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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2021 10:06 am    Post subject: Interesting Reply with quote

A really BIG question in the evolution of lithium battery
technology and markets has focused on stresses that
star-gazer's proposals will put on supplies of lithium.

Here's a tid-bit that popped up this morning on a
recycling effort for lithium batteries.

https://tinyurl.com/y9tbzruo





Bob . . .

Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"


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sbw(at)sbw.org
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:00 am    Post subject: Interesting Reply with quote

That IS interesting.

"The closed loop lithium-ion battery resource recovery system yields ...
sustainable production of battery-grade lithium, cobalt and nickel ..."

"Sustainable," eh? OK, then, what's the environmental footprint of the
recycling process? How does that compare to the original mining of
these materials?

Also, "The process recovers 95% of all lithium-ion battery materials
.." So recycling extends the life cycle of these materials 20X (minus
the recycling footprint). Significant, but not, by definition,
"sustainable."

I'm often left scratching my head over the framing of news about energy
production and storage. Yes, charging an electric car with
centrally-generated electricity produces less carbon and particulates
than a car that burns its own gas. (Don't forget the life cycle costs
of solar panels, wind turbines, hydroelectric dams, and transmission.
Even microgrids!) But, like adding lanes to a freeway, will electric
cars increase miles driven?

Even if not, is it "sustainable," or does it only push the environmental
collapse further in the future?

What's my point? I don't actually know. Mostly, I'd like to see news
coverage frame this more honestly. Instead of claiming this makes
batteries "sustainable," we might say this "reduces the environmental
cost by X%." Even that doesn't tell the whole story, but at least it's
closer to the truth.


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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject: Interesting Reply with quote

Hi Steve;
In other words you would like to see scientifically accurate articles written by scientifically ignorant writers.
These are the same folks who would have us afraid of the element "Carbon," as in our "Carbon Footprint."
Cheers! Stu.

---


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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 97
Location: MS

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:56 am    Post subject: Interesting Reply with quote

On 2/20/2021 8:59 AM, Steve Williams wrote:
Quote:


That IS interesting.

"The closed loop lithium-ion battery resource recovery system yields
... sustainable production of battery-grade lithium, cobalt and nickel
..."

"Sustainable," eh?  OK, then, what's the environmental footprint of
the recycling process?  How does that compare to the original mining
of these materials?

Also, "The process recovers 95% of all lithium-ion battery materials
..."  So recycling extends the life cycle of these materials 20X
(minus the recycling footprint).  Significant, but not, by definition,
"sustainable."

I'm often left scratching my head over the framing of news about
energy production and storage.  Yes, charging an electric car with
centrally-generated electricity produces less carbon and particulates
than a car that burns its own gas.  (Don't forget the life cycle costs
of solar panels, wind turbines, hydroelectric dams, and transmission.
Even microgrids!)  But, like adding lanes to a freeway, will electric
cars increase miles driven?

Even if not, is it "sustainable," or does it only push the
environmental collapse further in the future?

What's my point?  I don't actually know.  Mostly, I'd like to see news
coverage frame this more honestly.  Instead of claiming this makes
batteries "sustainable," we might say this "reduces the environmental
cost by X%."  Even that doesn't tell the whole story, but at least
it's closer to the truth.
Whenever I see posts like this, I hear, 'This stuff isn't a perfect

solution, so we should just let Big Oil and Big Coal run our lives until
there's no livable environment.'

Why not mentally insert one word ('more'), and be happy that
improvements are being made?

Charlie

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1659
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:59 pm    Post subject: Interesting Reply with quote

Sorry you chose to respond like a politician.
Carbon footprint is NOT about elemental carbon. It is the carbon
compounds your activities generate, like carbon dioxide and others that
have a major impact on greenhouse gas effect.
Might as well be afraid of di-hydrogen oxide, especially when temps are
below zero.

On 2/20/2021 8:31 AM, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net wrote:
Quote:


Hi Steve;
In other words you would like to see scientifically accurate articles written by scientifically ignorant writers.
These are the same folks who would have us afraid of the element "Carbon," as in our "Carbon Footprint."
Cheers! Stu.



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Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 7:11 am    Post subject: Interesting Reply with quote

Hi Kelly;
Just for the record, you have missed my point, which was that the actual culprits are carbon dioxide and other carbon compounds, not elemental carbon, of which most all living things are composed, including ourselves. Also, for the record, I am an a-political retired electro-mechanical engineer.
Cheers! Stu.

---


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