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victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:56 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

My proposed order of modifications is as follows:

First, I want to put the windshield on, because that is one of the big differences between a "normal" Kolb and mine. Perhaps this will push the nose down a little bit. It will also add a few pounds to the front, which cannot hurt. John H mentioned that it was unlikely that the windshield would make a big difference, so I am not expecting a miracle, but the windshield adds comfort anyway and it's easy to put it on. 

Second, if the windshield does not do much, I will try the suggestion that John H and several others made, droop the ailerons a tiny little bit at a time and see if that brings the nose down. If it does bring the nose down without making the Firestar  noticeably slower, then I will continue drooping the ailerons and lowering the stabilizer angle a little bit at a time. That will make a lot of people less nervous about this particular Kolb.

Although the CG is within the factory spec, the third option is that I can start looking into what it will take to move the fuel tanks forward. This is not the most desirable option for me, because it will require structural modification and cutting perfectly good fabric off of the fuselage. But the way it is now I cannot allow other pilots lighter than me to fly the aircraft safely, and if I keep losing weight like I should then it will get closer and closer to being tail-heavy for real. This also seems to not make sense, because no other Kolbs that I know of NEEDED to move the fuel forward. I have seen website photos of Kolb owners that did it, but there are hundreds and hundreds of Kolbs that did not NEED this in order to balance the aircraft.

There are several other options and possibilities, but none of these directly answer the big mystery of how and why a Firestar that is within the factory CG range, with a 210 pound pilot, would need a nose-down push on the stick.

Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities

--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 8/20/18, Bill Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:

 Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Date: Monday, August 20, 2018, 8:30 PM

 Berle <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>

 Guys thank you all again for going down

 this bizarre rabbit hole with me.

 The aircraft flies reasonably well as

 it is now, with stabilizer jacked up "way too high" and

 additional trim tabs on the elevator. If I lowered the

 stabilizer back down then I would be going back to holding a

 lot of forward pressure on the stick, which I do not need or

 want to do.The only other option is a very very large trim

 tab ont he elevator, which would likely be 10-12% of the

 size of the elevator. This is also a lot less desirable to

 me. A large trim tab adds weight on the un-safe side of the

 elevator (for flutter issues),a nd also drags in the weeds

 when you are on the ground.

 Again, as it is right now I have 4

 degrees of positive "decalage" angle at my current setting.

 This is relatively safe and very similar to Cessnas and J-3

 Cubs and other "regular" airplanes.This tells me that the

 stock plans-built Kolb has something a lot more than that,

 maybe 8 or 10 degrees of decalage??? Wouldn't THAT sound

 excessive ?

 I have not heard back from Duane at

 Kolb Aircraft. When we last spoke he said he would talk with

 Bryan and get back to me via e-mail. I have no idea if they

 have just not gotten to it yet, or whether Bryan decideed

 that me and my airplane were just too crazy to get involved

 with 

 Forgive me for being repetitive, but

 for reference, at this stage we have the following known

 configuration:

 Wing incidence measurement is almost

 perfectly matched to the measurement given to me by Duane at

 Kolb.

 Tail boom tube length has not been

 shortened form a stock Firestar 2.

 Fuselage tube structure is not

 obviously bent or patched, so the "upward angle" of the boom

 tube is likely the same as a stock FS2.

 Weight and balance verified at 34.15%

 of chord, clearly within Kolb's acceptable range for safe

 filght (20-37 %).

 One or two people have suggested that

 perhaps my exhaust coming out of the muffler is creating

 anose-up pitch, because the muffler is underneath the

 aircraft. I do not believe this is the case, because I have

 flown at low power settings, and the nose did not fall

 downward (which it would have done if the muffler "thrust"

 was lifting the nose).

 Perhaps all the effort I put in over

 months of screwing around, to keep the thrust line as low as

 possible, has hurt me ? If the Kolb wing and stabilizer

 angle were designed for a thrust line that was farther above

 the aircraft , and mine is a lot lower, then THAT would

 perhaps explain how there is a nose-up pitch... because the

 designers at Kolb were assuming I would have a higher thrust

 line that would push the nose down some ???

 My thurst line (center of propeller) is

 33.25 inches above the TOP of the tailboom tube. Is this

 significantly LOWER than most of the other Firestars? What

 is the height of the center or the prop above other Kolbers

 Firestar tailboom tubes?

 If everybody else's thrust line is 36

 or 38 inches above the tailoom tube, then everyone else

 would have the engine pushing the nose down more than I do.

 If Kolb designed the Firestar's wing and tail angles for a

 thrust oline that was 36 or 38 inches high, and I only have

 33.25 inches, then at least THAT would explain why my

 aircraft wanted to pitch upward and the other Kolbers don't

 have that problem.

 Another possibility is that having any

 windshield on the aircraft creates a nose-down pitch, and

 since I have no windshield then that nose-down pitch is

 missing on my aircraft.Again this sounds implausible, but it

 would explain this strange situation.

 Also, I have never flown mine without

 the VG's on the wing or tail. I had them on the first

 flight. Any Kolbers who have installed VG's... did this

 cause your aircraft to start pitching up where it did not do

 that without VG's???

 Bill Berle

 www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety &

 performance upgrade for light aircraft

 www.grantstar.net           -

 winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities

 --------------------------------------------

 On Mon, 8/20/18, George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>

 wrote:

  Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer

 Angle

  To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

  Date: Monday, August 20, 2018, 7:51

 PM

 George

  Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>

  Bill, those figures don’t sound

 that

  bad to me. I’m running a different

 engine of course. My

  original Firestar’s best climb rate

 is right at 45/46 mph.

  Straight and level 5500 rpm in calm

 air is 64/66 mph. That

  does require lots of forward stick

 pressure. It likes to

  cruise at 4800 to 5200rpm (at) 52/55 mph.

 Obviously we’re

  running two completely different

 engines. My max. hp is 40 (at)

  5500rpm, that’s what I consider max.

 rpm even though

  it’s actually 5800. My max. torque

 is 49ft.lbs (at) 4800.

  So, airframe-wise( I don’t think

  that’s actually a word?) I think the

 performance numbers

  are in the ballpark. It would be nice

 to bring the

  horizontal stabilizer back where it

 belongs. But, it’s

  your decision. Keep tinkering. And

 enjoy some flying. 

  Aero liftstruts? They claim 6 to 8

 mph.

  But, that sounds alittle iffy to me?

 But, I did order a set

  of 3:1 aero fairings for mine so

 I’ll let you know how

  they work, like maybe next week. I

 think I just threw some

  money down the drain?

  George H. 

  Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth 

  14GDH 

  Mesick, Michigan 

  gdhelton(at)gmail.com

  Sent from my iPhone

  > On Aug 20, 2018, at 9:58 PM,

 Bill

  <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>

  wrote:

  > 

  > --> Kolb-List message posted

  by: Bill <victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net>

  > 

  > Full throttle on takeoff and

  climbout  gives me 5700-5800 rpm

 which is max

  continuous power. This yields 40-45mph

 climbing. I have not

  done extended full power in level

 flight yet but based on

  what I have seen so far I would expect

 50-52mph and 6000

  rpm. Brand new Tiny Tach installed per

 direct verbal

  installation  instructions on the

 phone with their tech

  guy. Airspeed indicator tested with

 this same air probe

  stuck out thru the car sunroof,

 measured same as my car

  speedometer. Unless experienced

 Kolbers suggest otherwise, I

  will put on the short windshield as

 the next change. How

  much speed is typical improvement

 going from round to

  streamline struts??

  > 

  > Sent from my Samsung

 Captivate(tm)

  on AT&T

  > 

  > Stuart Harner <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>

  wrote:

  > 

  >> --> Kolb-List message

  posted by: "Stuart Harner" <stuart(at)harnerfarm.net>

  >> 

  >> Bill,

  >> 

  >> Very glad it is not a CG

  problem and that it has been

 definitively ruled out. Sorry

  for the extra work, but the symptoms

 called for the effort

  to be expended.

  >> 

  >> So now, we know that

 changing

  the angle of the horizontal

 stabilizers helped with the

  issue considerably even if it is "out

 of spec".

  >> 

  >> We have already discussed

 the

  wing center section gap seal, and that

 would be my next area

  of experimentation. After all you can

 change that without

  making any structural changes and it

 is easy to go back to

  what you have.

  >> 

  >> Another thought has occurred

  to me about your low airspeeds. A few

 questions:

  >> 

  >> Have you done a static full

  power run to make sure you are getting

 proper RPM's?

  >> Or 

  >> Have you done a full power

 run

  in the air while straight and level?

  >> 

  >> Have you confirmed your

  tachometer with another device?

  >> 

  >> Have you confirmed your ASI

 (I

  know you changed the pitot/static

 setup) to verify that you

  are truly getting what you are

 seeing?

  >> 

  >> Idea for next flight. While

  straight and level, go to full

 throttle and see what

  happens. You only have to maintain it

 long enough to get a

  stable tachometer reading and to see

 what forces are

  required at the stick.

  >> 

  >> At this point I am just

  tossing out random thoughts in hopes

 that something ticks in

  your mind to say "hey, what if I did

 this?".

  >> 

  >> Hang in there, we're all

  pulling for you to figure this out.

  >> 

  >> Some people like mysteries,

 I

  rather tent to like the solutions!

  >> 

  >> Keep us informed,

  >> 

  >> Stuart 

  >> 

  >> --

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 9:26 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Bill, Can't speak for the Firestar but I expect it would be similar to the Mk III. A proper gap seal and covering the lower frame on the Mk III DOUBLED its climb rate and greatly relieved stick pressure. The PFH had the opposite pitch issue, she was a lawn dart. I reset the wing angle of incidence to the least angle recommended by Kolb and lowered the horizontal stabilizer incidence and she still needed small trim tabs on the elevators. Then she flew with fingertip pressure on the stick.When you do get the HS where you want it, consider making seals for the gap between the HS and the boom tube. If it responds like the Mk III you'll find the rudder effectiveness much improved, to the point that you can level the wings while in a stall just like a 172, something a stock Mk III will not do.

Rick Girard

On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 11:41 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net (thegreybaron(at)charter.net)>

 

 Adding VG's to the wing or the underside of the stab/elevator causes no pitch change.

 

 --------

 Richard Pike

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal  w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax 277

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 

 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=482602#482602

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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-- 

“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx

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_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2018 10:10 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Thank you Rick, but can you clarify what you mean by covering the lower frame? Do you mean the lower fuselage frame below the fuel tanks, or are you referring to the frame behind the cockpit under the wing, or something else.



I have taped up the gap between the wing and aileron, including the torque tube. It seemed to make a difference but I was not set up for measuring anything.



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 8/21/18, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

 To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: Tuesday, August 21, 2018, 9:00 AM

 

 Bill, Can't speak

 for the Firestar but I expect it would be similar to the Mk

 III. A proper gap seal and covering the lower frame on the

 Mk III DOUBLED its climb rate and greatly relieved stick

 pressure. The PFH had the opposite pitch issue, she was a

 lawn dart. I reset the wing angle of incidence to the least

 angle recommended by Kolb and lowered the horizontal

 stabilizer incidence and she still needed small trim tabs on

 the elevators. Then she flew with fingertip pressure on the

 stick.When you do get the HS where you want it,

 consider making seals for the gap between the HS and the

 boom tube. If it responds like the Mk III you'll find

 the rudder effectiveness much improved, to the point that

 you can level the wings while in a stall just like a 172,

 something a stock Mk III will not do.

 Rick Girard

 On Mon, Aug 20, 2018

 at 11:41 PM, Richard Pike <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>

 wrote:

 

 "Richard Pike" <thegreybaron(at)charter.net>

 

 

 

 Adding VG's to the wing or the underside of the

 stab/elevator causes no pitch change.

 

 

 

 --------

 

 Richard Pike

 

 Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 

 Kolb Firefly Part 103 legal  w/incredibly obnoxious Rotax

 277

 

 Kingsport, TN 3TN0

 

 

 

 Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and

 God's grace really is amazing.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/

 viewtopic.php?p=482602#482602

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ==== ============================== ==

 

 -List" rel="noreferrer"

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/

 Navigator?Kolb-List

 

 ==== ============================== ==

 

  FORUMS -

 

 eferrer"

 target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 

 ==== ============================== ==

 

 WIKI -

 

 errer"

 target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 

 ==== ============================== ==

 

 b Site -

 

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 

 rel="noreferrer"

 target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/

 contribution

 

 ==== ============================== ==

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 -- 

 “Blessed

 are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho

 Marx

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:48 am Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Rick G/Kolbers:

 

Elevator hinges are very difficult to mount exactly centered.  The result is a little fore and aft motion of the horizontal stabilizer.  How do you compensate for that fore and aft movement with tail boom gap seals?

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:01 AM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle



 

When you do get the HS where you want it, consider making seals for the gap between the HS and the boom tube. If it responds like the Mk III you'll find the rudder effectiveness much improved, to the point that you can level the wings while in a stall just like a 172, something a stock Mk III will not do.



 



Rick Girard

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:50 am Post subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Use a strip of thin aluminum angle, taper it so the front is wider than the rear. Paint it to match your airplane and glue a length of rubber u-channel along the outside edge to barely touch the stab. Allows the stab to move fore and aft a bit, and also to fold.

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_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:02 am Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

On Wed, 8/22/18, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:



" Elevator hinges are very difficult to mount exactly centered.  The result is a little fore and aft motion of the horizontal stabilizer.  How do you compensate for that fore and aft movement with tail boom gap

 seals?  "



Now I understand why the stabilizer front attach brackets have a little fore-aft wiggle room in them. I always wondered why there was that extra space.



Forgive the intrusion, I cannot answer for Rick, but I can add something similar that works from my experience with gliders. We use "wiper seals" or "wiper fairings" on a lot of control surfaces. The sealing material or fairing attached to one of the surfaces and just SLIDES on the other moving part with a small amount of pressure holding it in place. 



Same principle as a garage door seal, where it cannot be attached to both the garage door and the floor. So the  bottom of the seal slides on the floor as you open the garage door.



In the case of the Kolb stabilizer, the seal also has to allow the stabilizer to fold upward for storage.



One easy way to do this is to put weatherstrip foam tape on the "root rib" tube of the stabilizer. Use thick enough weatherstrip that the non-adhesive edge of the tape contacts the tailboom tube. Apply a layer of smooth tape over this weatherstripping such that it is "wrapped around" from the top edge of the stabilizer around the weatherstrip and then down around to the bottom edge of the stabilizer. 



The tape is stuck only to the stabilizer and the weatherstrip, and it is NOT stuck or attached to the boom tube. The outside non-sticky smooth side of the tape slides against the boom tube, held in place by the weatherstripping foam as a "spring".



So when the stabilizer moves fore and aft the tape just slides agaainst the boom tube, and when you fold up the tail for storage the seal just rotates out of the way without interfering with the folding.



Because the stabilizer is at some angle to the boom tube, you may have to trim and shape the weatherstrip to fit against the curve of the tube... do all of this before you apply the outer layer of tape.



In practice it may turn out to be easier or more durable to mount the seal to the boom tube instead of the stabilizer root, but the principle would be the same. Slight pressure from the squishy foam weatherstrip pressing lightly against the root edge of the stabilizer. I won't know which side is better to mount the seal on until I start making seals for mine, but I am pretty confident that the principle will work.

Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

Rex Rodebush

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 209
Location: Branson West area, Missouri

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:44 am Post subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Richard and all,



I have gap seals on everything but the horiz. stabilizer to tube.  Have had no problems with the rudder but am wondering if it would be worth it to add the gap seal?

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:18 am Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Never encountered a problem with any of my Kolbs or others because they did not have gap seals on horizontal stabilizer/tail boom or elevator/horizontal stabilizer.  Not saying that it would not improve performance, but I haven't found a requirement to do so.  Sort of like VGs.  Over 3.400.0 hours without them.  No problems flying.  After installation of VGs there was an improvement in stall speed, slow speed flight, and landing.  These were small improvements to an already excellent flying aircraft.



One mph, more or less, improvement if stall speed when the aircraft is stalling at 30-32 mph without them really isn't a big improvement, but it is an improvement.  What difference is it going to make in the long run?



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:27 am Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

On Wed, 8/22/18, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com> wrote:



  What difference is it going to make in the long run?



I have no idea, it was only in response to another post regarding the tail seal. I have no idea whatsoever if it is worthwhile aerodynamically. I think he commented that a seal might make his fin or rudder more effective???



Bill Berle

www.ezflaphandle.com  - safety & performance upgrade for light aircraft

www.grantstar.net           - winning proposals for non-profit and for-profit entities



--------------------------------------------

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

The only reason I gap sealed my stab to the boom tube was to possibly cut down on drag. 

Nothing changed. Flies exactly the same.

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Jerry-TS-MkII

Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 79
Location: Indiana

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:00 am Post subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Richard,

Re: You can do a pretty good job of streamlining the round lift struts with a length of aluminum flashing, folded over and JB Welded (Liquid Nails, double stick carpet tape, etc) to your strut, with some aluminum duct tape around the front side to seal it up. You only fair the rear side. Not ideal, but a great improvement over a round tube.



Or you can get really serious like Jack Hart: http://jackbhart.com/firefly/firefly91.html



I did look at his link.  And it makes me CRINGE when I think of someone A) sealing up their most important part, and B) after sanding on the aluminum with a drywall sponge block.  Every scratch, (or carbon pencil mark) on aluminum, is where it will break later!!



I have done lots of progressive composite work.  The example shown was one piece, with walls as thick as paper, and it weighed the same as one sheet of paper too.  While it's not a strut cover application, I'll be making similar sections which are slightly thicker, removable, and won't be scratching the struts either!  My stabilizer gap seal will look like the aluminum one posted recently, but will also be of composite materials.  Great stuff, no corrosion, no stress fractures!

Jerry

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John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:32 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

I think I was talking about a mph or two stall speed when I am already at 30-32 mph.



How accurate is my ASI indicator at those slow speeds?



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama





--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 2:35 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

As I has said many times, the Kolb is the epitome of drag.  Lift struts and

a 4 inch faring on the windshield did more than anything else on my FS.

After that, forget it.  On the other hand fat tires/small tires made no

difference.  I flew one Alaska flight with 6x6 tires and the next with 8x6.

Absolutely no difference.



john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama



--

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Jerry-TS-MkII

Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 79
Location: Indiana

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:27 pm Post subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic.  The fairings look great, but $$$$$!



http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm



Jerry

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.



http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html



On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic.  The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

 

 http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

 

 Jerry

gdhelton(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:48 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Hi Jerry, I ordered a set of the 3:1 strut fairings last week from U-FLY-IT. They’re suppose to be be here tomorrow. I’ll let you know how they are. I’m not real sure that the increase in performance will be worth the cost? Time will tell I guess. They seem like good people and they cut them to the length that requested. No charge. That aero strut tubing looks real interesting. I just don’t know how they would compare the stock Kolb struts. Maybe someone could way in on that?George H. 

Firestar, FS100, 2702 Hirth 

14GDH 

Mesick, Michigan 

gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)



Sent from my iPhone



On Aug 23, 2018, at 4:34 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Here are some streamline struts, if anyone is interested.



http://www.carlsonaircraft.com/struts.html



On Thu, Aug 23, 2018 at 3:27 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Since several people on here were talking about strut fairings.. I just saw this link via another post, with a different topic.  The fairings look great, but $$$$$!

 

 http://uflyit.com/streamline_fairings.htm

 

 Jerry

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:34 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

I shimmed the elevator so that it aligned with the pivot bolt. That eliminated the small up and down movement of the horizontal stabilizer.



Rick

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 6:48 AM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Rick G/Kolbers:

 

Elevator hinges are very difficult to mount exactly centered.  The result is a little fore and aft motion of the horizontal stabilizer.  How do you compensate for that fore and aft movement with tail boom gap seals?

 

john h

mkIII

Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Richard Girard

Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2018 11:01 AM

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com (kolb-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle



 

When you do get the HS where you want it, consider making seals for the gap between the HS and the boom tube. If it responds like the Mk III you'll find the rudder effectiveness much improved, to the point that you can level the wings while in a stall just like a 172, something a stock Mk III will not do.



 



Rick Girard



 



 



	




-- 

“Blessed are the cracked, for they shall let in the light.”   Groucho Marx

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: Kolb-List:Stabilizer Angle

Part of the PFH experience was to qualify it for a higher maximum take off weight. With me and four 80 lb bags of cement I flew it at 1280 lb. Part of the qualification was to establish its handling in a stall. I climbed the aircraft to 4000 ft. slowed it to stall and held it there. Descent rate was somewhere north of 1000 ft per minute. I held it for over 1000 ft using only the rudder to keep the wings level. As I said, just like I did it in a 172. Before I put the seals on the horizontal stabilizer I was unable to do that at normal loading. If I recall this was noted by Rev. Pike in his Mk III as well.



Rick

On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 5:35 PM, John Hauck <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)>

 

 As I has said many times, the Kolb is the epitome of drag.  Lift struts and

 a 4 inch faring on the windshield did more than anything else on my FS.

 After that, forget it.  On the other hand fat tires/small tires made no

 difference.  I flew one Alaska flight with 6x6 tires and the next with 8x6.

 Absolutely no difference.

 

 john h

 mkIII

 Titus, Alabama

 

 

 

 --

_________________
The smallest miracle right in front of you is enough to make you happy....

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