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Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax

 
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graeme bird



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:57 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect?

I recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and more economical with marginal difference in performance but that might have been because it was cloth and draggy.

Thanks for all the responses on recent posts and PMs, much appreciated.

I wonder how many are currently building in the UK and whether any near Milton Keynes.


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_________________
Graeme Bird
Kit 2 in build, Mono Classic 912;
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp SR3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, Smart A3
380 hours, 980t
g(@)gdbmk.co.uk
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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:49 pm    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Hello Graeme,

I have a Mono Classic with the 912 80HP engine with 3 tapered Warp Drive
blades and an Airmaster CS hub.

Whilst I cannot directly compare the 80 HP 912 to the 100HP 912S, I can
say that I (along with others) am amazed how well it performs.  The only
thing that would make me consider replacing it with the 100HP engine is
that part of flight between lift off and 90 kts.  I am perfectly happy
with the ground run but after lift off in the high drag configuration
(flaps and gear down), 60 kts is about all I can get.  I therefore
progressively start raising the gear/flaps very soon after lift off and
put them fully away at 60 kts.  Climb rate at this time is minimal as it
fairly slowly accelerates.  At 80 kts it starts to climb quite nicely
but by then I am well past the end of our 700m strip.  (Exacerbating
this situation is the fact that we almost always have a cross wind)  I
like to climb at 90 kts IAS and at AUW of 621 kg, I am astounded how
well it climbs to altitude averaging around 500 fpm and sometimes more
to 8,000 ft etc.

A mate of mine had a tri gear with the 80 HP engine and a fixed pitch
wooden propeller.  It couldn't look at mine performance wise.  I'm
therefore of the opinion a CS prop is a necessity with the 80 HP
especially in the hot conditions we have to endure over here.

I suppose this has told you very little Graeme but I wouldn't go to the
expense of purchasing a 912S without first trying the 912 you were
supplied.  If need be, swapping them over is a very simple exercise once
you have forked out the $$$£££!!

Best regards

Kingsley in Oz
On 12.01.19 8:57 pm, graeme bird wrote:-
Quote:
I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect. I recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and more economical with marginal difference in performance but that might have been because it was cloth and draggy.



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pete(at)lawless.info
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:22 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Graeme

I totally agree with Kingsley's appraisal. AC has the standard 912 UL
with a CAP 140 variable pitch prop.  This allows me to get 5,600 rpm at
start of roll, so getting as much power as possible out of the engine. 
Acceleration and climb out are no problem. The only time I would like
more power is at max weight (1,300 lbs) on a hot, cross windy day, we
then get a closer look at the far hedge that I like.  Initial climb when
clean is around 800 to 1,000 fpm. Cruise is 120 kts at 14 to 15 litres
per hour, depending on weight.  You can wind it up to 130 but the fuel
consumption increases.

Just worth checking I seem to remember that when the weight increase mod
to 1,370 lbs was introduced that the PFA would only approve it with an
80 hp engine if using a variable pitch prop.

Pete
G-RMAC Classic mono #109
On 12/01/2019 23:49, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
Quote:

<kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>

Hello Graeme,

I have a Mono Classic with the 912 80HP engine with 3 tapered Warp
Drive blades and an Airmaster CS hub.

Whilst I cannot directly compare the 80 HP 912 to the 100HP 912S, I
can say that I (along with others) am amazed how well it performs. 
The only thing that would make me consider replacing it with the 100HP
engine is that part of flight between lift off and 90 kts.  I am
perfectly happy with the ground run but after lift off in the high
drag configuration (flaps and gear down), 60 kts is about all I can
get.  I therefore progressively start raising the gear/flaps very soon
after lift off and put them fully away at 60 kts.  Climb rate at this
time is minimal as it fairly slowly accelerates.  At 80 kts it starts
to climb quite nicely but by then I am well past the end of our 700m
strip.  (Exacerbating this situation is the fact that we almost always
have a cross wind)  I like to climb at 90 kts IAS and at AUW of 621
kg, I am astounded how well it climbs to altitude averaging around 500
fpm and sometimes more to 8,000 ft etc.

A mate of mine had a tri gear with the 80 HP engine and a fixed pitch
wooden propeller.  It couldn't look at mine performance wise.  I'm
therefore of the opinion a CS prop is a necessity with the 80 HP
especially in the hot conditions we have to endure over here.

I suppose this has told you very little Graeme but I wouldn't go to
the expense of purchasing a 912S without first trying the 912 you were
supplied.  If need be, swapping them over is a very simple exercise
once you have forked out the $$$£££!!

Best regards

Kingsley in Oz
On 12.01.19 8:57 pm, graeme bird wrote:-
> I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a
> thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can
> anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect. I
> recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and
> more economical with marginal difference in performance but that
> might have been because it was cloth and draggy.
>




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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:41 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Why not fit a manual turbo to your 80hp.  Then youd have power when you need it.   Total cost about usd 5k.Will
On Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 05:24 Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info) wrote:

Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)>

Graeme

I totally agree with Kingsley's appraisal. AC has the standard 912 UL
with a CAP 140 variable pitch prop.  This allows me to get 5,600 rpm at
start of roll, so getting as much power as possible out of the engine. 
Acceleration and climb out are no problem. The only time I would like
more power is at max weight (1,300 lbs) on a hot, cross windy day, we
then get a closer look at the far hedge that I like.  Initial climb when
clean is around 800 to 1,000 fpm. Cruise is 120 kts at 14 to 15 litres
per hour, depending on weight.  You can wind it up to 130 but the fuel
consumption increases.

Just worth checking I seem to remember that when the weight increase mod
to 1,370 lbs was introduced that the PFA would only approve it with an
80 hp engine if using a variable pitch prop.

Pete
G-RMAC Classic mono #109


On 12/01/2019 23:49, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst
> <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>
>
> Hello Graeme,
>
> I have a Mono Classic with the 912 80HP engine with 3 tapered Warp
> Drive blades and an Airmaster CS hub.
>
> Whilst I cannot directly compare the 80 HP 912 to the 100HP 912S, I
> can say that I (along with others) am amazed how well it performs. 
> The only thing that would make me consider replacing it with the 100HP
> engine is that part of flight between lift off and 90 kts.  I am
> perfectly happy with the ground run but after lift off in the high
> drag configuration (flaps and gear down), 60 kts is about all I can
> get.  I therefore progressively start raising the gear/flaps very soon
> after lift off and put them fully away at 60 kts.  Climb rate at this
> time is minimal as it fairly slowly accelerates.  At 80 kts it starts
> to climb quite nicely but by then I am well past the end of our 700m
> strip.  (Exacerbating this situation is the fact that we almost always
> have a cross wind)  I like to climb at 90 kts IAS and at AUW of 621
> kg, I am astounded how well it climbs to altitude averaging around 500
> fpm and sometimes more to 8,000 ft etc.
>
> A mate of mine had a tri gear with the 80 HP engine and a fixed pitch
> wooden propeller.  It couldn't look at mine performance wise.  I'm
> therefore of the opinion a CS prop is a necessity with the 80 HP
> especially in the hot conditions we have to endure over here.
>
> I suppose this has told you very little Graeme but I wouldn't go to
> the expense of purchasing a 912S without first trying the 912 you were
> supplied.  If need be, swapping them over is a very simple exercise
> once you have forked out the $$$£££!!
>
> Best regards
>
> Kingsley in Oz
>
>
> On 12.01.19 8:57 pm, graeme bird wrote:-
>> I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a
>> thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can
>> anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect. I
>> recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and
>> more economical with marginal difference in performance but that
>> might have been because it was cloth and draggy.
>>
>
>
>
>
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Will

We have the LAA to consider!
Pete
On 13/01/2019 13:40, William Daniell wrote:

Quote:
Why not fit a manual turbo to your 80hp.  Then youd have power when you need it.   Total cost about usd 5k. Will


On Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 05:24 Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info) wrote:

Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)>

Graeme

I totally agree with Kingsley's appraisal. AC has the standard 912 UL
with a CAP 140 variable pitch prop.  This allows me to get 5,600 rpm at
start of roll, so getting as much power as possible out of the engine. 
Acceleration and climb out are no problem. The only time I would like
more power is at max weight (1,300 lbs) on a hot, cross windy day, we
then get a closer look at the far hedge that I like.  Initial climb when
clean is around 800 to 1,000 fpm. Cruise is 120 kts at 14 to 15 litres
per hour, depending on weight.  You can wind it up to 130 but the fuel
consumption increases.

Just worth checking I seem to remember that when the weight increase mod
to 1,370 lbs was introduced that the PFA would only approve it with an
80 hp engine if using a variable pitch prop.

Pete
G-RMAC Classic mono #109


On 12/01/2019 23:49, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst
> <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>
>
> Hello Graeme,
>
> I have a Mono Classic with the 912 80HP engine with 3 tapered Warp
> Drive blades and an Airmaster CS hub.
>
> Whilst I cannot directly compare the 80 HP 912 to the 100HP 912S, I
> can say that I (along with others) am amazed how well it performs. 
> The only thing that would make me consider replacing it with the 100HP
> engine is that part of flight between lift off and 90 kts.  I am
> perfectly happy with the ground run but after lift off in the high
> drag configuration (flaps and gear down), 60 kts is about all I can
> get.  I therefore progressively start raising the gear/flaps very soon
> after lift off and put them fully away at 60 kts.  Climb rate at this
> time is minimal as it fairly slowly accelerates.  At 80 kts it starts
> to climb quite nicely but by then I am well past the end of our 700m
> strip.  (Exacerbating this situation is the fact that we almost always
> have a cross wind)  I like to climb at 90 kts IAS and at AUW of 621
> kg, I am astounded how well it climbs to altitude averaging around 500
> fpm and sometimes more to 8,000 ft etc.
>
> A mate of mine had a tri gear with the 80 HP engine and a fixed pitch
> wooden propeller.  It couldn't look at mine performance wise.  I'm
> therefore of the opinion a CS prop is a necessity with the 80 HP
> especially in the hot conditions we have to endure over here.
>
> I suppose this has told you very little Graeme but I wouldn't go to
> the expense of purchasing a 912S without first trying the 912 you were
> supplied.  If need be, swapping them over is a very simple exercise
> once you have forked out the $$$£££!!
>
> Best regards
>
> Kingsley in Oz
>
>
> On 12.01.19 8:57 pm, graeme bird wrote:-
>> I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a
>> thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can
>> anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect. I
>> recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and
>> more economical with marginal difference in performance but that
>> might have been because it was cloth and draggy.
>>
>
>
>
>
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eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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===========






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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:38 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Fun police....
Maybe ypu could fit it and tell them it was a funny shaped airbox......

On Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 10:34 Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info) wrote:

Quote:

Will

We have the LAA to consider!
Pete
On 13/01/2019 13:40, William Daniell wrote:

Quote:
Why not fit a manual turbo to your 80hp.  Then youd have power when you need it.   Total cost about usd 5k. Will


On Sun, Jan 13, 2019, 05:24 Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info) wrote:

Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)>

Graeme

I totally agree with Kingsley's appraisal. AC has the standard 912 UL
with a CAP 140 variable pitch prop.  This allows me to get 5,600 rpm at
start of roll, so getting as much power as possible out of the engine. 
Acceleration and climb out are no problem. The only time I would like
more power is at max weight (1,300 lbs) on a hot, cross windy day, we
then get a closer look at the far hedge that I like.  Initial climb when
clean is around 800 to 1,000 fpm. Cruise is 120 kts at 14 to 15 litres
per hour, depending on weight.  You can wind it up to 130 but the fuel
consumption increases.

Just worth checking I seem to remember that when the weight increase mod
to 1,370 lbs was introduced that the PFA would only approve it with an
80 hp engine if using a variable pitch prop.

Pete
G-RMAC Classic mono #109


On 12/01/2019 23:49, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst
> <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>
>
> Hello Graeme,
>
> I have a Mono Classic with the 912 80HP engine with 3 tapered Warp
> Drive blades and an Airmaster CS hub.
>
> Whilst I cannot directly compare the 80 HP 912 to the 100HP 912S, I
> can say that I (along with others) am amazed how well it performs. 
> The only thing that would make me consider replacing it with the 100HP
> engine is that part of flight between lift off and 90 kts.  I am
> perfectly happy with the ground run but after lift off in the high
> drag configuration (flaps and gear down), 60 kts is about all I can
> get.  I therefore progressively start raising the gear/flaps very soon
> after lift off and put them fully away at 60 kts.  Climb rate at this
> time is minimal as it fairly slowly accelerates.  At 80 kts it starts
> to climb quite nicely but by then I am well past the end of our 700m
> strip.  (Exacerbating this situation is the fact that we almost always
> have a cross wind)  I like to climb at 90 kts IAS and at AUW of 621
> kg, I am astounded how well it climbs to altitude averaging around 500
> fpm and sometimes more to 8,000 ft etc.
>
> A mate of mine had a tri gear with the 80 HP engine and a fixed pitch
> wooden propeller.  It couldn't look at mine performance wise.  I'm
> therefore of the opinion a CS prop is a necessity with the 80 HP
> especially in the hot conditions we have to endure over here.
>
> I suppose this has told you very little Graeme but I wouldn't go to
> the expense of purchasing a 912S without first trying the 912 you were
> supplied.  If need be, swapping them over is a very simple exercise
> once you have forked out the $$$£££!!
>
> Best regards
>
> Kingsley in Oz
>
>
> On 12.01.19 8:57 pm, graeme bird wrote:-
>> I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a
>> thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can
>> anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect. I
>> recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and
>> more economical with marginal difference in performance but that
>> might have been because it was cloth and draggy.
>>
>
>
>
>
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eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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Richard Lamprey



Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 93
Location: Kenya

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject: Re: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Hello Graeme,

For the last 20 years in Kenya I have been flying my Classic Mono with 80hp 912, and standard ground-adjusted Warp Drive with narrow blades from my local strips at 6000’ above sea-level (total time on Classic 5Y-LRY, is 650 hours). With 30 Celsius that’s a density altitude of about 8900’. My latest prop adjustment was about 4 years ago, putting I think 14 degrees at the tips (? will need to check that when I get back to machine). The rationale being for fixed pitch, rather than variable, is that there is NO Europa support from anywhere except Europe, beyond a brutal Kenya customs-wall; so why make a complicated Europa?

When I was young and stick-like (although 6’ tall), LRY would perform well with two up, with full baggage bay reserve tank, and everything up to MAUW. But a little sluggish on take-off; on hard surface about 650 m before lift off (which is good for your mono/ tailwheel skills), half retract flaps until 70 kts, and slow climb out at 250 fpm. I also fly small Cessna’s (eg 182, 206, non-turbo) , and you get used to this sluggishness at this altitude, but flying visitors from Europe sometimes find it quite scary.

Later, when I married a beautiful woman with amazing cooking, had children and became more desk-bound supporting the above, I put on 15 kg. So now for safety I fly 5Y-LRY myself only up to about 1150 lbs, maybe just getting cautious with old age. Usually OK, but takeoff occasionally a bit marginal, especially on soft grass airfields after rain.

Hope this is useful,

Best
Richard
Kenya


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graeme bird



Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Thanks all. CS prop. agh more expense, weight and complexity. I guess I can try actually by flying my current one off at 80%. To be honest though I generally accelerate to TO at about 5600-5700 rpm reducing to 5400 when airborne and 5000 ish when cruising so I could maybe get near the same by working the engine a bit harder.

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_________________
Graeme Bird
Kit 2 in build, Mono Classic 912;
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp SR3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, Smart A3
380 hours, 980t
g(@)gdbmk.co.uk
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:59 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Graeme,
I would keep the 80HP. But as others have commented, it does need a constant speed. We did this on Creighton Smiths 96EG and it transformed the aircraft. Airmaster AP332 with Warp Drive tapered (because the other blades are too aggressive for the 80 horse). Cruise and climb improved of course, but takeoff is now with authority and there is less residual thrust in the flare shortening the float distance.

Regards,
Bud Yerly

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info>
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:21:56 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax


--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info>

Graeme

I totally agree with Kingsley's appraisal. AC has the standard 912 UL
with a CAP 140 variable pitch prop. This allows me to get 5,600 rpm at
start of roll, so getting as much power as possible out of the engine.
Acceleration and climb out are no problem. The only time I would like
more power is at max weight (1,300 lbs) on a hot, cross windy day, we
then get a closer look at the far hedge that I like. Initial climb when
clean is around 800 to 1,000 fpm. Cruise is 120 kts at 14 to 15 litres
per hour, depending on weight. You can wind it up to 130 but the fuel
consumption increases.

Just worth checking I seem to remember that when the weight increase mod
to 1,370 lbs was introduced that the PFA would only approve it with an
80 hp engine if using a variable pitch prop.

Pete
G-RMAC Classic mono #109


On 12/01/2019 23:49, Kingsley Hurst wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst
> <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au>
>
> Hello Graeme,
>
> I have a Mono Classic with the 912 80HP engine with 3 tapered Warp
> Drive blades and an Airmaster CS hub.
>
> Whilst I cannot directly compare the 80 HP 912 to the 100HP 912S, I
> can say that I (along with others) am amazed how well it performs.
> The only thing that would make me consider replacing it with the 100HP
> engine is that part of flight between lift off and 90 kts. I am
> perfectly happy with the ground run but after lift off in the high
> drag configuration (flaps and gear down), 60 kts is about all I can
> get. I therefore progressively start raising the gear/flaps very soon
> after lift off and put them fully away at 60 kts. Climb rate at this
> time is minimal as it fairly slowly accelerates. At 80 kts it starts
> to climb quite nicely but by then I am well past the end of our 700m
> strip. (Exacerbating this situation is the fact that we almost always
> have a cross wind) I like to climb at 90 kts IAS and at AUW of 621
> kg, I am astounded how well it climbs to altitude averaging around 500
> fpm and sometimes more to 8,000 ft etc.
>
> A mate of mine had a tri gear with the 80 HP engine and a fixed pitch
> wooden propeller. It couldn't look at mine performance wise. I'm
> therefore of the opinion a CS prop is a necessity with the 80 HP
> especially in the hot conditions we have to endure over here.
>
> I suppose this has told you very little Graeme but I wouldn't go to
> the expense of purchasing a 912S without first trying the 912 you were
> supplied. If need be, swapping them over is a very simple exercise
> once you have forked out the $$$!!
>
> Best regards
>
> Kingsley in Oz
>
>
> On 12.01.19 8:57 pm, graeme bird wrote:-
>> I received an unused 80HP 912 with my recent part built kit with a
>> thin three blade warp drive; my own Europa is a 100HP 912ULS, can
>> anyone comment on what difference in performance I might expect. I
>> recall on my previous plane, a C42, the 80HP was less violent and
>> more economical with marginal difference in performance but that
>> might have been because it was cloth and draggy.
>>
>
>
>
>
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flyingphil2



Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:51 am    Post subject: Re: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Graeme,

If I was in your situation I'd be looking at this new prop from Duc. Looks like they've thought about the design and have done a fair bit of computer analysis on it. It claims to have a 'Constant Speed' effect for a fixed, ground adjustable prop. Sounds too good to be true maybe but worth a look:

http://www.duc-helices.com/client/document/dh_sw3_cm_02_a-swirl-3_propeller_presentation_1019.pdf


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churchy



Joined: 04 Nov 2011
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:14 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Phil

That looks like an interesting development but the spec sheet looks like a minimum diameter of 1660mm for the 80hp which is larger than the current LAA monowheel guidance of 1625mm.

Richard

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On 17 Jan 2019, at 10:51, flyingphil2 <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Graeme,

If I was in your situation I'd be looking at this new prop from Duc. Looks like they've thought about the design and have done a fair bit of computer analysis on it. It claims to have a 'Constant Speed' effect for a fixed, ground adjustable prop. Sounds too good to be true maybe but worth a look:

http://www.duc-helices.com/client/document/dh_sw3_cm_02_a-swirl-3_propeller_presentation_1019.pdf




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487046#487046











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rogersheridan(at)mac.com
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:46 am    Post subject: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

There’s another French prop under development here:
https://aircraft.e-props.fr/glorieuse.php?language=en
Quote:
On 17 Jan 2019, at 11:13, Richard Churchill-Coleman <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com (richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Churchill-Coleman <richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com (richard.churchill-coleman(at)sky.com)>PhilThat looks like an interesting development but the spec sheet looks like a minimum diameter of 1660mm for the 80hp which is larger than the current LAA monowheel guidance of 1625mm.RichardSent from my iPhone
Quote:
On 17 Jan 2019, at 10:51, flyingphil2 <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com (philipjtiller(at)gmail.com)> wrote:--> Europa-List message posted by: "flyingphil2" <philipjtiller(at)gmail.com (philipjtiller(at)gmail.com)>Graeme,If I was in your situation I'd be looking at this new prop from Duc. Looks like they've thought about the design and have done a fair bit of computer analysis on it. It claims to have a 'Constant Speed' effect for a fixed, ground adjustable prop. Sounds too good to be true maybe but worth a look:http://www.duc-helices.com/client/document/dh_sw3_cm_02_a-swirl-3_propeller_presentation_1019.pdfRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=487046#487046
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://wiki.matronics.com



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flyingphil2



Joined: 04 Dec 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Well spotted Richard. Definitely worth talking to Duc about the possibility though.

I've been running a Duc Windspoon on another aircraft and am very happy with it and don't know of any problems with them so they seem like a decent supplier.


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JohnFrance



Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 53
Location: Grenoble France

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Performance of 80HP compared to 100HP Rotax Reply with quote

Just to clarify Roger’s post about the Eprop Glorieuse propeller.
It is a VP propeller but it is not yet on the market. It is being tested and once the company is confident of achieving a TBO of 2000 hours, yes that’s right 2000 it will be brought to market for the Rotax ULS. A version for the UL will be some time behind that.
However, their Durandel 80 ground adjustable propeller gives excellent performance on a Rotax UL. It has a ESR, extended speed range as they call it.
There are several fitted to Europa aircraft in France including my own and I am happy with its performance.
Regards

John


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