Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
BBS Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jbdarke(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:13 pm    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - 941-676-0429


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
jbdarke(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100 pounds.
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm

Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds.   "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"
John
Punta Gorda, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - 941-676-0429


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
lcottrell



Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1365
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:25 pm    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

John, perhaps every one is sleeping or something. I am not an expert on much of anything but, I might be able to give you a little guidance.Keep in mind that I fly a firestar2.
If it is for your information and peace of mind- it is probably somewhere around 1100 to 1150. Don't quote me but I think JH's Pfer is rated at 1250, but he also beefed it up beyond plans. If it is for paper work purposes then you might fudge a bit for the paper, and keep it lower for your own peace of mind. John has decided how much weight he can carry safely, so he set the passenger seat belt to a length that regulates how fat a passenger he can carry. You can't snap the belt, you don't go flying. I can't fly with him!
I believe that you said that it weighed about 760 empty. 600's would be a bit more normal for weight. Just keep in mind that the heavier it is, the more like a low end GA plane it flies, and the less fun it is to fly.
 I was selling a Mark III once to a pretty chunky guy. He had crashed his brothers ultra light and was going to buy mine to replace it. I weighed 240 and I asked him how much he weighed and he said 235. Yah! I bet he was tipping close to 300. I was on the Alvord Desert which was 11 miles long at that point, so I figured that worst come to worst we could drive it around. I got it up to 60 MPH, and it wouldn't go any faster and didn't lift off where it normally did, so I looked over at him and asked- "How much did you say you weighed?" He stuck with 235, so I sucked in my own gut, gave it a yank up into ground effects and we went flying- very carefully! I can say that landing was as smooth as I had ever done since we had enough inertia to not get slowed into a stall.
Almost all planes, especially those by Kolb have a pretty Conservative limit built in. However abuse can be accumulative.
Hang in there some one is bound to look at their computer soon and give you a definitive answer.
Larry
 
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 4:24 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100 pounds.
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm

Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds.   "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"
John
Punta Gorda, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.


If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

_________________
do not archive
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
jbdarke(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:35 pm    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

Thanks for your comprehensive reply, Larry.  We are going to do a weight and balance this week end.
John
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 7:24 PM, Larry Cottrell <lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com (lcottrell1020(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
John, perhaps every one is sleeping or something. I am not an expert on much of anything but, I might be able to give you a little guidance.Keep in mind that I fly a firestar2.
If it is for your information and peace of mind- it is probably somewhere around 1100 to 1150. Don't quote me but I think JH's Pfer is rated at 1250, but he also beefed it up beyond plans. If it is for paper work purposes then you might fudge a bit for the paper, and keep it lower for your own peace of mind. John has decided how much weight he can carry safely, so he set the passenger seat belt to a length that regulates how fat a passenger he can carry. You can't snap the belt, you don't go flying. I can't fly with him!
I believe that you said that it weighed about 760 empty. 600's would be a bit more normal for weight. Just keep in mind that the heavier it is, the more like a low end GA plane it flies, and the less fun it is to fly.
 I was selling a Mark III once to a pretty chunky guy. He had crashed his brothers ultra light and was going to buy mine to replace it. I weighed 240 and I asked him how much he weighed and he said 235. Yah! I bet he was tipping close to 300. I was on the Alvord Desert which was 11 miles long at that point, so I figured that worst come to worst we could drive it around. I got it up to 60 MPH, and it wouldn't go any faster and didn't lift off where it normally did, so I looked over at him and asked- "How much did you say you weighed?" He stuck with 235, so I sucked in my own gut, gave it a yank up into ground effects and we went flying- very carefully! I can say that landing was as smooth as I had ever done since we had enough inertia to not get slowed into a stall.
Almost all planes, especially those by Kolb have a pretty Conservative limit built in. However abuse can be accumulative.
Hang in there some one is bound to look at their computer soon and give you a definitive answer.
Larry
 
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 4:24 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100 pounds.
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm

Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds.   "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"
John
Punta Gorda, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.


If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email address before sending.



--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - 941-676-0429


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:31 pm    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

John
748 pounds seems a bit high. My VW powered MKIIIC weighs 588 pounds. My plane is fully enclosed, it has a VW it has a bunch of things that make it heavier but I worked very hard to make it as light as possible. Most of these things you can do now to make your plane lighter. My hard and fast rule was if it didn't NEED to be on my plane it got removed. There are thousands of things. Like, there is a recoil start guide ring and starter rope pulley mount, cut them off. Never use washers to fix a bolt that is too long. never have bolt showing more than 1 1/2 threads. I also changed to a lithium FE starting battery that weighs about one pound. Again there are thousand of things that will make your plane lighter and fly better but never ever make it weaker or less safe.
As for the gross weight it was and still is 1000 lbs. Yes there is considerable margen for being slammed around in rough air for thousands of hours. I added a few things to the wings to strengthen the outer ribs and added jury struts. I have increased my gross weight to 1050 pounds and some have gone to as much as 1200 pounds but is that safe? As the builder I'm comfortable with 1050 lbs and have flown in smooth air and being gentle on the controls with close to 1200 lbs but on a regular basis no way. How well was yours built? Do you know? It really isn't worth gambling a love one's life.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
South Venice, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 6:24 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100 pounds.
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm

Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds.   "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"
John
Punta Gorda, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]






- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
jbdarke(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:51 am    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

We did not build this aircraft.  The kit was started by Lisa Turner and she was written up in Sport Aviation because she had built a Pulsar prior to starting on the Kolb Mark III X.  The project was picked up by a fellow in Texas and completed in 2006, 6+ years after kit was sold.  It has the 81HP Rotax 912 with a BRS chute, strobes, encoding altimeter, intercom, Garmin GPS and Nav Com.  It has the 19 gallon aluminum tank.
In the paperwork, we found a weight and balance that showed total weight of 748 and gross weight of 1150.  There is no paperwork that we were delivered or found as to how the gross weight was set at 1150.  
It is a nice looking aircraft with outstanding paint work and has only been flown about 200 hours.  We are replacing the brake tubing with new nut/ferrules and then intend on weighing it to determine the current data.  My aircraft co-owner weighs 170 and I weigh 235 so it is unlikely that we will be flying together (until I loose some weight).
Thanks for your reply, Rick.
[img]cid:ii_jdft910l0_1617a2fcadecfeba[/img]


On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:30 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
John
748 pounds seems a bit high. My VW powered MKIIIC weighs 588 pounds. My plane is fully enclosed, it has a VW it has a bunch of things that make it heavier but I worked very hard to make it as light as possible. Most of these things you can do now to make your plane lighter. My hard and fast rule was if it didn't NEED to be on my plane it got removed. There are thousands of things. Like, there is a recoil start guide ring and starter rope pulley mount, cut them off. Never use washers to fix a bolt that is too long. never have bolt showing more than 1 1/2 threads. I also changed to a lithium FE starting battery that weighs about one pound. Again there are thousand of things that will make your plane lighter and fly better but never ever make it weaker or less safe.
As for the gross weight it was and still is 1000 lbs. Yes there is considerable margen for being slammed around in rough air for thousands of hours. I added a few things to the wings to strengthen the outer ribs and added jury struts. I have increased my gross weight to 1050 pounds and some have gone to as much as 1200 pounds but is that safe? As the builder I'm comfortable with 1050 lbs and have flown in smooth air and being gentle on the controls with close to 1200 lbs but on a regular basis no way. How well was yours built? Do you know? It really isn't worth gambling a love one's life.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
South Venice, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 6:24 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100 pounds.
http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm

Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds.   "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"
John
Punta Gorda, FL
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]




--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 [url=tel:(941)%20676-0429]941-676-0429[/url]









--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - 941-676-0429


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List



047662.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  242.99 KB
 Viewed:  739 Time(s)

047662.jpg


Back to top
brubakermal(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:20 am    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

An 81 hp motor would not be a rotax ,rite? Motor weight can be everything .

Get organized with Yahoo Mail

Quote:
On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:19 PM, John Darke
<jbdarke(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute. The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft. The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.
I also saw 1150 as gross weight. Comments will be welcome.
--
John Darke, 72 Sabal Drive - Punta Gorda, FL 33950 - 941-676-0429






- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:40 am    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

John

There is no paperwork involved with setting the gross weight. It is a
experimental so the builder just specifies what they think the max weight
should be.

I know your plane. I don't know much about the build quality but it is
beautiful. The only thing I remember about it was that it had a too small
rudder trim tab. The owner had bent the tab 90+ degrees as a attempt to get
sufficient trim. I have photos of it from a Kolb Homecoming and Monument
Valley. I was going to attach them but they are large and I would have been
yelled at. If you want them I will send them to you direct.

Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 5:50 AM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote] We did not build this aircraft. The kit was started by Lisa Turner and
she was written up in Sport Aviation because she had built a Pulsar prior
to starting on the Kolb Mark III X. The project was picked up by a fellow
in Texas and completed in 2006, 6+ years after kit was sold. It has the
81HP Rotax 912 with a BRS chute, strobes, encoding altimeter, intercom,
Garmin GPS and Nav Com. It has the 19 gallon aluminum tank.

In the paperwork, we found a weight and balance that showed total weight
of 748 and gross weight of 1150. There is no paperwork that we were
delivered or found as to how the gross weight was set at 1150.

It is a nice looking aircraft with outstanding paint work and has only
been flown about 200 hours. We are replacing the brake tubing with new
nut/ferrules and then intend on weighing it to determine the current data


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:59 am    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

Uh, clarification needed. There's *always* paperwork with stuff the FAA touches. You're correct that the builder could set gross weight at any number he could get past the inspector, but there was paperwork when the plane was issued its experimental a/w certificate. There was more when the test time was finished, and the test time *legally* have included flying the plane while loaded to its gross weight and c/g limits. If you want to change gross weight on an already certificated a/c, there's more paperwork (and test time) involved.

No doubt Rick knows all this, but newbies might misinterpret the 'no paperwork' phrasing.

Charlie

On 2/9/2018 10:37 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:

Quote:
John


There is no paperwork involved with setting the gross weight. It is a experimental so the builder just specifies what they think the max weight should be. 


I know your plane. I don't know much about the build quality but it is beautiful. The only thing I remember about it was that it had a too small rudder trim tab. The owner had bent the tab 90+ degrees as a attempt to get sufficient trim. I have photos of it from a Kolb Homecoming and Monument Valley. I was going to attach them but they are large and I would have been yelled at. If you want them I will send them to you direct.


Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC


On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 5:50 AM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
We did not build this aircraft.  The kit was started by Lisa Turner and she was written up in Sport Aviation because she had built a Pulsar prior to starting on the Kolb Mark III X.  The project was picked up by a fellow in Texas and completed in 2006, 6+ years after kit was sold.  It has the 81HP Rotax 912 with a BRS chute, strobes, encoding altimeter, intercom, Garmin GPS and Nav Com.  It has the 19 gallon aluminum tank.


In the paperwork, we found a weight and balance that showed total weight of 748 and gross weight of 1150.  There is no paperwork that we were delivered or found as to how the gross weight was set at 1150.  


It is a nice looking aircraft with outstanding paint work and has only been flown about 200 hours.  We are replacing the brake tubing with new nut/ferrules and then intend on weighing it to determine the current data.  My aircraft co-owner weighs 170 and I weigh 235 so it is unlikely that we will be flying together (until I loose some weight).


Thanks for your reply, Rick.


[img]cid:part2.9A38BFE3.CA915A1A(at)gmail.com[/img]




On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:30 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
John


748 pounds seems a bit high. My VW powered MKIIIC weighs 588 pounds. My plane is fully enclosed, it has a VW it has a bunch of things that make it heavier but I worked very hard to make it as light as possible. Most of these things you can do now to make your plane lighter. My hard and fast rule was if it didn't NEED to be on my plane it got removed. There are thousands of things. Like, there is a recoil start guide ring and starter rope pulley mount, cut them off. Never use washers to fix a bolt that is too long. never have bolt showing more than 1 1/2 threads. I also changed to a lithium FE starting battery that weighs about one pound. Again there are thousand of things that will make your plane lighter and fly better but never ever make it weaker or less safe.


As for the gross weight it was and still is 1000 lbs. Yes there is considerable margen for being slammed around in rough air for thousands of hours. I added a few things to the wings to strengthen the outer ribs and added jury struts. I have increased my gross weight to 1050 pounds and some have gone to as much as 1200 pounds but is that safe? As the builder I'm comfortable with 1050 lbs and have flown in smooth air and being gentle on the controls with close to 1200 lbs but on a regular basis no way. How well was yours built? Do you know? It really isn't worth gambling a love one's life.


Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
South Venice, FL


On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 6:24 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100 pounds.


http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm



Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds.   "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"


John
Punta Gorda, FL


On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com (jbdarke(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.  The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).


Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft.  The original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490 pounds.


I also saw 1150 as gross weight.  Comments will be welcome.

















Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List



047662.jpg
 Description:
 Filesize:  242.99 KB
 Viewed:  731 Time(s)

047662.jpg


Back to top
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:29 am    Post subject: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

Charlie/All

Good point. I should have said there is no additional paperwork required
for setting the max gross weight over Kolb's recommended max weight during
the certification process.

I changed my gross weight from 1000 to 1050 when I changed from a direct
drive VW to the Redrive VW. I notified the FAA and went through the test
flight stage again but there was no approval or justification paperwork for
the increased weight.

The message should be it is legal to set your weight weight more than what
Kolb recommends but you are saying you know more about the planes
limitations than Kolb designers (Homer and Dennis) did.

Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 12:04 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
wrote:

[quote] Uh, clarification needed. There's *always* paperwork with stuff the FAA
touches. You're correct that the builder could set gross weight at any
number he could get past the inspector, but there was paperwork when the
plane was issued its experimental a/w certificate. There was more when the
test time was finished, and the test time *legally* have included flying
the plane while loaded to its gross weight and c/g limits. If you want to
change gross weight on an already certificated a/c, there's more paperwork
(and test time) involved.

No doubt Rick knows all this, but newbies might misinterpret the 'no
paperwork' phrasing.

Charlie
On 2/9/2018 10:37 AM, Rick Neilsen wrote:

John

There is no paperwork involved with setting the gross weight. It is a
experimental so the builder just specifies what they think the max weight
should be.

I know your plane. I don't know much about the build quality but it is
beautiful. The only thing I remember about it was that it had a too small
rudder trim tab. The owner had bent the tab 90+ degrees as a attempt to get
sufficient trim. I have photos of it from a Kolb Homecoming and Monument
Valley. I was going to attach them but they are large and I would have been
yelled at. If you want them I will send them to you direct.

Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC

On Fri, Feb 9, 2018 at 5:50 AM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> We did not build this aircraft. The kit was started by Lisa Turner and
> she was written up in Sport Aviation because she had built a Pulsar prior
> to starting on the Kolb Mark III X. The project was picked up by a fellow
> in Texas and completed in 2006, 6+ years after kit was sold. It has the
> 81HP Rotax 912 with a BRS chute, strobes, encoding altimeter, intercom,
> Garmin GPS and Nav Com. It has the 19 gallon aluminum tank.
>
> In the paperwork, we found a weight and balance that showed total weight
> of 748 and gross weight of 1150. There is no paperwork that we were
> delivered or found as to how the gross weight was set at 1150.
>
> It is a nice looking aircraft with outstanding paint work and has only
> been flown about 200 hours. We are replacing the brake tubing with new
> nut/ferrules and then intend on weighing it to determine the current data.
> My aircraft co-owner weighs 170 and I weigh 235 so it is unlikely that we
> will be flying together (until I loose some weight).
>
> Thanks for your reply, Rick.
> ​
>
> On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 11:30 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> John
>>
>> 748 pounds seems a bit high. My VW powered MKIIIC weighs 588 pounds. My
>> plane is fully enclosed, it has a VW it has a bunch of things that make it
>> heavier but I worked very hard to make it as light as possible. Most of
>> these things you can do now to make your plane lighter. My hard and fast
>> rule was if it didn't NEED to be on my plane it got removed. There are
>> thousands of things. Like, there is a recoil start guide ring and starter
>> rope pulley mount, cut them off. Never use washers to fix a bolt that is
>> too long. never have bolt showing more than 1 1/2 threads. I also changed
>> to a lithium FE starting battery that weighs about one pound. Again there
>> are thousand of things that will make your plane lighter and fly better but
>> never ever make it weaker or less safe.
>>
>> As for the gross weight it was and still is 1000 lbs. Yes there is
>> considerable margen for being slammed around in rough air for thousands of
>> hours. I added a few things to the wings to strengthen the outer ribs and
>> added jury struts. I have increased my gross weight to 1050 pounds and some
>> have gone to as much as 1200 pounds but is that safe? As the builder I'm
>> comfortable with 1050 lbs and have flown in smooth air and being gentle on
>> the controls with close to 1200 lbs but on a regular basis no way. How
>> well was yours built? Do you know? It really isn't worth gambling a love
>> one's life.
>>
>> Rick Neilsen
>> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
>> South Venice, FL
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 6:24 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Looking at the web site, it says 1000 pound gross and later says 1100
>>> pounds.
>>>
>>> http://www.kolbaircraft.com/markiiixtra.htm
>>>
>>> Somewhere, I have seen 1150 pounds. "Do I hear 1200 pounds?"
>>>
>>> John
>>> Punta Gorda, FL
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 8, 2018 at 5:12 PM, John Darke <jbdarke(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just purchased a Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax and BRS Chute.
>>>> The weight and balance indicates a total weight of 748 pounds (seems high).
>>>>
>>>> Can someone comment on the gross weight of this aircraft. The
>>>> original Gross Weight I saw was 1000 pounds with an empty weight of 490
>>>> pounds.
>>>>
>>>> I also saw 1150 as gross weight. Comments will be welcome.
>>>>
>>>>
<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon> Virus-free


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
Rex Rodebush



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 166
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Re: Kolb Mark III Xtra with 81 HP Rotax Reply with quote

I'm not sure anyone really knows what the actual ultimate load limit is. To my knowledge there has not been a documented sandbag test to failure or a three dimensional finite element analysis to determine what component fails first, where and at what load. Quick calculations can be made for the spar and strut loading and I'm sure they were done at some time but those are not exact.

If I'm wrong please let me know.


- The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kolb-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group