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Two Series 7 Questions

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darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:04 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into a few questions.



1.  The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to clean out the existing threads.  I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8" NPT tap.  Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the tank that size.  QUESTION:  What are the correct sized as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8").



2.  The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with gasoline.  I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled 9AR.  QUESTION:  Is this the thread sealant I should use?  And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked?



Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet to figure it out.  What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks?  I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible.  I know there has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know something.  There is always the option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning.  But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the home field.  If anyone knows of a product that will work, I would appreciate hearing about it.



Thanks guys,



Darin Hawkes

Series 7

jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

Darin,

	The 1/8" and 5/8" NPT are correct.  The 1/8" NPT is are the fuel sight tube

fittings and vent tube.  The 5/8" NPT is the main fuel line where the finger

strainer is used.  The 9AR is a good fuel sealant has worked well on ours.



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



--

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

Wow, E85 will eat most any thing in a fiberglass tank as well as the 

sealant for the fittings. E10 is bad enough.

  Lots of fitting sealer used over  the years for various members of 

the list. I am sure you will get many suggestions. Some work some 

don't. My suggestion is to call Permatex and get ahold of the 

application engineer and tell him what fuel you want to use and that 

you have a fiberglass tank. Do not tell him it is for an airplane. 

The guy will tell you what their best product is. And I bet it will 

be different than when I called 2 years ago.

  Don't worry about the tap - just use the one that fits.



BTW, you should reconsider using E85 its bad stuff and I know of no 

engine used in planes that will not be damaged by the stuff, unless 

you are using something out of an auto less than a year old that was 

originally designed for E85. I know of no sloshing compound designed 

for pure or 85% alcohol. You would need nylon, polyurethane, or 

Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make 

your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the 

fuel  system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10%

Regards, Paul

====================



At 03:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



I am prepping my tanks for install on my Series 7 and have run into 

a few questions.



1.  The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks 

to clean out the existing threads.  I then says to use a 1/8" NPT 

and 3/8" NPT tap.  Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no 

holes in the tank that size.  QUESTION:  What are the correct sized 

as I will need to buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 

5/8" NPT, not 1/8").



2.  The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible 

with gasoline.  I have a small tube of sealant that came with the 

kit labeled 9AR.  QUESTION:  Is this the thread sealant I should 

use?  And if not, can someone suggest a one that has worked?



Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I have yet 

to figure it out.  What has everyone been doing about the E85 fuel 

compatibility of the resin in our tanks?  I have yet to find a slosh 

that is compatible.  I know there has been at least a couple of 

Kitfoxes built within the last year, so someone should know 

something.  There is always the option of simply not using gasoline 

and sticking with 100LL with a lead scavenger which is what I am 

planning.  But is is nice to be able to fill up with premium 

unleaded when at the home field.  If anyone knows of a product that 

will work, I would appreciate hearing about it.



Thanks guys,



Darin Hawkes

Series 7





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=65054#65054

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

At 02:04 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  1.  The manual says to carefully tap the the openings in the tanks to 

clean out the existing threads.  I then says to use a 1/8" NPT and 3/8" 

NPT tap.  Obviously the 1/8" must be a typo as there are no holes in the 

tank that size.  QUESTION:  What are the correct sized as I will need to 

buy taps this size (they look to be 3/8" NPT and 5/8" NPT, not 1/8").


	


The sizes recommended are correct. A 1/8" NPT looks like 3/8" NC. It's a 

bit confusing because they're pipe sizes.



However, if I had to do it over again I'd do some serious investigation 

into putting a permanent 1/2" NPT boss at the intakes to facilitate 

repeated removal and installation of the finger strainers. The 1/8 NPT 

brass vent boss is permanent, since the vent is attached using a 90 degree 

AN fitting into a pipe/flare junction, which is never removed from the 

brass boss which is never removed from the tank. However the 3/8" NPT 

finger strainers are threaded into the tank directly which makes 

maintenance a pain. Eventually the threads will fail and I'll have to do 

the 1/2" boss installation with the tanks in the plane. I understand using 

a 1/2" boss will raise the pick-ups about 3/16", but since I never run the 

tanks that dry anyway I don't think it will be a problem.



 	  Quote: 	
		  2.  The manual also says to use a thread sealant that is compatible with 

gasoline.  I have a small tube of sealant that came with the kit labeled 

9AR.  QUESTION:  Is this the thread sealant I should use?  And if not, can 

someone suggest a one that has worked?


	


I tried lots of things which didn't work. (Permatex 1 & 2 & Grey.) The one 

that did was the 2-part polysulfide sealant sold by, among others, Aircraft 

Spruce. It's hideously expensive and messy to work with, but it definitely 

works with 100LL, even on a polyethylene tank. (This before Herb found the 

great polyethylene adhesive. I should have looked harder. Thanks Herb!)

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

At 04:10 PM 10/1/2006, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  You would need nylon, polyurethane, or

Aluminum tanks. Then you would have to use Teflon hoses and then make

your engine compatible buy changing the materials in the

fuel  system. Its a real big deal to use more that 10%

Regards, Paul


	


Paul,

         I wouldn't go that far. Most gasoline storage tanks are made, now, 

of vinylester / E-glass laminate. It's entirely possible, (though 

unlikely,) that Skystar used vinylester in their original fabrication and 

that the tanks are impervious to auto and aviation fuel. Maybe John McBean 

at Kitfox will know.

Guy

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 4:41 pm Post subject: Re: Two Series 7 Questions

Thanks guys!  Funny thing is about 15 minutes after I posted this question about the taps, I realized they are NPT threads...I have read this many times in the manual and written it in the original post and still have no idea why I failed to notice the big capitalized NPT...maybe its that 2-part varnish I have been using...  



As for the tanks and fuel...we don't have any alcohol in our fuel out here yet but I am sure it is coming.  I will simply plan on using it until the ethynol bug hits and then switch to 100LL with a lead scavenger.  



Thanks again,



Darin Hawkes

Series 7

shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:21 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

http://www.age85.org/



Go to the above site and study for a while before making such claims below.

Many Lycomings and Continentals are run on AGE85 which is at least 85%

ethanol and generally closser to 90%.  Read for yourself.  Bob U.



---

shilocom(at)mcmsys.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

By the way the PR-1005-L slosh sold by ASP is good for Ethanol.   You can

call 1=800-237-6649 or ASP them selves.  Bob U.



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 5:43 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

Your post is the first I've heard of a lead scavenger can you tell me more

about this process?



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

I notice this fuel is so good it requires an STC. Available for only few

engines and it seems only on a C180.  This is uncertified fuel and there

fore should not be used when carrying paying passengers.



I noticed one of the constituents is bio-diesel  A fuel that has no specs

what ever.  So much for consistency.  Of course with the affinity ethanol

has for water/vapour you can't expect any consistency any way.



 The only plus I see is it is described as being no lead.  



Before using this stuff be sure your complete fuel system is ethanol

compatible and your insurance allows it's use.



I've said it before and I'll say it again.... Ethanol is a dismally poor, at

best, half baked, makeshift answer to a big question.  There are better

answers out there all we have to do is develop them.  Of course most of

these answers won't get politicians in agricultural ridings get re-elected



Alcohol and flight should be separated by at least twelve hours....always!



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject: Two Series 7 Questions

I feel fortunate that there is so little ethanol degraded fuel in this area.

There seems to be two or three things that can be done when dealing with a

substance that is better suited to a glass after flying than in a tank to

fly on.



1. The alcohol can be washed out of the fuel using plain old fashioned

water.  This of course has to be done in separate containers and the water

drained off before fuelling your plane.  There are a couple of

inconveniences, one, it requires separate containers that you won't be

flying to remote fields with and secondly, you cant be sure of what other

additives the water will wash out.



2. Find a source of non eth fuel.



3. A guy on another list says he has been using eth laced fuel for years

with no problems(composite tanks) He was premixing his gas for his R582.

Recently, within the last year, he installed a Jab and now uses a little top

lube (oil) in his gas in hopes that is why his tanks were not attacked by

the booze.  He may be right as it is more than possible that the alcohol may

have more affinity to oil than to epoxy.



The old dead horse now officially flogged again!

Noel



 	  Quote: 	
		   Lastly, and this has been beaten like a dead horse, but I 

 have yet to figure it out.  What has everyone been doing 

 about the E85 fuel compatibility of the resin in our tanks?  

 I have yet to find a slosh that is compatible.  I know there 

 has been at least a couple of Kitfoxes built within the last 

 year, so someone should know something.  There is always the 

 option of simply not using gasoline and sticking with 100LL 

 with a lead scavenger which is what I am planning.  But is is 

 nice to be able to fill up with premium unleaded when at the 

 home field.  If anyone knows of a product that will work, I 

 would appreciate hearing about it.

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

darinh

Joined: 20 Apr 2006
Posts: 327
Location: Utah

Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: Re: Two Series 7 Questions

Float Flyr,



We don't have ethynol laced fuel in my area yet either but I am sure it is coming.  I will use premium unleaded in my Series 7 until they start mixing the corn gas (ethynol) in.  At that point, I will make the switch to 100LL with a lead scavenger.  In my model III I always carried a bottle of the scavenger for when I fueled up while on X-country trips.  



The scavenger is called Decalin TCP and John McBean sells it on Sportplanellc.com.  Here is a link:



http://www.sportplanellc.com/Decalin%20TCP.htm



John uses it exclusively in his personal Kitfox as I understand and if its good for his Fox, it will be good for mine.



Darin Hawkes

Series 7

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