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Lightning speed mods

 
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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:39 am    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

To All,
I'm about ready to formally submit a proposal for my graduate thesis. I
would like all of your help. At the facilities here in Shelbyville Pete and
Nick have agreed to help me modify and flight test the prototype with some
speed modifications. My proposal includes the use of flap and aileron gap
seals as well as fairings for the eight flap hinges. In my literature
review I have found very little actual data from a technical peer-reviewed
type of a source on the flight testing of this type of speed modifications.
T

here are some manufacturers such as Lo Presti and Knots 2 U that have
"claims" of anywhere between 1 percent and 20 percent increase in speed.
Now logically we should get an increase in speed, range, endurance, climb
rate, etc. The big question becomes exactly how much we'll get from doing
these improvements. We'll do a before and after test and all the data will
be reduced to fit the standard day. In this way we can tell what the average
speed gain will be and not just pick the day that would give us the best
results.

I have got a design for the shape of the hinge fairings and Lamont said that
he would help me to fashion them. All the previous data has been for a
Piper Cherokee using metal gap seals and everything was attached using
screws. My idea is that we won't use any metal pieces and that the hinge
fairings will be much smoother and can be actually bonded to the wing
surface.

If successful, and the results give us a good enough speed gain, I will
contact a few different places and see if I can get molds made up to offer
this as a kit. What I need to know is if there's any interest in this? I
was asked if there was any market in this type of modification by the
department chair. I argued that there was. How much would you be willing
to pay for something that we'll say for now will give you 6-8 mph faster
speeds. If we could end up getting an additional 10mph speed through this
and perhaps other future ideas, how much good would it do to bump up the
aircraft's speed to 200+ mph at altitude?

Hopefully I'm right and there's folks out there on this board that thinks a
200mph speed is a whole seperate class than the 100mph speeds. So is it
worth an extra speed and fuel savings at cruise? In my opinion the fuel
flow on this plane is superior to competition in this speed range, but would
be even more so if the speed was 10-15mph higher.

Please everybody let me know what you think! I'll be anxiously awaiting
your responses.

Brian Whittingham


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cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Brian, I am building my Lightning right now and would
and would without doubt buy any product that would
make the plane faster. Charles Dewey

--- Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:

Quote:

Whittingham" <dashvii(at)hotmail.com>

To All,
I'm about ready to formally submit a proposal
for my graduate thesis. I
would like all of your help. At the facilities here
in Shelbyville Pete and
Nick have agreed to help me modify and flight test
the prototype with some
speed modifications. My proposal includes the use
of flap and aileron gap
seals as well as fairings for the eight flap hinges.
In my literature
review I have found very little actual data from a
technical peer-reviewed
type of a source on the flight testing of this type
of speed modifications.
T

here are some manufacturers such as Lo Presti and
Knots 2 U that have
"claims" of anywhere between 1 percent and 20
percent increase in speed.
Now logically we should get an increase in speed,
range, endurance, climb
rate, etc. The big question becomes exactly how
much we'll get from doing
these improvements. We'll do a before and after
test and all the data will
be reduced to fit the standard day. In this way we
can tell what the average
speed gain will be and not just pick the day that
would give us the best
results.

I have got a design for the shape of the hinge
fairings and Lamont said that
he would help me to fashion them. All the previous
data has been for a
Piper Cherokee using metal gap seals and everything
was attached using
screws. My idea is that we won't use any metal
pieces and that the hinge
fairings will be much smoother and can be actually
bonded to the wing
surface.

If successful, and the results give us a good enough
speed gain, I will
contact a few different places and see if I can get
molds made up to offer
this as a kit. What I need to know is if there's
any interest in this? I
was asked if there was any market in this type of
modification by the
department chair. I argued that there was. How
much would you be willing
to pay for something that we'll say for now will
give you 6-8 mph faster
speeds. If we could end up getting an additional
10mph speed through this
and perhaps other future ideas, how much good would
it do to bump up the
aircraft's speed to 200+ mph at altitude?

Hopefully I'm right and there's folks out there on
this board that thinks a
200mph speed is a whole seperate class than the
100mph speeds. So is it
worth an extra speed and fuel savings at cruise? In
my opinion the fuel
flow on this plane is superior to competition in
this speed range, but would
be even more so if the speed was 10-15mph higher.

Please everybody let me know what you think! I'll
be anxiously awaiting
your responses.

Brian Whittingham




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Kayberg(at)AOL.COM
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Brian,

I trust you have carefully reviewed Kent Paser's book "Speed with Economy; Experimental aircraft performance improment"

He did some careful testing and was able to get 64 mph increase in top speed over the stock Mustang II !!

Doug Koenigsberg


In a message dated 10/5/2006 9:40:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, dashvii(at)hotmail.com writes:
Quote:

To All,
I'm about ready to formally submit a proposal for my graduate thesis. I
would like all of your help. At the facilities here in Shelbyville Pete and
Nick have agreed to help me modify and flight test the prototype with some
speed modifications. My proposal includes the use of flap and aileron gap
seals as well as fairings for the eight flap hinges. In my literature
review I have found very little actual data from a technical peer-reviewed
type of a source on the flight testing of this type of speed modifications.
T

here are some manufacturers such as Lo Presti and Knots 2 U that have
"claims" of anywhere between 1 percent and 20 percent increase in speed.
Now logically we should get an increase in speed, range, endurance, climb
rate, etc. The big question becomes exactly how much we'll get from doing
these improvements. We'll do a before and after test and all the data will
be reduced to fit the standard day. In this way we can tell what the average
speed gain will be and not just pick the day that would give us the best
results.

I have got a design for the shape of the hinge fairings and Lamont said that
he would help me to fashion them. All the previous data has been for a
Piper Cherokee using metal gap seals and everything was attached using
screws. My idea is that we won't use any metal pieces and that the hinge
fairings will be much smoother and can be actually bonded to the wing
surface.

If successful, and the results give us a good enough speed gain, I will
contact a few different places and see if I can get molds made up to offer
this as a kit. What I need to know is if there's any interest in this? I
was asked if there was any market in this type of modification by the
department chair. I argued that there was. How much would you be willing
to pay for something that we'll say for now will give you 6-8 mph faster
speeds. If we could end up getting an additional 10mph speed through this
and perhaps other future ideas, how much good would it do to bump up the
aircraft's speed to 200+ mph at altitude?

Hopefully I'm right and there's folks out there on this board that thinks a
200mph speed is a whole seperate class than the 100mph speeds. So is it
worth an extra speed and fuel savings at cruise? In my opinion the fuel
flow on this plane is superior to competition in this speed range, but would
be even more so if the speed was 10-15mph higher.

Please everybody let me know what you think!  I'll be anxiously awaiting
your responses.

Brian Whittingham




[quote][b]


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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:40 am    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Doug,
I haven't run across that book, but I'm early on in my research. I will
certainly try and find a copy of it. A 63 mph increase in speed is
phenomonal! I have probed the old NACA report database and have searched
the AIAA reports. Most of what I have found is a series that HC Smith has
written about for AIAA.

I assume that you are interested in speed mods since you mentioned this
book? Thanks for the heads up. Brian W.


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dashvii(at)hotmail.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Buzz,
Did you ever get gap seals put on your Esqual? What kind of material
were you going to try for the gap seals? I went over to the maintenance
shop at Shelbyville today to look at a Cherokee with all of the Knots 2 U
speed mods. The pilot couldn't give me a before and after idea because
those were put on and STC'd before he bought the plane. He did tell me that
from the book he was supposed to get 800 fpm climbs and got about 1200-1400
normally. Just wondering if you ever got anything on and tested since I
talked with you last in Shelbyville. Thanks, Brian W.


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Daniel Vandenberg



Joined: 16 Apr 2006
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:46 am    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Paser's book is still available from Mustang Aeronautics, the current purveyor of the Mustang II:

http://www.mustangaero.com/Store/ShoppingCart/index.htm

Dan

Brian Whittingham <dashvii(at)hotmail.com> wrote:[quote] --> Lightning-List message posted by: "Brian Whittingham"

Doug,
I haven't run across that book, but I'm early on in my research. I will
certainly try and find a copy of it. A 63 mph increase in speed is
phenomonal! I have probed the old NACA report database and have searched
the AIAA reports. Most of what I have found is a series that HC Smith has
written about for AIAA.

I assume that you are interested in speed mods since you mentioned this
book? Thanks for the heads up. Brian Get your email and more, right on the [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42973/*http://www.yahoo.com/preview] new Yahoo.com[/url] [quote][b]


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lbmathias(at)verizon.net
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Brian,

I am scheduled to start building in late Nov and would be interested in
the speed mods.

Linda Mathias
---


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cdewey6969(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:12 pm    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Brian, This is Charles Dewey again and I will
undoubtedly buy any product that will make the
Lightning faster. My plane will be finished in a few
weeks, so I trust that the modifications you are
referring to can be added after the plane is already
built. Price would not prevent me from adding 10+
mph-it would be well worth it and make the Lightning
even more so one of the best planes for the money in
all general aviation and experimental aircraft ...

--- JOSEPH MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS
<lbmathias(at)verizon.net> wrote:

[quote]
MATHIAS LINDA MATHIAS" <lbmathias(at)verizon.net>

Brian,

I am scheduled to start building in late Nov and
would be interested in
the speed mods.


Linda Mathias
---


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tlhuffy(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Brian I'm a dealer in the Midwest and this seems very promising hope you can work with Nick Tom


--


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N1BZRich(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:39 pm    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

In a message dated 10/5/2006 2:46:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dashvii(at)hotmail.com writes:
Quote:
Buzz,
Did you ever get gap seals put on your Esqual? What kind of material
were you going to try for the gap seals?


Brian,
I had to put this project on the back burner. I just have too much going on right now. However, I did find some .010 Duralar (kind of like mylar but opaque) that is almost 4 inches wide. I think I had to buy the entire worlds supply as it came in a 750 foot roll. I had promised Nick enough to do the prototype Lightning, but since I am too buys to work this project, you guys are welcome to the supply of Duralar that I have so that you can do the experiments. We certainly have enough to do quite a few Lightnings and Esquals. I will bring it to Shelbyville the next time I get out that way. Will probably be sometime in early November.
Blue Skies,
Buz

[quote][b]


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ajhauter(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:11 pm    Post subject: Lightning speed mods Reply with quote

Can anyone shed the light on the design distinction between the lightning and esqual? Just curious if the esqual was the starting point and basic design enhancements were made from that design?
much obliged,

aj
On Oct 5, 2006, at 11:37 PM, N1BZRich(at)aol.com (N1BZRich(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] In a message dated 10/5/2006 2:46:32 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dashvii(at)hotmail.com (dashvii(at)hotmail.com) writes:
Quote:
Buzz,
   Did you ever get gap seals put on your Esqual?  What kind of material
were you going to try for the gap seals?


Brian,
     I had to put this project on the back burner.  I just have too much going on right now.  However, I did find some .010 Duralar (kind of like mylar but opaque) that is almost 4 inches wide.  I think I had to buy the entire worlds supply as it came in a 750 foot roll.  I had promised Nick enough to do the prototype Lightning, but since I am too buys to work this project, you guys are welcome to the supply of Duralar that I have so that you can do the experiments.  We certainly have enough to do quite a few Lightnings and Esquals.  I will bring it to Shelbyville the next time I get out that way.  Will probably be sometime in early November.
Blue Skies,
Buz
 
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