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EFIS - BMA or GRT?
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dan.beadle(at)inclinesoft
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Does anyone have recommendations on GRT vs BMA-Lite?  I am looking for a reliable IFR unit.  I will go with Dual AHRS, separate avionics buss/battery, etc.  The real decision is which vendor – prices turn out to be pretty similar.  

   

Thanks  

   

Dan

Bruce(at)glasair.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 10:09 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

My feelings0 on low cost non-certified EFIS systems are fairly well known. From what I've0 heard GRT is more stable. Do yourself and your family a favor and install a0 third separate attitude reference steam gauge.

  

  

 

Bruce

www.glasair.org

   [quote]   

   --

dave(at)abrahamson.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Remember to check on availability of any system you plan to 

install.  I've waited over 4 months for my GRT units, and there's at 

least one more to go.  Also look closely at how much information each 

company provides on interfacing their products with the other 

avionics you plan to install.  In GRT's defense, they provide the 

cases for the AHRS and EFISes, the real magnetometer, and harness, so 

you can proceed with installation.  If you are also installing a 430, 

GTX330, and DigiflightII VSGS, the interfacing schematic is spot 

on.  OTOH, the harness is very rudimentary, tech support not 

responsive, and delivery date impossible to pin down.

rv9jim(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:26 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Dave,

        Its worth the wait. I have a dual panel from GRT and my past

history with them is priceless.  They have been very resopnsive to everey

queston.  Remember, they are a very small company and thus may seem

unresponsive.  Not the case.  Call them if you want.  Sandy is very good

at answering questions and Greg  and Todd are usually right there.  Ive

used their products for 9 years and find them IMHO one of the best.  I

just don't know who the other one is. ))



Jim Nelson

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

BMA is computer people trying to design airplane stuff, GRT is big airplane people designing little airplane stuff. I work in military avionics development and can tell the difference straight away. IMHO GRT have identified the issues that make these systems work well and designed their system accordingly. BMA looks pretty. The GRT have very good integration with Trutrak autopilots and with radios such as SL-30 and GNS-430. Autopilot design is an art in itself, I think GRT have taken a better approach. My view is that GRT is just better designed for the task. I’m sure BMA does the job most of the time, but I think a GRT unit will be better in almost all cases.  

   

Yours, Peter  

RV-6A Arlington, TX  

   

--

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

PS Have you considered Advanced Flight Systems? They also seem to have a very well engineered product. http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/  

   

Pete  

   

--

lists(at)stevet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

This is a cheap shot.  The BMA stuff is excellent.   I own two BMA units and I have had nothing but superior support.  I don't know about GRT, but I'm also not going to dis  them just to make my opinion stand out.  

BMA has a bulletin board on their site.  Look it over.  You'll find support as well as criticism.  But my experience has been excellent and I think that their product is second-to-none.

 

Best Regards,



Steve Thomas 

SteveT.Net

805-569-0336 Office

________________________________________________________________________ 



On Aug 5, 2006, at 8:54 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  BMA is computer people trying to design airplane stuff

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 1:53 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Steve,  

   

It’s great to hear you have had excellent support. Sorry you took my comment that way, its not meant to be, just my assessment as someone who has been designing military avionic systems for many years. As an example, if you look at the framing rate for calculation and screen refresh of flight critical functions, you will find that GRT (and may be others) process those functions at a faster rate than BMA does. That has a direct impact on your ability to control the aircraft in IMC. I’m not saying that BMA is in any way dangerous or inadequate, just that GRT is better in some functional aspects that are relevant to the question about what’s best for IFR.  

         

This is a cheap shot.   <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  

  

    

BMA is computer people trying to design airplane stuff

mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Great company too.  AT the Top of the A list.  

   

Mike Larkin  

   

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Pengilly

 Sent: Saturday,  August 05, 2006 9:02  AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: EFIS - BMA or GRT?  

   

PS Have you considered Advanced Flight Systems? They also seem to have a very well engineered product. http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/  

   

Pete  

   

--

mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Dan,  

   

BMA and GRT are not even in the same ball park.  I have used product from both company’s more then once for my own and other peoples aircraft.  I’ll keep this short, I have an A list ( would recommend) , B list ( OK but not the tops) and C list ( would not recommend) for most of the avionics companies out there.  BMA is on the C list and GRT is on the A list.  GMT has been in the business for a long time and makes good robust reliable equipment.  And second and most importantly their support is Great!  They stand behind everything they make and they know their stuff and are very knowledgeable.  On the other hand BMA’s equipment is good for the hobbies aviator looking for some cool functions in a box but doesn’t plain on banking his life on how well it works.  I have experienced three major problems with BMA stuff: 1 – Their EFIS systems are not stable when you enter areas in clouds of high P-static.  It is predictable that the BMA will fail when the airplane is highly charged in the clouds. 2 – I have been able to tumble the gyro on every BMA system I have used up to the G3 line.  I must say the fast erect function works well (hardly a consolation). 3 – The compass system sucks plain and simple.  Now on to the most important issue, the customer support is as bad as their compass system.  The folks at BMA are a very arrogant bunch who with regularity treats you like you a three year old.  Just the other day at Oshkosh I ask one of the BMA people if they had an upgrade or exchange program for the folks who just purchased the G3 looking to go up to the G4 system.  They said yes they did, and I quote “you can Ebay your old one and well sell you a new one.”  In my opinion the only thing BMA stuff is good for is golfing off a tee.  

   

--

mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Steve,  

   

I would disagree with you position about BMA.  I have used BMA, Dynon, Chelton, GRT, Advanced, Honeywell, and Crossbow.  You are either lucky with yours or you don’t fly in the clouds.  I have installed three BMA systems for folks including myself and have flown behind five and they all suck in the clouds when the airplane picks up P-static.  I have had failures on units that I used direct ground shielded wires on every connection and still experienced poor performance with p-static.  Try this with you airplane, roll 90 left bank and pull a min. of 2gs for 40 degrees or so and roll 180 deg to right bank and pull a min. of 2gs  for 40 degrees and repeat once more and tell me what happens.  Try it!  

   

Mike Larkin  

   

   

--

N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

On the other hand, there are several Corvair builders who have gotten 

the same sort of brusque brush-off responses trying to get GRT to 

help them make the tach on the EIS work with their engines, to the 

point that they have switched from GRT to another brand of tach.  I 

wonder if the EIS and the EFIS staff are completely separate within GRT.



Do a Google on "Grand Rapids" Site:FlyCorvair.com



Dave Morris



At 05:44 PM 8/5/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  GMT has been in the business for a long time and makes good robust 

reliable equipment.  And second and most importantly their support 

is Great!  They stand behind everything they make and they know 

their stuff and are very knowledgeable.  ....  The folks at BMA are 

a very arrogant bunch who with regularity treats you like you a 

three year old.  Just the other day at Oshkosh I ask one of the BMA 

people if they had an upgrade or exchange program for the folks who 

just purchased the G3 looking to go up to the G4 system.  They said 

yes they did, and I quote "you can Ebay your old one and well sell 

you a new one."

Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 6:06 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Dan,

 

 Have you looked at Advanced Control Systems AF-3500 and AF-3400?  Great looking EFIS with engine monitor on same screen or separate screen, certified AHRS (Crossbow 500, the good one), and a good reputation.  I'd been planning to use the GRT system, but researched the AF-3500 and saw it at OSH, now I'm sold on the AF-3500.  

 

 My views on the three choices I considered:

 

 Advanced Control Systems: strong history with their engine monitor line (Van's uses it).  Great reputation according to the folks at Crossbow and TruTrak (both are collaborating with Advanced on integration).  Use of the certified Crossbow 500 AHRS (hardware and software) is a selling point.  Screen looks great, even in direct sun.  The EFIS-DG and on-screen HSI were the deal-makers for me.  Code written in C and assembly, no other operating system to eat computer cycles.  Well-regarded AoA.  Downside: AF-3500 is a new product, little to no field history on the EFIS product yet.

 

 GRT:  Strong history of good products and good support.  I've been flying their EIS 4000 for 7 years, and like it a lot.  GRT EFIS resolution is a bit blocky.  No DG presentation on main EFIS screen (I like N/S/E/W DG presentation -- helps my situational awareness).  EFIS DG code rides on Windows CE.  HITS concept is cool.

 

 Blue Mountain:  Arrogance, rotten customer interaction.   I was considering the company, but the first time I approached their booth at OSH I watched a very interested customer, ready to make a purchase, who expressed his reservation about the operating logic of the unit he was considering.  In that unit, the Blue Mountain EFIS required one to go to a screen without visible horizon to adjust altimeter setting.  That's obviously a concern... you have to loose your horizon reference to enter a new barometer setting, which would be bad in IMC.  The response to the concern from the Blue Mountain staff:  "don't buy our unit."  They went out of their way to run the guy off.  That was all I needed to hear.  Blue Mountain was off the table for me.

 

 FWIW...

 

 Tim Lewis

 home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a

  	  Quote: 	
		  -- 

Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction 	
 

 

 Dan Beadle wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		                     

Does anyone have recommendations on GRT vs BMA-Lite?  I am looking for a reliable IFR unit.  I will go with Dual AHRS, separate avionics buss/battery, etc.  The real decision is which vendor – prices turn out to be pretty similar.   

    

Thanks   

    

Dan

Bret Smith

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 178
Location: Mineral Bluff, GA

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Tim, you failed to note that while the GRT EFIS has a map0 screen capable of XM weather overlay and traffic (from Garmin 330 XPR), AFS has0 no map, no weather nor traffic capabilities.  Note: neither does0 Dynon.

  

 I wonder if AFS is considering adding this feature in order0 to be competitive with everyone else (GRT, BMA, Chelton)

  

 Bret Smith

 RV-9A (91314)

 Mineral Bluff, GA

 www.FlightInnovations.com

  



   From:0 owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com0 [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim0 Lewis

Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:01 PM

To:0 aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: EFIS -0 BMA or GRT?

 

Dan,



Have you looked at Advanced Control Systems AF-3500 and0 AF-3400?  Great looking EFIS with engine monitor on same screen or separate0 screen, certified AHRS (Crossbow 500, the good one), and a good0 reputation.  I'd been planning to use the GRT system, but researched the0 AF-3500 and saw it at OSH, now I'm sold on the AF-3500.  



My views0 on the three choices I considered:



Advanced Control Systems: strong0 history with their engine monitor line (Van's uses it).  Great reputation0 according to the folks at Crossbow and TruTrak (both are collaborating with0 Advanced on integration).  Use of the certified Crossbow 500 AHRS (hardware0 and software) is a selling point.  Screen looks great, even in direct0 sun.  The EFIS-DG and on-screen HSI were the deal-makers for me.  Code0 written in C and assembly, no other operating system to eat computer0 cycles.  Well-regarded AoA.  Downside: AF-3500 is a new product,0 little to no field history on the EFIS product yet.



GRT:  Strong0 history of good products and good support.  I've been flying their EIS 40000 for 7 years, and like it a lot.  GRT EFIS resolution is a bit blocky. 0 No DG presentation on main EFIS screen (I like N/S/E/W DG presentation -- helps0 my situational awareness).  EFIS DG code rides on Windows CE.  HITS0 concept is cool.



Blue Mountain:  Arrogance, rotten customer0 interaction.   I was considering the company, but the first time I0 approached their booth at OSH I watched a very interested customer, ready to0 make a purchase, who expressed his reservation about the operating logic of the0 unit he was considering.  In that unit, the Blue Mountain EFIS required one0 to go to a screen without visible horizon to adjust altimeter setting. 0 That's obviously a concern... you have to loose your horizon reference to enter0 a new barometer setting, which would be bad in IMC.  The response to the0 concern from the Blue Mountain staff:  "don't buy our unit."  They0 went out of their way to run the guy off.  That was all I needed to  hear.  Blue Mountain was off the table for me.



FWIW...



Tim0 Lewis

home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a

 	  Quote: 	
		  --0

Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction 	




Dan Beadle wrote:0  	  Quote: 	
		        (at)page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; } P.MsoNormal { 	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } LI.MsoNormal { 	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } DIV.MsoNormal { 	FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman" } A:link { 	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlink { 	COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } A:visited { 	COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { 	COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline } SPAN.EmailStyle17 { 	COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: personal-compose } DIV.Section1 { 	page: Section1 }        

Does anyone have recommendations0   on GRT vs BMA-Lite?  I am looking for a reliable IFR unit.  I will0   go with Dual AHRS, separate avionics buss/battery, etc.  The real    decision is which vendor – prices turn out to be pretty0   similar.   

   

Thanks   

   

Dan

_________________
Bret Smith
RV-9A (Emp)

khorton01(at)rogers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 2:57 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Be careful about buying an EFIS on the basis that it has more features than the competition.  It takes a lot of effort to create and debug each feature.  If a vendor adds features too quickly, the time spent creating the new features could detract from the time needed to debug the existing features.  If is far better to get the important stuff working properly first, then slowly add new features.  Too much too soon is a recipe for disaster.

Obviously, if you need a feature, then you have to purchase a unit with that feature.  But if you are looking at a product that hasn't been on the market that long (e.g. Advanced Control Systems) be suspicious if it has as many features as products that have been on the market much longer.



Kevin Horton



On 5 Aug 2006, at 23:36, Bret Smith wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Tim, you failed to note that while the GRT EFIS has a map screen capable of XM weather overlay and traffic (from Garmin 330 XPR), AFS has no map, no weather nor traffic capabilities.  Note: neither does Dynon.

 

I wonder if AFS is considering adding this feature in order to be competitive with everyone else (GRT, BMA, Chelton)

 

Bret Smith

RV-9A (91314)

Mineral Bluff, GA

www.FlightInnovations.com

 



From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tim LewisSent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:01 PMTo: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)Subject: Re: EFIS - BMA or GRT?



Dan,



Have you looked at Advanced Control Systems AF-3500 and AF-3400?  Great looking EFIS with engine monitor on same screen or separate screen, certified AHRS (Crossbow 500, the good one), and a good reputation.  I'd been planning to use the GRT system, but researched the AF-3500 and saw it at OSH, now I'm sold on the AF-3500.  



My views on the three choices I considered:



Advanced Control Systems: strong history with their engine monitor line (Van's uses it).  Great reputation according to the folks at Crossbow and TruTrak (both are collaborating with Advanced on integration).  Use of the certified Crossbow 500 AHRS (hardware and software) is a selling point.  Screen looks great, even in direct sun.  The EFIS-DG and on-screen HSI were the deal-makers for me.  Code written in C and assembly, no other operating system to eat computer cycles.  Well-regarded AoA.  Downside: AF-3500 is a new product, little to no field history on the EFIS product yet.



GRT:  Strong history of good products and good support.  I've been flying their EIS 4000 for 7 years, and like it a lot.  GRT EFIS resolution is a bit blocky.  No DG presentation on main EFIS screen (I like N/S/E/W DG presentation -- helps my situational awareness).  EFIS DG code rides on Windows CE.  HITS concept is cool.



Blue Mountain:  Arrogance, rotten customer interaction.   I was considering the company, but the first time I approached their booth at OSH I watched a very interested customer, ready to make a purchase, who expressed his reservation about the operating logic of the unit he was considering.  In that unit, the Blue Mountain EFIS required one to go to a screen without visible horizon to adjust altimeter setting.  That's obviously a concern... you have to loose your horizon reference to enter a new barometer setting, which would be bad in IMC.  The response to the concern from the Blue Mountain staff:  "don't buy our unit."  They went out of their way to run the guy off.  That was all I needed to hear.  Blue Mountain was off the table for me.



FWIW...



Tim Lewis

home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a

 	  Quote: 	
		  --0

Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction 	




Dan Beadle wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  

Does anyone have recommendations on GRT vs BMA-Lite?  I am looking for a reliable IFR unit.  I will go with Dual AHRS, separate avionics buss/battery, etc.  The real decision is which vendor – prices turn out to be pretty similar.



Thanks



Dan

Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Bret,

 

 Good points.  My focus has been on getting the EFIS and engine monitor functions covered, with an eye to considering other solutions for terrain, weather, and moving map.  

 

 I'm currently displaying WxWorx and sectional charts on a Tablet PC (Fujitsu) hung from the panel of my RV-6A.  For my RV-10 (where I plan to use the AF-3500 as EFIS and engine monitor) I'm planning to panel mount a Garmin 496 to display weather, terrain, and moving map.  My comm/nav/GPS radio will be a GNS 530.  The GPS 496 will import the 530's active flight plan and pop it up on the 496's screen along with the  map and the weather.  I'm leaning toward the 496 for terrain, wx, and moving map because it's resolution is better than the GNS 530's, and the 496 does a better job of displaying weather than the GNS-530/GDL-69.  The GPS 496 also provides a backup GPS, including approach waypoints, with an internal battery, and it costs less than adding the GDL-69 to the GNS 530.

 

 The 496 will also display traffic, if one buys the Garmin 330 Transponder.  

 

 Regards,

 

 Tim

 -- 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction 	
 

 

 Bret Smith wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		           Tim, you failed to note that while the GRT EFIS has a map screen capable of XM weather overlay and traffic (from Garmin 330 XPR), AFS has no map, no weather nor traffic capabilities.  Note: neither does Dynon.

    

   I wonder if AFS is considering adding this feature in order to be competitive with everyone else (GRT, BMA, Chelton)

    

   Bret Smith

   RV-9A (91314)

   Mineral Bluff, GA

   www.FlightInnovations.com

    

   

      From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis

   Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:01 PM

   To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

   Subject: Re: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

   

   

 Dan,

   

 Have you looked at Advanced Control Systems AF-3500 and AF-3400?  Great looking EFIS with engine monitor on same screen or separate screen, certified AHRS (Crossbow 500, the good one), and a good reputation.  I'd been planning to use the GRT system, but researched the AF-3500 and saw it at OSH, now I'm sold on the AF-3500.  

   

 My views on the three choices I considered:

   

 Advanced Control Systems: strong history with their engine monitor line (Van's uses it).  Great reputation according to the folks at Crossbow and TruTrak (both are collaborating with Advanced on integration).  Use of the certified Crossbow 500 AHRS (hardware and software) is a selling point.  Screen looks great, even in direct sun.  The EFIS-DG and on-screen HSI were the deal-makers for me.  Code written in C and assembly, no other operating system to eat computer cycles.  Well-regarded AoA.  Downside: AF-3500 is a new product, little to no field history on the EFIS product yet.

   

 GRT:  Strong history of good products and good support.  I've been flying their EIS 4000 for 7 years, and like it a lot.  GRT EFIS resolution is a bit blocky.  No DG presentation on main EFIS screen (I like N/S/E/W DG presentation -- helps my situational awareness).  EFIS DG code rides on Windows CE.  HITS concept is cool.

   

 Blue Mountain:  Arrogance, rotten customer interaction.   I was considering the company, but the first time I approached their booth at OSH I watched a very interested customer, ready to make a purchase, who expressed his reservation about the operating logic of the unit he was considering.  In that unit, the Blue Mountain EFIS required one to go to a screen without visible horizon to adjust altimeter setting.  That's obviously a concern... you have to loose your horizon reference to enter a new barometer setting, which would be bad in IMC.  The response to the concern from the Blue Mountain staff:  "don't buy our unit."  They went out of their way to run the guy off.  That was all I needed to hear.  Blue Mountain was off the table for me.

   

 FWIW...

   

 Tim Lewis

 home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a

    	  Quote: 	
		  -- 

Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)

RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs

RV-10 #40059 under construction 	
   

   

 Dan Beadle wrote:    	  Quote: 	
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Does anyone have recommendations on GRT vs BMA-Lite?  I am looking for a reliable IFR unit.  I will go with Dual AHRS, separate avionics buss/battery, etc.  The real decision is which vendor – prices turn out to be pretty similar.     

     

Thanks     

     

Dan

gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:36 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Steve:

  

Peter can answer for himself, but I knew exactly what he meant. 

Greg at GRT has an aeroapce background (Honeywell) and the 

Gent at BMA, also named Greg and also talented, has a back-

ground in computers. 

  

I got Peter's comment immediantly. I did not see a cheap shot. I 

also think GRT has a better system hierarchy, more "aircraft like" 

and less computer like. However BMA makes nice stuff.

  

The good, bad and ugly are a matter of record. Peter did not bring 

up any issues, which both companies have to some degree or another. 

Mainly the issue is they are both small companies and their production 

rates are small. Sometime demand exceeds capacity. I have heard 

of protracted delays with BMA as well as the post that was made 

here about GRT delivery delay, which may be Oshkosh related.

I concur, Sandy and Greg at GRT are super to deal with. 

   

  I have been  dealing with GRT for over 10 years and they are nice 

folks and easy to get along with. I do not have any personal 

experience with BMA, except what I have read on other fourms. I 

think BMA offerings have some unique features worth considering, 

but from just a comfort standpoint GRT is my choice.

   

  Both companies know how tight the experimental comunity is 

and try to please. I would look at features and value primarily, 

and what your requirements are. Both BMA and GRT have matured 

in the market. BMA was first and may have suffered from that 

initially. GRT has had the EFIS on market for a number of years 

and has also matured. It is a hard choice. Look at them all including 

Advanced (which is brand new) and Dynon (which is bargain priced). 

If I was VFR I would go Dynon for cost and IFR I would go GRT. I 

do know GRT uses a top notch AHRS like Chelton does, which 

is a certified unit. Not sure  if BMA still uses a GPS signal to 

  show attitude.

   

  Best advice is fly behind the EFIS if at all possible before buying.

   

   

  Cheers George



   

   

  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   

  >From: Steve Thomas <lists(at)stevet.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		  Subject: Re: EFIS - BMA or GRT?



This is a cheap shot.  The BMA stuff is excellent.   I own two BMA  

units and I have had nothing but superior support.  I don't know  

about GRT, but I'm also not going to dis  them just to make my   

opinion stand out.



BMA has a bulletin board on their site.  Look it over.  You'll find  

support as well as criticism.  But my experience has been excellent  

and I think that their product is second-to-none.



Best Regards,



Steve Thomas

SteveT.Net

805-569-0336 Office

________________________________________________________________________
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  On Aug 5, 2006, at 8:54 AM, Peter Pengilly wrote:



 BMA is computer people trying to design airplane stuff

mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

Here is a note for you tablet PC guys….  If you plain to fly above 10,000 ft msl then you are going to need a solid state ‘hard drive’.  I have experienced many hard drive failures before we figured out what the problem was.  Come to find out when the air gets thin you don’t have enough air cushion to keep the hard drive head off the memory platters.  When the head hits the platter the drive fails.  We had to convert all of our on board pc’s to solid state drives.  This was very expensive and you only get limited amount of space, so say goodbye to all those music files.  

   

Mike Larkin  

   

Lancair Legacy  

TS-11  

Kitfox IV  

A-320  

   

-----Original Message-----

 From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis

 Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2006 4:59 AM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS - BMA or GRT?  

   

Bret,

 

 Good points.  My focus has been on getting the EFIS and engine monitor functions covered, with an eye to considering other solutions for terrain, weather, and moving map.  

 

 I'm currently displaying WxWorx and sectional charts on a Tablet PC (Fujitsu) hung from the panel of my RV-6A.  For my RV-10 (where I plan to use the AF-3500 as EFIS and engine monitor) I'm planning to panel mount a Garmin 496 to display weather, terrain, and moving map.  My comm/nav/GPS radio will be a GNS 530.  The GPS 496 will import the 530's active flight plan and pop it up on the 496's screen along with the  map and the weather.  I'm leaning toward the 496 for terrain, wx, and moving map because it's resolution is better than the GNS 530's, and the 496 does a better job of displaying weather than the GNS-530/GDL-69.  The GPS 496 also provides a backup GPS, including approach waypoints, with an internal battery, and it costs less than adding the GDL-69 to the GNS 530.

 

 The 496 will also display traffic, if one buys the Garmin 330 Transponder.  

 

 Regards,

 

 Tim

 --  <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>   	  Quote: 	
		  Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrsRV-10 #40059 under construction 	
  



 

 Bret Smith wrote:   

Tim, you failed to note that while the GRT EFIS has a map screen capable of XM weather overlay and traffic (from Garmin 330 XPR), AFS has no map, no weather nor traffic capabilities.  Note: neither does Dynon.  

   

I wonder if AFS is considering adding this feature in order to be competitive with everyone else (GRT, BMA, Chelton)    

   

  

Bret Smith  

RV-9A (91314)  

Mineral Bluff, GA  

www.FlightInnovations.com    

   

  

       

  

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis

 Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2006 10:01 PM

 To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: EFIS - BMA or GRT?  

Dan,

 

 Have you looked at Advanced Control Systems AF-3500 and AF-3400?  Great looking EFIS with engine monitor on same screen or separate screen, certified AHRS (Crossbow 500, the good one), and a good reputation.  I'd been planning to use the GRT system, but researched the AF-3500 and saw it at OSH, now I'm sold on the AF-3500.  

 

 My views on the three choices I considered:

 

 Advanced Control Systems: strong history with their engine monitor line (Van's uses it).  Great reputation according to the folks at Crossbow and TruTrak (both are collaborating with Advanced on integration).  Use of the certified Crossbow 500 AHRS (hardware and software) is a selling point.  Screen looks great, even in direct sun.  The EFIS-DG and on-screen HSI were the deal-makers for me.  Code written in C and assembly, no other operating system to eat computer cycles.  Well-regarded AoA.  Downside: AF-3500 is a new product, little to no field history on the EFIS product yet.

 

 GRT:  Strong history of good products and good support.  I've been flying their EIS 4000 for 7 years, and like it a lot.  GRT EFIS resolution is a bit blocky.  No DG presentation on main EFIS screen (I like N/S/E/W DG presentation -- helps my situational awareness).  EFIS DG code rides on Windows CE.  HITS concept is cool.

 

 Blue Mountain:  Arrogance, rotten customer interaction.   I was considering the company, but the first time I approached their booth at OSH I watched a very interested customer, ready to make a purchase, who expressed his reservation about the operating logic of the unit he was considering.  In that unit, the Blue Mountain EFIS required one to go to a screen without visible horizon to adjust altimeter setting.  That's obviously a concern... you have to loose your horizon reference to enter a new barometer setting, which would be bad in IMC.  The response to the concern from the Blue Mountain staff:  "don't buy our unit."  They went out of their way to run the guy off.  That was all I needed to hear.  Blue Mountain was off the table for me.

 

 FWIW...

 

 Tim Lewis

 home.earthlink.net/~timrv6a <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>   	  Quote: 	
		  -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrsRV-10 #40059 under construction 	
  



 

 Dan Beadle wrote:   

Does anyone have recommendations on GRT vs BMA-Lite?  I am looking for a reliable IFR unit.  I will go with Dual AHRS, separate avionics buss/battery, etc.  The real decision is which vendor – prices turn out to be pretty similar.  

Thanks  

Dan

mlas(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:34 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

GRT was first not BMT.  BMT was first with a stand alone retail EFIS product.  GRT has been making components that support other aviation products such as air data computer for Chelton (Serria at the start) as an example.  

   

Mike Larkin  

   

--

brian

Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 643
Location: Sacramento, California, USA

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:28 am Post subject: EFIS - BMA or GRT?

On Aug 6, 2006, at 10:28 AM, Mike wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Here is a note for you tablet PC guys….  If you plain to fly above  

 10,000 ft msl then you are going to need a solid state ‘hard  

 drive’.  I have experienced many hard drive failures before we  

 figured out what the problem was.  Come to find out when the air  

 gets thin you don’t have enough air cushion to keep the hard drive  

 head off the memory platters.  When the head hits the platter the  

 drive fails.  We had to convert all of our on board pc’s to solid  

 state drives.  This was very expensive and you only get limited  

 amount of space, so say goodbye to all those music files.

Put the drive(s) in a sealed box that will hold sea-level pressure. A  
	


USB or firewire interface will ensure you don't have too many wires  

to route out of your box.



Brian Lloyd                         361 Catterline Way

brian-yak AT lloyd DOT com          Folsom, CA 95630

+1.916.367.2131 (voice)             +1.270.912.0788 (fax)



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .

— Antoine de Saint-Exupéry

_________________
Brian Lloyd
brian-yak at lloyd dot com
+1.916.367.2131 (voice) +1.270.912.0788 (fax)

I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things . . .
- Antoine de Saint-Exupery

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