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Magneto upgrade?

 
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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1660
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject: Magneto upgrade? Reply with quote

After this thread got going I started thinking seriously about SureFly
and PMag 6 cylinder. After research, I found that SureFly has one
possible advantage, of advancing timing as far as 38 degrees under low
power vs PMag only goes to 34 degrees.
The P-mag has two more significant advantages....It has a built-in
alternator that supplies power to run the electronic all except during
start, so you have the same advantages of old magneto with much higher
spark voltage. You can even hand prop using a 9 volt battery to power
the electronics until engine is running. SureFly must have external
power to operate.
The other BIG advantage is that it uses automotive plugs available
anywhere for about 1/6th the price of massive aircraft plugs. Plug gets
fouled or quits...don't waste time cleaning, just replace.
Both offer similar fuel economy and power boost possibilities. Both give
automotive variety starts, hot or cold. Price is very similar, unless
you have to buy Slick harness for SureFly (Bendix won't work) which is
several hundred bucks. Either way, payback is likely to be over TBO of
the engine to at best payback at half TBO. They look about even on
effort to install. SureFly has STC approval for certified aircraft,
P-Mag is experimental only.
I probably will wait awhile longer to see this market mature.

On 11/25/2020 4:02 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
Quote:
And I believe it requires a magneto with an impulse coupling on the
other side.  Correct?

I’m pretty sure that is right.

Phil

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 
> Sheesh, I don't know how you pass the A&P practical if you can't do
> basic trouble shooting on a mag.
> If it won't fire with P lead disc, the problem is inside the mag, It
> could be worn out points, bad condensor, damaged rotor.
> A bad rotor will be pretty obvious from where it the contact is made
> at each plug wire. Yes, it requires taking off the main rotor cap.
> Slick mags have easy to get tools to verify e-gap setting.
> Sent from myTRS-80 Model 100
> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 2:33 PM Lenny Iszak <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com
> <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>> wrote:
>
>
> <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>>
>
> Marcus,
>
> The easiest swap is the Surefly. Keep the same plugs, harness and
> magneto cap, and just swap in the Surefly for the mag, then
> install a power wire and that’s it. If it ever breaks while on a
> trip you can always swap in a standard mag.
>
> There’s only one minor issue with it, most current EFIS systems
> can't read the RPM from the P-lead of the SureFly. Using a hall
> effect sensor in the other mag takes care of that though.
>
> Lenny
>
> > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
> <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
> >
> >
> <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>>
> >
> > During my run up to fly to meet the family for thanksgiving the
> left magneto was completely dead. Back to the chicks to
> troubleshoot where I removed the P leads in case they had grounded
> somehow with no effect.  I spoke with 3 mechanics and all had no
> ideas other than replace the mag.
> >   I’ve read some sporadic news about P Mags and maybe other
> hybrid magnetos on the market. I don’t want to go pure electronic
> ignition due to other battery source issues, but does anyone have
> any recommendations that would be a step up from a pure magneto?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Marcus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ===========
> -List" rel="noreferrer"
> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
> ===========
> FORUMS -
> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
> ===========
> WIKI -
> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
> ===========
> b Site -
>           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> ===========
>


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Kelly McMullen
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cderk



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject: Magneto upgrade? Reply with quote

On the “automotive variety starts”, I’m not sure I’m a believer. The easy hot or cold starting, i believe, is more a function of the fuel injection. If you have normal fuel injection and your spider is on top of your engine, its going to take a little finessing regardless of the type of ignition. I have dual Lightspeed ignitions, and I use a purge valve to make starts easier.

I do agree with the plugs/wires. I made my own wires and i will do exactly what you suggested - throw out the plugs and buy new ones versus cleaning them.

Charlie

Quote:
On Dec 26, 2020, at 4:21 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:



After this thread got going I started thinking seriously about SureFly and PMag 6 cylinder. After research, I found that SureFly has one possible advantage, of advancing timing as far as 38 degrees under low power vs PMag only goes to 34 degrees.
The P-mag has two more significant advantages....It has a built-in alternator that supplies power to run the electronic all except during start, so you have the same advantages of old magneto with much higher spark voltage. You can even hand prop using a 9 volt battery to power the electronics until engine is running. SureFly must have external power to operate.
The other BIG advantage is that it uses automotive plugs available anywhere for about 1/6th the price of massive aircraft plugs. Plug gets fouled or quits...don't waste time cleaning, just replace.
Both offer similar fuel economy and power boost possibilities. Both give automotive variety starts, hot or cold. Price is very similar, unless you have to buy Slick harness for SureFly (Bendix won't work) which is several hundred bucks. Either way, payback is likely to be over TBO of the engine to at best payback at half TBO. They look about even on effort to install. SureFly has STC approval for certified aircraft, P-Mag is experimental only.
I probably will wait awhile longer to see this market mature.

> On 11/25/2020 4:02 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
> And I believe it requires a magneto with an impulse coupling on the other side. Correct?
> I’m pretty sure that is right.
> Phil
> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Sheesh, I don't know how you pass the A&P practical if you can't do basic trouble shooting on a mag.
>> If it won't fire with P lead disc, the problem is inside the mag, It could be worn out points, bad condensor, damaged rotor.
>> A bad rotor will be pretty obvious from where it the contact is made at each plug wire. Yes, it requires taking off the main rotor cap.
>> Slick mags have easy to get tools to verify e-gap setting.
>> Sent from myTRS-80 Model 100
>>
>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 2:33 PM Lenny Iszak <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>>
>>
>> Marcus,
>>
>> The easiest swap is the Surefly. Keep the same plugs, harness and
>> magneto cap, and just swap in the Surefly for the mag, then
>> install a power wire and that’s it. If it ever breaks while on a
>> trip you can always swap in a standard mag.
>>
>> There’s only one minor issue with it, most current EFIS systems
>> can't read the RPM from the P-lead of the SureFly. Using a hall
>> effect sensor in the other mag takes care of that though.
>>
>> Lenny
>>
>> > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
>> <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>>
>> >
>> > During my run up to fly to meet the family for thanksgiving the
>> left magneto was completely dead. Back to the chicks to
>> troubleshoot where I removed the P leads in case they had grounded
>> somehow with no effect. I spoke with 3 mechanics and all had no
>> ideas other than replace the mag.
>> > I’ve read some sporadic news about P Mags and maybe other
>> hybrid magnetos on the market. I don’t want to go pure electronic
>> ignition due to other battery source issues, but does anyone have
>> any recommendations that would be a step up from a pure magneto?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Marcus
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ===========
>> -List" rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>> ===========
>> FORUMS -
>> eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> ===========
>> WIKI -
>> errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>> ===========
>> b Site -
>> -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ===========
>>
>>
>>





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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2841

PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2020 1:47 pm    Post subject: Magneto upgrade? Reply with quote

Hi Kelly,
A couple of thoughts on that.

1) I'm actually not a huge fan of auto plugs, on the BOTTOM. That's one
the reasons I purposely went surefly, and one of the reasons I didn't do
lightspeed on the bottom. I've had a plug boot clip get loose over time
and although it felt tight when installed, it repeatedly released, off a
TOP plug, in flight. So the more I pondered it, I'm much more happy to
use iridium aviation plugs on the bottom, with a standard harness that
is mechanically bolted on to the plug. The bottom plugs could have an
even easier time of gravity/vibration induced plug wire disconnects. So
I considered that a +1 for the Surefly for sure.

The other thing that I call a -1 for the P-Mag is that I really don't
think there are many 6 cylinder units out in the field yet, and they had
them promised to ship "next month" for far too many years. My gut
feeling is that they ran into issues, and I would want to see a lot more
track record on them before personally considering them. I know that
some of the early units from the company suffered gear wear issues
as well, and if you read enough on VAF you'll find a few comments here
and there that indicate potential issues. Yes, you'll also find a huge
amount of support, but, I'm not sure you can just read all the positives
and still trust it. There is enough moderation going on there that you
never know what is the whole story. Case in point...there are multiple
threads that completely disappear regarding EarthX battery issues.
Anything that becomes too big of a publicity problem for an advertising
manufacturer just goes away. So you really have to watch for threads
over a long period of time to see what kinds of issues people run into,
and I've seen enough that I myself would want to see far more time,
especially if considering 6-cylinder P-Mags.

I also consider it a +1 that the Surefly has been adopted by Lycoming
as their electronic ignition too. They claim it has their own custom
proprietary timing curve, but from a hardware perspective, it's the same
unit. So if Lycoming has seen enough to be comfortable, I'm more
inclined to be interested as well.

I think you're probably off on the payback, as well. If you look at
mags from a perspective of slick mag required/recommended maintenance,
you're going to spend enough in the first 1,000 hours of operation to
come out definitely ahead by going Surefly. The impulse couplers
are also a disaster waiting to happen, with their rivet wear, so you
avoid that whole concern. Add in the fact that you can also leave
surefly enabled for starting and you'll have a nicer starting airplane.
With my Lightspeed + Surefly, I have 2 that can fire during start,
both with more engergy than a magneto. I also like that the Lightspeed
I think is the best running and one of the longest in business of all
the EI systems, and that it has a simple no-moving-part operationg.
It makes for an ideal top side ignition. And I wouldn't want to put
all my eggs in the same basket by having dual front mount sensors
that could get ripped off by an alternator belt failure, so I'm glad to
have the second system be a rear accessory case mounted system...again,
with bolt on ignition harness wires.

I'm just saying that when thinking through it, you have quite a few
small details to consider. The PMag does get the +1 with the self
generating power, but really that's one of the few places I can give it
positive over the competition. It would be nice to see that feature
on some competing products. That said, now that I'm dual-alternator
and dual-bus feed to the surefly, I really don't have much concern
anymore about the power side of things.

My personal advice for people is, if you're running 2 mags presently,
you should probably at least have a plan to replace one by the time
you have 1,000 hours on one of them. It's pretty inevitable that
you're going to want the long term benefits, so gear up and embrace
one of the products so you don't get stuck in the high maintenance
and lower reliability that magnetos (certainly slick magnetos) have.
I know you like Bendix, which may change the decision slightly too.
There's nothing worse than having an unexpected Mag issue force you
to keep buying new magnetos because you weren't ready to make the jump.

Also, the upgrade from a surefly standpoint, is about as simple as it
gets, and can be done with about as little down time as a person
could expect.

Tim
On 12/26/20 2:59 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
Quote:


    After this thread got going I started thinking seriously about
SureFly and PMag 6 cylinder. After research, I found that SureFly has
one possible advantage, of advancing timing as far as 38 degrees under
low power vs PMag only goes to 34 degrees.
The P-mag has two more significant advantages....It has a built-in
alternator that supplies power to run the electronic all except during
start, so you have the same advantages of old magneto with much higher
spark voltage. You can even hand prop using a 9 volt battery to power
the electronics until engine is running. SureFly must have external
power to operate.
The other BIG advantage is that it uses automotive plugs available
anywhere for about 1/6th the price of massive aircraft plugs. Plug gets
fouled or quits...don't waste time cleaning, just replace.
Both offer similar fuel economy and power boost possibilities. Both give
automotive variety starts, hot or cold. Price is very similar, unless
you have to buy Slick harness for SureFly (Bendix won't work) which is
several hundred bucks. Either way, payback is likely to be over TBO of
the engine to at best payback at half TBO. They look about even on
effort to install. SureFly has STC approval for certified aircraft,
P-Mag is experimental only.
I probably will wait awhile longer to see this market mature.

On 11/25/2020 4:02 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
> And I believe it requires a magneto with an impulse coupling on the
> other side.  Correct?
>
> I’m pretty sure that is right.
>
> Phil
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Sheesh, I don't know how you pass the A&P practical if you can't do
>> basic trouble shooting on a mag.
>> If it won't fire with P lead disc, the problem is inside the mag, It
>> could be worn out points, bad condensor, damaged rotor.
>> A bad rotor will be pretty obvious from where it the contact is made
>> at each plug wire. Yes, it requires taking off the main rotor cap.
>> Slick mags have easy to get tools to verify e-gap setting.
>> Sent from myTRS-80 Model 100
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 2:33 PM Lenny Iszak <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com
>> <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>> wrote:
>>
>>    
>>     <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>>
>>
>>     Marcus,
>>
>>     The easiest swap is the Surefly. Keep the same plugs, harness and
>>     magneto cap, and just swap in the Surefly for the mag, then
>>     install a power wire and that’s it. If it ever breaks while on a
>>     trip you can always swap in a standard mag.
>>
>>     There’s only one minor issue with it, most current EFIS systems
>>     can't read the RPM from the P-lead of the SureFly. Using a hall
>>     effect sensor in the other mag takes care of that though.
>>
>>     Lenny
>>
>>     > On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
>>     <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>     >
>>     >
>>     <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>>
>>     >
>>     > During my run up to fly to meet the family for thanksgiving the
>>     left magneto was completely dead. Back to the chicks to
>>     troubleshoot where I removed the P leads in case they had grounded
>>     somehow with no effect.  I spoke with 3 mechanics and all had no
>>     ideas other than replace the mag.
>>     >   I’ve read some sporadic news about P Mags and maybe other
>>     hybrid magnetos on the market. I don’t want to go pure electronic
>>     ignition due to other battery source issues, but does anyone have
>>     any recommendations that would be a step up from a pure magneto?
>>     >
>>     > Thanks,
>>     > Marcus
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >
>>
>>
>>     ===========
>>     -List" rel="noreferrer"
>>     target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
>>     ===========
>>     FORUMS -
>>     eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>>     ===========
>>     WIKI -
>>     errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
>>     ===========
>>     b Site -
>>               -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>>     rel="noreferrer"
>> target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>>     ===========
>>
>>
>>





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carl.froehlich(at)verizon
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 11:05 am    Post subject: Magneto upgrade? Reply with quote

Some thoughts on what has been discussed:
- pMag timing. Four cylinder pMags are selectable between 9 degrees of max timing advance (jumper in) and 14 degrees max timing advance (jumper out). The six cylinder pMag is a new design targeting the larger certified world. For the six cylinder pMag you set both the base timing (typically 25 degrees for a stock IO-540) and the max timing (high RPM/low MP). For the max you decide what you want, but as been discussed the max advance is 9 degrees. I suggest this reflects the certified market target.
- I offer that all my reading on timing advance indicates that a max of 9 degrees advance is exactly what should be set. My experimentation on four cylinder pMags verifies this setting. I got no increase in cruise efficiency going from 9 degrees to 14 degrees of advance (parallel valve IO-360, base timing set at 25 degrees), but CHTs went up (as predicted). On an IO-390 engine (base timing set at 20 degrees) the engine really was not happy at 14 degrees of advance. One test flight and it want back to 9 degrees of advance.
- You will note that Lycoming now offers the four cylinder pMag on their line of experimental engines from Van’s. I would not be surprised for Lycoming to start offering the six cylinder pMag for their line of experimental IO-540 engines.
- My old RV-10 has been flying for most of the year with the final production version of the six cylinder pMag, (it did fly for several months before that with a pre-production version that Brad at pMag called back to upgrade to the production version). The production version of the pMag has been flawless - the plane now with 100+ hours on the new ignition and just flew from Florida to California for Christmas. Brad’s after the sale support has been superb. A second pMag will be installed when it comes time to replace the existing mag. Brad now has a large base of flying six cylinder pMags. I suggest a call to him for details.
- The RV-10 demonstrated a significant gain in fuel efficient in high, LOP cruise. For all you cross country guys this translates to perhaps not needing that extra fuel stop. As with most electronic ignitions, engine start was a blade or so.
- I would assume the delay in getting the six cylinder pMag out the door was the negotiation to achieve an FAA certification to install this ignitions on certified engines. This may be reflected in the requirement do a redesign to have the “FIXED/VARIABLE” timing control.
- If only running one pMag I suggest running it on the bottom plugs (using auto plugs) is the right way to go. The pMag spark will keep them cleaner. After a 15 years of running pMags I have some confidence in this recommendation. I also suggest that standard NGK BR8ES plugs (for parallel valve cylinders) provide better value than the expensive Iridium plugs. I never clean BR8ES plugs. I just replace then every year or two - way too cheap to clean.
- Considering how much I hated standard aviation plugs when the RV-10 just had mags I would never consider keeping them with any electronic ignition install. But, this might be the price to pay for some electronic ignitions. This might reflect their painful “how to get an FAA certification” process.
- I helped install a ship power dependent ignition on a Lancair. The cobbled together timing sensor, control board, ignition coils and associated wiring was not what I expected for today’s state of the market.
- For those running dual ship power dependent ignitions, I strongly recommend careful thought on how your keep power to them, and how long that power will last when the inevitable failure occurs. The plethora of backup battery schemes out there to address this rarely meet this hard requirement. If you do not have experience in power distribution fault analysis, get some help before you go down this road.
- On the spark plug wire falling off the plug comment - I too had this happen during the brief time I had LightSpeed II+ ignitions on the first RV (I assume the less than great Lightspeed provided plug wires were the root issue for Tim and me). I replace the plug wires and fixed that issue, but after 300 hours of multiple problems they were pulled and replace with dual pMags. The dual pMags have been flawless on that plane for 1000+ hours, as they have been on the new RV-8, now 110 hours since first flight last April.

Happy flying,
Carl

Quote:
On Dec 26, 2020, at 3:57 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com> wrote:



Hi Kelly,
A couple of thoughts on that.

1) I'm actually not a huge fan of auto plugs, on the BOTTOM. That's one the reasons I purposely went surefly, and one of the reasons I didn't do
lightspeed on the bottom. I've had a plug boot clip get loose over time
and although it felt tight when installed, it repeatedly released, off a
TOP plug, in flight. So the more I pondered it, I'm much more happy to
use iridium aviation plugs on the bottom, with a standard harness that is mechanically bolted on to the plug. The bottom plugs could have an
even easier time of gravity/vibration induced plug wire disconnects. So
I considered that a +1 for the Surefly for sure.

The other thing that I call a -1 for the P-Mag is that I really don't
think there are many 6 cylinder units out in the field yet, and they had
them promised to ship "next month" for far too many years. My gut
feeling is that they ran into issues, and I would want to see a lot more
track record on them before personally considering them. I know that
some of the early units from the company suffered gear wear issues
as well, and if you read enough on VAF you'll find a few comments here
and there that indicate potential issues. Yes, you'll also find a huge
amount of support, but, I'm not sure you can just read all the positives
and still trust it. There is enough moderation going on there that you
never know what is the whole story. Case in point...there are multiple
threads that completely disappear regarding EarthX battery issues.
Anything that becomes too big of a publicity problem for an advertising
manufacturer just goes away. So you really have to watch for threads
over a long period of time to see what kinds of issues people run into,
and I've seen enough that I myself would want to see far more time,
especially if considering 6-cylinder P-Mags.

I also consider it a +1 that the Surefly has been adopted by Lycoming
as their electronic ignition too. They claim it has their own custom
proprietary timing curve, but from a hardware perspective, it's the same
unit. So if Lycoming has seen enough to be comfortable, I'm more
inclined to be interested as well.

I think you're probably off on the payback, as well. If you look at
mags from a perspective of slick mag required/recommended maintenance,
you're going to spend enough in the first 1,000 hours of operation to
come out definitely ahead by going Surefly. The impulse couplers
are also a disaster waiting to happen, with their rivet wear, so you
avoid that whole concern. Add in the fact that you can also leave
surefly enabled for starting and you'll have a nicer starting airplane.
With my Lightspeed + Surefly, I have 2 that can fire during start,
both with more engergy than a magneto. I also like that the Lightspeed
I think is the best running and one of the longest in business of all
the EI systems, and that it has a simple no-moving-part operationg.
It makes for an ideal top side ignition. And I wouldn't want to put
all my eggs in the same basket by having dual front mount sensors
that could get ripped off by an alternator belt failure, so I'm glad to
have the second system be a rear accessory case mounted system...again,
with bolt on ignition harness wires.

I'm just saying that when thinking through it, you have quite a few
small details to consider. The PMag does get the +1 with the self
generating power, but really that's one of the few places I can give it
positive over the competition. It would be nice to see that feature
on some competing products. That said, now that I'm dual-alternator
and dual-bus feed to the surefly, I really don't have much concern
anymore about the power side of things.

My personal advice for people is, if you're running 2 mags presently,
you should probably at least have a plan to replace one by the time
you have 1,000 hours on one of them. It's pretty inevitable that
you're going to want the long term benefits, so gear up and embrace
one of the products so you don't get stuck in the high maintenance
and lower reliability that magnetos (certainly slick magnetos) have.
I know you like Bendix, which may change the decision slightly too.
There's nothing worse than having an unexpected Mag issue force you
to keep buying new magnetos because you weren't ready to make the jump.

Also, the upgrade from a surefly standpoint, is about as simple as it
gets, and can be done with about as little down time as a person
could expect.

Tim


> On 12/26/20 2:59 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
>
> After this thread got going I started thinking seriously about SureFly and PMag 6 cylinder. After research, I found that SureFly has one possible advantage, of advancing timing as far as 38 degrees under low power vs PMag only goes to 34 degrees.
> The P-mag has two more significant advantages....It has a built-in alternator that supplies power to run the electronic all except during start, so you have the same advantages of old magneto with much higher spark voltage. You can even hand prop using a 9 volt battery to power the electronics until engine is running. SureFly must have external power to operate.
> The other BIG advantage is that it uses automotive plugs available anywhere for about 1/6th the price of massive aircraft plugs. Plug gets fouled or quits...don't waste time cleaning, just replace.
> Both offer similar fuel economy and power boost possibilities. Both give automotive variety starts, hot or cold. Price is very similar, unless you have to buy Slick harness for SureFly (Bendix won't work) which is several hundred bucks. Either way, payback is likely to be over TBO of the engine to at best payback at half TBO. They look about even on effort to install. SureFly has STC approval for certified aircraft, P-Mag is experimental only.
> I probably will wait awhile longer to see this market mature.
>> On 11/25/2020 4:02 PM, Phil Perry wrote:
>> And I believe it requires a magneto with an impulse coupling on the other side. Correct?
>> I’m pretty sure that is right.
>> Phil
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 3:49 PM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sheesh, I don't know how you pass the A&P practical if you can't do basic trouble shooting on a mag.
>>> If it won't fire with P lead disc, the problem is inside the mag, It could be worn out points, bad condensor, damaged rotor.
>>> A bad rotor will be pretty obvious from where it the contact is made at each plug wire. Yes, it requires taking off the main rotor cap.
>>> Slick mags have easy to get tools to verify e-gap setting.
>>> Sent from myTRS-80 Model 100
>>> On Wed, Nov 25, 2020 at 2:33 PM Lenny Iszak <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> <lenard(at)rapiddecision.com <mailto:lenard(at)rapiddecision.com>>
>>> Marcus,
>>> The easiest swap is the Surefly. Keep the same plugs, harness and
>>> magneto cap, and just swap in the Surefly for the mag, then
>>> install a power wire and that’s it. If it ever breaks while on a
>>> trip you can always swap in a standard mag.
>>> There’s only one minor issue with it, most current EFIS systems
>>> can't read the RPM from the P-lead of the SureFly. Using a hall
>>> effect sensor in the other mag takes care of that though.
>>> Lenny
>>>> On Nov 25, 2020, at 12:13 PM, Marcus Cooper <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com
>>> <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>> <cooprv7(at)yahoo.com <mailto:cooprv7(at)yahoo.com>>
>>>> During my run up to fly to meet the family for thanksgiving the
>>> left magneto was completely dead. Back to the chicks to
>>> troubleshoot where I removed the P leads in case they had grounded
>>> somehow with no effect. I spoke with 3 mechanics and all had no
>>> ideas other than replace the mag.
>>>> I’ve read some sporadic news about P Mags and maybe other
>>> hybrid magnetos on the market. I don’t want to go pure electronic
>>> ignition due to other battery source issues, but does anyone have
>>> any recommendations that would be a step up from a pure magneto?
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Marcus
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