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Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

 
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motoadve



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 93
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 4:05 pm    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

This stall was no different than all the ones I have practiced before, clean power off, at recovery when I added power (very smoothly as I always do) engine sputtered and stumbled, then continued fine.

During descend to pattern when I reduced power, engine was running a bit rougher than usual , not terrible but I noticed it, 5 MP and 2000 RPMs.
Added some power at pattern and it smoothed out also at low power settings for the landing was smooth.

Any theories?


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Harv



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:11 am    Post subject: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

I had similar issues with my CJ, happened after about 30mins flight time and adding power smoothed it out. Problem became worse during subsequent flights and it turned out to be failing mag coils. I couldn’t repeat the issue on the ground even after prolonged warmup and ground running.

How long into your flight before this occurred?
I removed the old mag coils, had them both rewound and it now runs stronger than ever.

Just my thoughts.

Maybe do a few more over airfield flights for plus 30 mins and see if it happens again.


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richard.goode(at)russiana
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

That is a classic coil problem which will only manifest itself when the engine is hot and the heat has totally penetrated the magneto and, more specifically the coil. It is very difficult to get the magneto sufficiently hot to have this partial failure on the ground. And the only solution is to change the coil!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.

--


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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

If I may ask, who rewound the coils?
Thx
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On May 14, 2019, at 11:11 AM, Harv <martin.harvey(at)kbr.com> wrote:



I had similar issues with my CJ, happened after about 30mins flight time and adding power smoothed it out. Problem became worse during subsequent flights and it turned out to be failing mag coils. I couldn’t repeat the issue on the ground even after prolonged warmup and ground running.

How long into your flight before this occurred?


I removed the old mag coils, had them both rewound and it now runs stronger than ever.

Just my thoughts.

Maybe do a few more over airfield flights for plus 30 mins and see if it happens again.




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Harv



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

In the UK we have some specialist firms who have been rewinding coils for something like 75years (family run business) and they handled it.

Contact me off list if you need any more details.


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richard.goode(at)russiana
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 12:22 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

Yes, after over 30 years' experience with these engines, and particularly
the magnetos/coils, we investigated all the significant UK companies engaged
in magneto overhauls, and chose the one we felt was the best. They designed
a new coil for us three years ago, and importantly with an external
capacitor/condenser. The reason for this is that the primary cause of
failure is the capacitor overheating and degenerating with age, and of
course this is made worse since it is normally sitting inside a coil of hot
wire!

So we now make new coils with a high-technology Panasonic capacitor bonded
to the outside of the coil so it remains cooler, but still fits comfortably
inside the magneto. We have sold many to customers all over the world with
100% satisfaction!

Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.

--


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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 3:21 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

Thanks Richard. Now that I know where to go, you can be sure when folks ask me, I'll be sending them your way.
Dennis


On Wednesday, May 15, 2019, 4:25:30 AM EDT, Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> wrote:




--> Yak-List message posted by: "Richard Goode" <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)>

Yes, after over 30 years' experience with these engines, and particularly

the magnetos/coils, we investigated all the significant UK companies engaged

in magneto overhauls, and chose the one we felt was the best. They designed

a new coil for us three years ago, and importantly with an external

capacitor/condenser. The reason for this is that the primary cause of

failure is the capacitor overheating and degenerating with age, and of

course this is made worse since it is normally sitting inside a coil of hot

wire!

So we now make new coils with a high-technology Panasonic capacitor bonded

to the outside of the coil so it remains cooler, but still fits comfortably

inside the magneto. We have sold many to customers all over the world with

100% satisfaction!

Richard

RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS

Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK

Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129

e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)

www.russianaeros.com

WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES

In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.

--


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motoadve



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 93
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

Was not the mags.
Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was sucking air.
Fixed that.

Now engine runs smoother than ever.


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_________________
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Cessna 182 P
CJ -6
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:27 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

That certainly will do it!
Dennis


On Monday, June 10, 2019, 9:21:38 AM EDT, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr> wrote:




--> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>

Was not the mags.

Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was sucking air.

Fixed that.

Now engine runs smoother than ever.

--------

www.Backcountry182.com

Cessna 182 P

CJ -6

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489574#489574

he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

h=====================

http://forums.matronics.com

= --> http://www.matronics.==


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richard.goode(at)russiana
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:52 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

You don't mention the kind of manifold oil drain system that was used and what actually had failed. But, in our experience, it is a mistake to use the standard Russian manifold drain plug (I have no experience of this on the Nanchang engine); drill it and tap it for an AN fitting. This is because it is relatively thin aluminium and simply not designed to be drilled and tapped. We make a much thicker plug to replace the Russian one that has much greater strength and is designed to be tapped.

Richard


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 10 June 2019 14:26
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

That certainly will do it!

Dennis


On Monday, June 10, 2019, 9:21:38 AM EDT, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:





--> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>



Was not the mags.

Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was sucking air.

Fixed that.



Now engine runs smoother than ever.



--------

www.Backcountry182.com

Cessna 182 P

CJ -6









Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489574#489574









he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

h=====================

http://forums.matronics.com

= --> [url=http://wiki.matronics.com][/url]

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:36 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

Richard, What do you have for the small intake tube drains that appear on some engines?
Dennis

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 10, 2019, at 9:52 AM, Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
Quote:
<![endif]--> <![endif]-->
You don't mention the kind of manifold oil drain system that was used and what actually had failed. But, in our experience, it is a mistake to use the standard Russian manifold drain plug (I have no experience of this on the Nanchang engine); drill it and tap it for an AN fitting. This is because it is relatively thin aluminium and simply not designed to be drilled and tapped. We make a much thicker plug to replace the Russian one that has much greater strength and is designed to be tapped.

Richard


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 10 June 2019 14:26
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

That certainly will do it!

Dennis


On Monday, June 10, 2019, 9:21:38 AM EDT, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:





--> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>



Was not the mags.

Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was sucking air.

Fixed that.



Now engine runs smoother than ever.



--------

www.Backcountry182.com

Cessna 182 P

CJ -6









Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489574#489574









he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

h=====================

http://forums.matronics.com

= --> [url=http://wiki.matronics.com][/url]

http://www.matronics.==


















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richard.goode(at)russiana
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:25 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

We change the complete intake tube – those ones with a very small hole are simply too small to fit an appropriate AN fitting.

I attach photographs of the much thicker plugs that we manufacture.


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Savarese
Sent: 10 June 2019 16:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

Richard,
What do you have for the small intake tube drains that appear on some engines?

Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2019, at 9:52 AM, Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
Quote:

You don't mention the kind of manifold oil drain system that was used and what actually had failed. But, in our experience, it is a mistake to use the standard Russian manifold drain plug (I have no experience of this on the Nanchang engine); drill it and tap it for an AN fitting. This is because it is relatively thin aluminium and simply not designed to be drilled and tapped. We make a much thicker plug to replace the Russian one that has much greater strength and is designed to be tapped.

Richard


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 10 June 2019 14:26
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

That certainly will do it!

Dennis


On Monday, June 10, 2019, 9:21:38 AM EDT, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:





--> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>



Was not the mags.

Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was sucking air.

Fixed that.



Now engine runs smoother than ever.



--------

www.Backcountry182.com

Cessna 182 P

CJ -6









Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489574#489574









he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

h=====================

http://forums.matronics.com

= -->

http://www.matronics.==

















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richard.goode(at)russiana
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:47 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

And you might ask why there are no locking "castelations" on our thicker nuts – the answer is simply that they are always going to be used with an oil drain tube and the tube is what prevents it unscrewing itself!

Richard


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Goode
Sent: 10 June 2019 17:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

We change the complete intake tube – those ones with a very small hole are simply too small to fit an appropriate AN fitting.

I attach photographs of the much thicker plugs that we manufacture.


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Anthony Savarese
Sent: 10 June 2019 16:25
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

Richard,
What do you have for the small intake tube drains that appear on some engines?

Dennis
Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2019, at 9:52 AM, Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)> wrote:
Quote:

You don't mention the kind of manifold oil drain system that was used and what actually had failed. But, in our experience, it is a mistake to use the standard Russian manifold drain plug (I have no experience of this on the Nanchang engine); drill it and tap it for an AN fitting. This is because it is relatively thin aluminium and simply not designed to be drilled and tapped. We make a much thicker plug to replace the Russian one that has much greater strength and is designed to be tapped.

Richard


RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com (richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com)
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.


From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese
Sent: 10 June 2019 14:26
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

That certainly will do it!

Dennis


On Monday, June 10, 2019, 9:21:38 AM EDT, motoadve <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)> wrote:





--> Yak-List message posted by: "motoadve" <motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr (motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr)>



Was not the mags.

Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was sucking air.

Fixed that.



Now engine runs smoother than ever.



--------

www.Backcountry182.com

Cessna 182 P

CJ -6









Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489574#489574









he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

h=====================

http://forums.matronics.com

= -->

http://www.matronics.==

















- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:12 am    Post subject: Did a stall, and engine almost quit. Reply with quote

Thanks Richard.
Dennis

A. Dennis Savarese
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1

On 6/10/2019 12:24 PM, Richard Goode wrote:
Quote:

We change the complete intake tube ??? those ones with a very small hole
are simply too small to fit an appropriate AN fitting.

I attach photographs of the much thicker plugs that we manufacture.

*RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS***

*Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK*

Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120???? Fax:?? +44 (0)1544 340129

e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
<mailto:richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>

www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>

*W**ORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES***

*In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.*

*From:*owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Anthony
Savarese
*Sent:* 10 June 2019 16:25
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com
*Subject:* Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

Richard,

What do you have for the small intake tube drains that appear on some
engines?

Dennis

Sent from my iPhone
On Jun 10, 2019, at 9:52 AM, Richard Goode
<richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
<mailto:richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>> wrote:

You don't mention the kind of manifold oil drain system that was
used and what actually had failed. But, in our experience, it is a
mistake to use the standard Russian manifold drain plug (I have no
experience of this on the Nanchang engine); drill it and tap it
for an AN fitting. This is because it is relatively thin aluminium
and simply not designed to be drilled and tapped. We make a much
thicker plug to replace the Russian one that has much greater
strength and is designed to be tapped.

Richard

*RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS*

*Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK*

Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120???? Fax:?? +44 (0)1544 340129

e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
<mailto:richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com>

www.russianaeros.com <http://www.russianaeros.com>

*W**ORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES*

*In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.*

*From:*owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com
<mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *A.
Dennis Savarese
*Sent:* 10 June 2019 14:26
*To:* yak-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:yak-list(at)matronics.com>
*Subject:* Re: Re: Did a stall, and engine almost quit.

That certainly will do it!

Dennis

On Monday, June 10, 2019, 9:21:38 AM EDT, motoadve
<motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr <mailto:motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr>> wrote:


<mailto:motoadve(at)racsa.co.cr>>

Was not the mags.

Intake tube on cyl 5 had a big hole, the drain tube broke and was
sucking air.

Fixed that.

Now engine runs smoother than ever.

--------

www.Backcountry182.com <http://www.Backcountry182.com>

Cessna 182 P

CJ -6

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=489574#489574

he many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

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