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operating a relay with a cell phone

 
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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

I bought a GSM Gate Opener GSM Remote Switch RTU5024, figuring I would use it to control a DPST relay on the plug-in wire to my Tanis pre-heat system, allowing me to turn it on and off using my cell phone.

It has two inputs for 12v DC (+ and -) to power it. The other connections are labeled NO COM NC. 
I understand that NO means "normally open" COM means "common" and NC means "normally closed" I am not clear as to how I would incorporate a relay for turning my 110 volt circuit on and off. If the kind soul who helps could include a recommendation as to the specific relay, that would be great! Please help this dummy.
Ken


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
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Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Here is a schematic diagram.
I assume that the relay is built into the RTU5024.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:59 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

On 12/4/2018 6:01 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
Quote:
I bought a GSM Gate Opener GSM Remote Switch RTU5024, figuring I would
use it to control a DPST relay on the plug-in wire to my Tanis
pre-heat system, allowing me to turn it on and off using my cell phone.

It has two inputs for 12v DC (+ and -) to power it. The other
connections are labeled NO COM NC.

I understand that NO means "normally open" COM means "common" and NC
means "normally closed" I am not clear as to how I would incorporate a
relay for turning my 110 volt circuit on and off. If the kind soul who
helps could include a recommendation as to the specific relay, that
would be great! Please help this dummy.

Ken

Hi Ken,


If it's this model:
https://www.amazon.com/Opener-Remote-Access-Sliding-RTU5024/dp/B07BT3N4QM/ref=asc_df_B07BT3N4QM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241942959786&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9161805644825714517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9013952&hvtargid=pla-458426103553&psc=1

one of the images on that page shows the relay as having 'dry' contacts.
See the image the shows 220VAC feeding through the NO / COM contacts to
run a motor. You can wire 110VAC the same way to your heater. *BUT* :
you need to find the current rating of the relay contacts, to be sure
you won't be overloading them with your heater. If the heater load
exceeds the relay contact rating, you can still use it by adding a
heavier external relay, driven by the relay in the opener. You'll likely
have to configure the switch to be continuous 'on' instead of momentary
'on' which would be the case for a gate controller.

Check back if you need a wiring diagram for an external relay.

Charlie
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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
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Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

How many watts is the Tanis heater? If it is 400 watts or more, then a heavy duty relay needs to be added.

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kenryan



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:30 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Joe, the Tanis is only 230 watts, but I'm reluctant to use the RTU5024 as the main relay. I was planning to use a separate heavy duty relay for the main relay, and use the RTU5024 to control it. Can you show me how I would do that (control a relay with a relay)? Also if you could give me a Mouser part number for an appropriate relay, that would really fix me up.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:16 PM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

How many watts is the Tanis heater?  If it is 400 watts or more, then a heavy duty relay needs to be added.

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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Charlie, yes I think that is what I need. A wiring diagram for using a separate relay. The RTU5024 is programmable to be on for a set period of time. It can also be programmed to only accept command from authorized numbers, etc. And supposedly I don't need a phone plan for it, only a sim card. If it works out as I hope, it will be really neat.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:03 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

On 12/4/2018 6:01 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:
> I bought a GSM Gate Opener GSM Remote Switch RTU5024, figuring I would
> use it to control a DPST relay on the plug-in wire to my Tanis
> pre-heat system, allowing me to turn it on and off using my cell phone.
>
> It has two inputs for 12v DC (+ and -) to power it. The other
> connections are labeled NO COM NC.
>
> I understand that NO means "normally open" COM means "common" and NC
> means "normally closed" I am not clear as to how I would incorporate a
> relay for turning my 110 volt circuit on and off. If the kind soul who
> helps could include a recommendation as to the specific relay, that
> would be great! Please help this dummy.
>
> Ken
>
>
>
Hi Ken,

If it's this model:
https://www.amazon.com/Opener-Remote-Access-Sliding-RTU5024/dp/B07BT3N4QM/ref=asc_df_B07BT3N4QM/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=241942959786&hvpos=1o2&hvnetw=g&hvrand=9161805644825714517&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9013952&hvtargid=pla-458426103553&psc=1

one of the images on that page shows the relay as having 'dry' contacts.
See the image the shows 220VAC feeding through the NO / COM contacts to
run a motor. You can wire 110VAC the same way to your heater. *BUT* :
you need to find the current rating of the relay contacts, to be sure
you won't be overloading them with your heater. If the heater load
exceeds the relay contact rating, you can still use it by adding a
heavier external relay, driven by the relay in the opener. You'll likely
have to configure the switch to be continuous 'on' instead of momentary
'on' which would be the case for a gate controller.

Check back if you need a wiring diagram for an external relay.

Charlie


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

I know that it isn't as much fun as building something cool out of a cell phone radio and a relay, but you can just buy a mechanical thermostat for next to nothing. Here is one for $27 at Grainger https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Line-Volt-Mechanical-Tstat-2E815
    -- Art Z.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store.
Ignore the B beside the battery.


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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Art, my goal is not to regulate the temperature of the engine, it is to control the on/off switch via cell phone, so that I can phone in the night before and the engine will be toasty the next morning, ready for service.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:49 PM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
I know that it isn't as much fun as building something cool out of a cell phone radio and a relay, but you can just buy a mechanical thermostat for next to nothing. Here is one for $27 at Grainger https://www.grainger.com/product/DAYTON-Line-Volt-Mechanical-Tstat-2E815
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."




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kenryan



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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Okay, so an automotive relay like we would use on our airplanes would be okay for this application, too. I have a few lying around.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:52 PM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store.
Ignore the B beside the battery.

--------
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:47 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Well it would work.
But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't
rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance
investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating
device when no one is around entails some risk anyway...
Ken

On 2018-12-04 11:16 p.m., Ken Ryan wrote:
Quote:
Okay, so an automotive relay like we would use on our airplanes would be
okay for this application, too. I have a few lying around.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 6:52 PM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com
<mailto:fransew(at)gmail.com>> wrote:


<fransew(at)gmail.com <mailto:fransew(at)gmail.com>>

You can buy a 30 amp relay at an auto parts store.
Ignore the B beside the battery.

--------
Joe Gores




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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

At 06:46 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com>

Well it would work.
But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating device when no one is around entails some risk anyway...
Ken

The S704 style plastic relays are quite
suited to this task. According to the
users manual, output from the device
is a set of form-c dry contacts rated
at 3A so a 'buffer relay' is called for.

Consider a solid state device like this

https://tinyurl.com/y9qh9wq4

You can use the n.o./common contacts
of the receiver to control power to
the SSR input. You can 'steal' power
from the same supply that operates the
receiver.

There are no regulatory issues (aside
from local fire marshals) for this
project. If it's not bolted to the airframe,
it's of no interest to the feds.

I'd mount the receiver and solid state relay
on the wall of the hangar and provide an
outlet to an extension cord that powers
the Tanis heater in its normal operating
configuration. Risks (beyond failure to
function) are zero.



Bob . . .


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kenryan



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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:53 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe.

On Tue, Dec 4, 2018 at 5:04 PM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

Here is a schematic diagram.

--------
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Okay change of plan, thanks much Bob.
Ken
On Wed, Dec 5, 2018, 06:58 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) wrote:

Quote:
At 06:46 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Ken <yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com (yellowduckduo(at)gmail.com)>

Well it would work.
But would not be legal or particularly fire safe as it certainly isn't rated for 120 volts. Definitely the kind of thing that an insurance investigator likes to find. Of course turning on any kind of heating device when no one is around entails some risk anyway...
Ken

  The S704 style plastic relays are quite
  suited to this task. According to the
  users manual, output from the device
  is a set of form-c dry contacts rated
  at 3A so a 'buffer relay' is called for.

  Consider a solid state device like this

https://tinyurl.com/y9qh9wq4

  You can use the n.o./common contacts
  of the receiver to control power to
  the SSR input. You can 'steal' power
  from the same supply that operates the
  receiver.

  There are no regulatory issues (aside
  from local fire marshals) for this
  project. If it's not bolted to the airframe,
  it's of no interest to the feds.

  I'd mount the receiver and solid state relay
  on the wall of the hangar and provide an
  outlet to an extension cord that powers
  the Tanis heater in its normal operating
  configuration. Risks (beyond failure to
  function) are zero.



  Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:45 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe.

Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . .
one COULD use the receiver's built in
relay although I'd still tend toward adding
the buffer relay with the following caveats:

Current through the receiver's relay contacts
is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some
period of time in service, corrosion build on
the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the
n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but
still something to throw in the trouble-shooting
bucket if the critter quits.

If you elect to use the built in relay, then
contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I
think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac
power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason,
current in that loop is faulted, it would
be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal
relay (probably not easy to replace).

Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
a lot more heat but they had to play catchup
in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night
may well be enough. Learned something new today.



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:01 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

On 12/5/2018 12:45 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

Quote:
At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe.

Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A? Hmmm . . .
one COULD use the receiver's built in
relay although I'd still tend toward adding
the buffer relay with the following caveats:

Current through the receiver's relay contacts
is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some
period of time in service, corrosion build on
the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the
n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but
still something to throw in the trouble-shooting
bucket if the critter quits.

If you elect to use the built in relay, then
contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I
think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac
power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason,
current in that loop is faulted, it would
be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal
relay (probably not easy to replace).

Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
a lot more heat but they had to play catchup
in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night
may well be enough. Learned something new today.



Bob . . .
Probably using something like this:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB
bonded directly to the oil pan.
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:59 am    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Quote:
Quote:
. .
Probably using something like this:
http://www.chiefaircraft.com/ez-440a.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiAi57gBRDqARIsABhDSMrkaMXwANnl_DM_XXVmvLX8YXFhCmJF86d9J7_YQdXyxxqLc23o_IwaAhVKEALw_wcB
bonded directly to the oil pan.

cool! Thanks!



Bob . . .


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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 310

PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Bob, the Tanis is well documented to work extremely well. There are five bolts that replace engine bolts (one for each cylinder, and one in the engine case) that act as resistance heaters and there is also a pad to heat the oil in the Rotax external oil tank, so the heat goes directly into the engine. Here is a link to a short 11:19 video showing careful testing under controlled conditions: https://rotax-owner.com/en/videos-topmenu/product-reviews/149-tanis

Ken


On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 9:51 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 09:52 AM 12/5/2018, you wrote:
Quote:
Okay, when I started this I thought, like Barry, that a second relay would be required. But thanks to Joe I now understand that the RTU5024 is well rated (3A/240AC) to handle the power required by the Tanis (2A/115AC) and so I will wire it up as he suggested, directly untilizing the relay in the RTU5024. Makes the whole thing much simpler. Thanks Joe.

  Opps . . . the Tanis only take 2A?  Hmmm . . .
  one COULD use the receiver's built in
  relay although I'd still tend toward adding
  the buffer relay with the following caveats:

  Current through the receiver's relay contacts
  is VERY low when driving an SSR . . . after some
  period of time in service, corrosion build on
  the receiver relay contacts MIGHT cause the
  n.o. contacts to go 'open'. Not likely but
  still something to throw in the trouble-shooting
  bucket if the critter quits.

  If you elect to use the built in relay, then
  contact 'cleaning' will not be an issue. I
  think I'd add a 5A fuse in series with 120vac
  power to the Tanis . . . if for whatever reason,
  current in that loop is faulted, it would
  be cool if the event didn't smoke the internal
  relay (probably not easy to replace).

  Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
  My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out
  a lot more heat but they had to play catchup
  in minutes. 250W continuously applied over-night
  may well be enough. Learned something new today.



  Bob . . .


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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

Bob,
I don't know about Tanis. I have a Reiff with a 50W band around each cylinder and a 100W pad on the oil sump.
    -- Art Z.

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:04 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
  My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:23 pm    Post subject: operating a relay with a cell phone Reply with quote

I have the Reiff turbo system with 100W cylinder bands, TWO 100w pads on the sump and a 100W pad on the oil cooler.  It's 700W. Last week I left it plugged in over night (28 degree low) and when I went flying in the morning the oil was at 121 degrees. If I plug it in before flight at that temp it's at least an hour before I'm comfortable with the engine temperature. The dragon can more or less do it in a quarter of that time.
--Rick

On 12/5/2018 3:11 PM, Art Zemon wrote:

Quote:
Bob,


I don't know about Tanis. I have a Reiff with a 50W band around each cylinder and a 100W pad on the oil sump.


    -- Art Z.

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 1:04 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Hmmmm . . . only 250 watts to heat the engine?
  My propane 'dragons' on K1K1 certainly put out






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