know and how much it cost me to figure it out' " Watson
>> On 12/6/2017 10:45 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> The Odyssey is a variant of the AGM technology. I suggest that you do not need a "tender". You need something that can recharge the battery whenever it has been run down. Most any automatic charger with an AGM switch will do...as long as you only charge things when you are present.
>>> AGM batteries have a very low self discharge rate, and if there was no leakage of current, would be very fresh after 3 months of sitting.
>>> If you want a genuine Odyssey charger, you can go with
>>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-12a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>>> or
>>> https://www.batterymart.com/p-obc-6a-odyssey-portable-charger.html
>>> Both a lot less than the overpriced Battery minder models.
>>> Again, I would NOT leave a charger of any kind on a battery unattended.
>>> There are several unnecessary risks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12/6/2017 8:24 PM, Ed Godfrey wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am looking to get a battery charger/tender and was looking for the Walmart one that Tim had suggested a number of years ago, to charge my Odyssey PC-925 battery. It seems that they no longer carry the WM-2500A model any longer. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what would be a suitable replacement? Thanks.
>>>>
>>>> Ed Godfrey
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>> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> ---
> Dan Charrois
> President, Syzygy Research & Technology
> Phone: 780-961-2213
>



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