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Peculiar note in Lycoming SI 1060R (Pushrod Identification)

 
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TimRVator(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:45 pm    Post subject: Peculiar note in Lycoming SI 1060R (Pushrod Identification) Reply with quote

Lycoming's recently released Service Instruction 1060R
(https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1060-R) has a
new note:

"Do not use push rods with new part numbers in the same cylinder as push
rods with superseded part numbers of the same length. (For example: do
not use P/Ns 15F28835-17 and 15F19957-17 in the same cylinder.) Push
rods with new part numbers and push rods with a superseded part number
of different lengths can be used in the same cylinder."

Why would Lycoming prohibit using two pushrods of the same length with
different part numbers in the same cylinder?  I don't see how it would
matter.

Tim

--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
A&P
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 1000 hrs


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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:39 pm    Post subject: Peculiar note in Lycoming SI 1060R (Pushrod Identification) Reply with quote

Yea, Tim:
GREAT QUESTION!
Whom ever wrote up the SI did a poor job as you pointed out. They did not explain WHY!
Also, reading this:  "Push rods with new part numbers and push rods with a superseded part number of different lengths can be used in the same cylinder."
HOW MUCH of a difference is allowed?  OK...  So if the difference is 0.001" is that acceptable?
Looks like we have to write back to Lycoming and get a Revision to this SI!
Barry
On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 3:43 PM, Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
Quote:
--> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)>

Lycoming's recently released Service Instruction 1060R (https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1060-R) has a new note:

"Do not use push rods with new part numbers in the same cylinder as push rods with superseded part numbers of the same length. (For example: do not use P/Ns 15F28835-17 and 15F19957-17 in the same cylinder.) Push rods with new part numbers and push rods with a superseded part number of different lengths can be used in the same cylinder."

Why would Lycoming prohibit using two pushrods of the same length with different part numbers in the same cylinder?  I don't see how it would matter.

Tim

--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
A&P
RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
RV-10 N31TD -- 1000 hrs



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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 669

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Peculiar note in Lycoming SI 1060R (Pushrod Identification) Reply with quote

Stu:
You bring up a good  point about the difference between the Exhaust and Intake Rockers.
The difference is the direction the oil squirts out.  
On the EXHAUST  it squirts ONTO the Exhaust Valve.
On the INTAKE it squirts AWAY from the Intake Valve. 

MANY an Engine Rebuilding Shop and Lycoming themselves have mixed up the rockers. 
If the oil does not squirt onto the Exhaust vale you will have coking on the valve and in the guide. 
There is a SB or SI that allows you to REPLACE the INTAKE Rocker with an Exhaust Rocker.  
I have been doing this for YEARS!  Engine runs cooler and NO chance of  mixing up the rockers.
Barry
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 5:10 PM, iiNet <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au (stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au)> wrote:
Quote:
--> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: iiNet <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au (stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au)>

Thanks Tim.

“A little different” ... to my knowledge they haven’t also changed rockers (thereby rocker sockets), so I take it this means there might not be oil holes on the new intake pushrod ball ends. Oil pressure comes through the hydraulic lifters, through the pushrod, through the rocker body (different for exhaust valves) to the exhaust valve stem and guide. Much worse than a dry tappet clearance problem, depriving the valve of oil would be a disaster, so good call Lycoming, but why not make the reasons clear?!  It’s hard to get good help these days 🙄

Kind Regards, Stu

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Jan 2018, at 08:30, Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
>
> --> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)>
>
> I called Lycoming to ask.  Mark (tech support) said he thinks the reason is that the ball ends on the old and new part numbers are a little different, and they want to prevent someone from accidentally swapping intake rod for exhaust rod on a cylinder, and thereby risk having a dry tappet clearance problem.
>
> --
>
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> A&P
> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
> RV-10 N31TD -- 1000 hrs
>
> Tim Lewis wrote on 1/29/2018 3:43 PM:
>> --> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)>
>>
>> Lycoming's recently released Service Instruction 1060R (https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1060-R) has a new note:
>>
>> "Do not use push rods with new part numbers in the same cylinder as push rods with superseded part numbers of the same length. (For example: do not use P/Ns 15F28835-17 and 15F19957-17 in the same cylinder.) Push rods with new part numbers and push rods with a superseded part number of different lengths can be used in the same cylinder."
>>
>> Why would Lycoming prohibit using two pushrods of the same length with different part numbers in the same cylinder?  I don't see how it would matter.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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stuart(at)stuarthutchison
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:19 pm    Post subject: Peculiar note in Lycoming SI 1060R (Pushrod Identification) Reply with quote

Excellent news Barry! I took that chance when I rebuilt my narrow deck IO-540 in Dec 2010 by putting exhaust rockers on the intake side as well. My old intake rockers had no oil jets at all. I figured it couldn’t hurt and the intent was to increase oil flow to the heads to keep CHTs as low as possible. Prop governor oil pressure is also robbed from the RHS oil gallery and apparently that’s the side most sticky valves occur, most noticeable with rough running on startup until the valve guides expand. Unfortunately, Lycomings hydraulic lifters were designed to be vertical and to remain full of oil (per their automotive engines) and the design isn’t particularly suited to horizontal use.

Kind Regards, Stu

Sent from my iPhone
On 31 Jan 2018, at 09:23, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Stu:
You bring up a good point about the difference between the Exhaust and Intake Rockers.
The difference is the direction the oil squirts out.
On the EXHAUST it squirts ONTO the Exhaust Valve.
On the INTAKE it squirts AWAY from the Intake Valve.

MANY an Engine Rebuilding Shop and Lycoming themselves have mixed up the rockers.
If the oil does not squirt onto the Exhaust vale you will have coking on the valve and in the guide.
There is a SB or SI that allows you to REPLACE the INTAKE Rocker with an Exhaust Rocker.
I have been doing this for YEARS! Engine runs cooler and NO chance of mixing up the rockers.
Barry
On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 5:10 PM, iiNet <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au (stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au)> wrote:
Quote:
--> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: iiNet <stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au (stuart(at)stuarthutchison.com.au)>

Thanks Tim.

“A little different” ... to my knowledge they haven’t also changed rockers (thereby rocker sockets), so I take it this means there might not be oil holes on the new intake pushrod ball ends. Oil pressure comes through the hydraulic lifters, through the pushrod, through the rocker body (different for exhaust valves) to the exhaust valve stem and guide. Much worse than a dry tappet clearance problem, depriving the valve of oil would be a disaster, so good call Lycoming, but why not make the reasons clear?! It’s hard to get good help these days 🙄

Kind Regards, Stu

Sent from my iPhone

> On 31 Jan 2018, at 08:30, Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)> wrote:
>
> --> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)>
>
> I called Lycoming to ask. Mark (tech support) said he thinks the reason is that the ball ends on the old and new part numbers are a little different, and they want to prevent someone from accidentally swapping intake rod for exhaust rod on a cylinder, and thereby risk having a dry tappet clearance problem.
>
> --
>
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> A&P
> RV-6A N47TD -- 1104 hrs - sold
> RV-10 N31TD -- 1000 hrs
>
> Tim Lewis wrote on 1/29/2018 3:43 PM:
>> --> LycomingEngines-List message posted by: Tim Lewis <TimRVator(at)comcast.net (TimRVator(at)comcast.net)>
>>
>> Lycoming's recently released Service Instruction 1060R (https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1060-R) has a new note:
>>
>> "Do not use push rods with new part numbers in the same cylinder as push rods with superseded part numbers of the same length. (For example: do not use P/Ns 15F28835-17 and 15F19957-17 in the same cylinder.) Push rods with new part numbers and push rods with a superseded part number of different lengths can be used in the same cylinder."
>>
>> Why would Lycoming prohibit using two pushrods of the same length with different part numbers in the same cylinder? I don't see how it would matter.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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====================================









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