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Sport Pilot: one step closer

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

I just got my recommendation today from my instructor to take the 

checkride next week. We went up and I did all the maneuvers asked, all 

the various takeoffs and landings, and when he said "take me home" I 

thought I had flunked the pre-checkride checkride....I hadn't. When he 

got out he said "congrats, you just did your recommendation ride in 

20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:01 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Congratulations Lynn!  Will be waiting next week for

feedback from the newest Sport Pilot in the list.



Jose



--- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 

 I just got my recommendation today from my

 instructor to take the 

 checkride next week. We went up and I did all the

 maneuvers asked, all 

 the various takeoffs and landings, and when he said

 "take me home" I 

 thought I had flunked the pre-checkride

 checkride....I hadn't. When he 

 got out he said "congrats, you just did your

 recommendation ride in 

 20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!

 

 Lynn

 Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

 

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List



 Web Forums!

 Admin.



 

 

 

 


	




__________________________________________________

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:20 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:22 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    When he got out he said "congrats, you just did your recommendation 

 ride in 20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!


	


Congrats, cowboy! 

Now, to enlighten the ignorance of an European Kitfoxer, ... what is a 

"recommendation check-ride?"



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:56 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Thanks for the Post, Lynn.



It was a long time ago, but it brought to mind my anticipation for the check 

ride.



Lowell



---

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:48 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Congratulations Lynn....  I've flown in 30+ winds and there is no way I'd

want to do a test in those conditions!



Noel



[quote] --

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

gypsybee(at)copper.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:40 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Hi Michel

 Since no one has answered yet, I'll offer my explanation. When an 

instructor thinks you are ready and should be able to pass an actual 

Check-Ride he will simulate giving the check ride. If you do well he 

will endorse your log book as recommended for that Pilot test. The 

endorsement is written to include the word "recommended" or something 

like that. Thus the term "recommendation ride". There may be errors in 

my answer as I haven't read the latest FAR's.

Rex

Colorado

Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:22 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

>  When he got out he said "congrats, you just did your recommendation 

> ride in 20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!

 Congrats, cowboy! 

 Now, to enlighten the ignorance of an European Kitfoxer, ... what is a 

 "recommendation check-ride?"

 Cheers,

 Michel

 do not archive

-- 

Karla and Rex Hefferan

Gypsy Bee Innkeepers

719-651-5198 or 719-651-9192

Richard Rabbers

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Benton Harbor, MI - USA

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:27 pm Post subject: Re: Sport Pilot: one step closer

 	  Quote: 	
		  Lynn >yeeehawwwwwww!! 	




Congratulations Lynn!

 do not archive

_________________
Richard in SW Michigan
Model 1 / 618 - full-lotus floats (restoration)

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Hi Michel-

My instructor told me when we first started that when he was done with 

me, the checkride would be an anti-climax...that I would not have to 

worry about taking the checkride, because "you WILL pass it...there'll 

be no doubt". To this end, he has had me holding all the turn maneuvers 

within 20 feet tolerance, instead of the FAA-required 100 feet. This 

seemed like impossible at first, but he kept telling me I could do it, 

and just practice and practice doing it to 20 feet. (once in a while I 

can actually do it!) He is an American Airlines pilot, and has very 

little tolerance for sloppy flying. I've even had times I dreaded to go 

up with him because I knew I'd get my butt reamed for doing something 

slightly wrong, but it's made me a better pilot because of that fear.

Back to the question,Michel. Over here, once the flight instructor is 

done teaching you, you have to be recommended to take the checkride 

(also known as the "practical test") via FAA form 8710-11, which has to 

be signed by an instructor who deems you qualified to take that ride 

with a Designated Flight Examiner (DFE). There are also SPE's (Sport 

Pilot Examiners) who give checkrides to only Sport Pilot candidates. So 

the  "recommendation check-ride" is merely my instructors' way of 

making me jump through all the hoops that the SPE will put me through, 

including the clearing turns before every maneuver, (which I tend to 

forget), and doing them to his tighter standards, before he will 

recommend me. Reading between the lines, I think that my instructor 

doesn't want to be embarrassed by having me flunk the checkride, and 

therefore reflect back on his ability to instruct properly.

Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

On Thursday, October 5, 2006, at 05:19  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Oct 5, 2006, at 10:22 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

>  When he got out he said "congrats, you just did your recommendation 

> ride in 20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!

 Congrats, cowboy! 

 Now, to enlighten the ignorance of an European Kitfoxer, ... what is a 

 "recommendation check-ride?"

 Cheers,

 Michel

 do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Lynn:



Just for curiosity, did you make crosswind landings on

your pre-checkride? If so, did you make wheel

landings?



Jose 



--- "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>

 

 Congratulations Lynn!  Will be waiting next week for

 feedback from the newest Sport Pilot in the list.

 

 Jose

 

 --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

 

 > 

 > <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

 > 

 > I just got my recommendation today from my

 > instructor to take the 

 > checkride next week. We went up and I did all the

 > maneuvers asked, all 

 > the various takeoffs and landings, and when he

 said

 > "take me home" I 

 > thought I had flunked the pre-checkride

 > checkride....I hadn't. When he 

 > got out he said "congrats, you just did your

 > recommendation ride in 

 > 20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!

 > 

 > Lynn

 > Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

 > 

 > 

 >

 > browse

 > Subscriptions page,

 > FAQ,

 > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

 >

 > Web Forums!

 >

 >

 > Admin.

 >

 > 

 > 

 > 

 > 

 

 

 __________________________________________________

 



 browse

 Subscriptions page,

 FAQ,

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List



 Web Forums!

 Admin.



 

 

 

 


	




__________________________________________________

fredshiple(at)sbcglobal.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:19 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Glad to hear things are going so well, Lynn, Good luch with the check ride.

Fred



 [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 11:35 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Jose-

I did do a couple of x-wind landings with the instructor aboard, and no 

wheel landings, just 3-pointers, and one tail first with power applied 

to simulate a soft-field landing. His request for a self-criticism 

after that one had me saying that I needed a little more power, and a 

little sooner. Now that you mentioned it, Jose, I recall asking him 

about wheel landings early on during instruction, and he said we'd get 

to that later. Maybe I'd better mention it to him. : )



Also, the winds along the field were not 20-30, more like 10-15, and 

when I took the plane home to put it away, they were at a 45 degree 

angle to the runway, so no problem. At the field where we were doing 

most of the landings, the wind was about 15 at the runway, and about 45 

degrees to it. When we concluded the turn maneuvers, (the last things 

we did), he asked if I wanted him to be with me when I landed it at 

home, (and then I could drive him home), him knowing what a bear my 

field can be at times, and I declined. My field has a row of trees 

parallel to the north of the runway, and that can screw up the wind 

that you are planning your landing on. Also, this year there are beans 

planted on both sides of the runway, so that's a whole lot more 

forgiving than the corn which will be planted next year. But the fun 

will come as that corn starts to grow next year, and I have to grow as 

a pilot right along with it.



Lynn

On Friday, October 6, 2006, at 10:17  AM, Jose M. Toro wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>



 Lynn:



 Just for curiosity, did you make crosswind landings on

 your pre-checkride? If so, did you make wheel

 landings?



 Jose



 --- "Jose M. Toro" <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com> wrote:



> 

> <jose_m_toro(at)yahoo.com>

>

> Congratulations Lynn!  Will be waiting next week for

> feedback from the newest Sport Pilot in the list.

>

> Jose

>

> --- Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:

>

>> 

>> <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>

>>

>> I just got my recommendation today from my

>> instructor to take the

>> checkride next week. We went up and I did all the

>> maneuvers asked, all

>> the various takeoffs and landings, and when he

> said

>> "take me home" I

>> thought I had flunked the pre-checkride

>> checkride....I hadn't. When he

>> got out he said "congrats, you just did your

>> recommendation ride in

>> 20-30 mph winds"  yeeehawwwwwww!!

>>

>> Lynn

>> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

>>

>>

>>

>> browse

>> Subscriptions page,

>> FAQ,

>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

>>

>> Web Forums!

>>

>>

>> Admin.

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

> __________________________________________________

> browse

> Subscriptions page,

> FAQ,

> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List

>

> Web Forums!

> Admin.

>

 __________________________________________________

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

On Oct 6, 2006, at 2:40 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Over here, once the flight instructor is done teaching you, you have 

 to be recommended to take the checkride (also known as the "practical 

 test") via FAA form 8710-11


	


Thank you for your answers, Rex and Lynn.

Just one more question: Are you checked out for one type of aircraft at 

the time? E.g. my Norwegian ultralight license is valid for the 

taildragger Kitfox and nosewheel Rans. Any new check-ride will be 

written in my pilot's logbook, signed by an inspector.



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Fri Oct 06, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

I'm only going to be checked out for the Kitfox, as far as I know. My 

endorsement will be for "fixed wing, tailwheel, greater than 87 knots". 

Based on that, I could fly an Avid, I think, a J-3 Cub, an Aeronca, and 

some others...BUT...I would need to have a checkride in each of those, 

and an endorsement by an instructor in order to fly those planes. This 

is the way I THINK it works. I haven't really looked beyond getting the 

SP Certificate for now...I'm only interested in flying my Kitfox...the 

others can wait. : )

Lynn

On Friday, October 6, 2006, at 04:14  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 On Oct 6, 2006, at 2:40 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

> Over here, once the flight instructor is done teaching you, you have 

> to be recommended to take the checkride (also known as the "practical 

> test") via FAA form 8710-11

 Thank you for your answers, Rex and Lynn.

 Just one more question: Are you checked out for one type of aircraft 

 at the time? E.g. my Norwegian ultralight license is valid for the 

 taildragger Kitfox and nosewheel Rans. Any new check-ride will be 

 written in my pilot's logbook, signed by an inspector.

 Cheers,

 Michel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

MichaelGibbs(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Michel sez:



 	  Quote: 	
		  ...my Norwegian ultralight license is valid for the taildragger 

Kitfox and nosewheel Rans. Any new check-ride will be written in my 

pilot's logbook, signed by an inspector.


	


I'm not that familiar with "Sport Pilot" rules, so I'll let others 

address sport operations, but in the United States no license is 

required to fly "ultralights."  These are generally limited to single 

seat vehicles with a maximum empty weight of 254 pounds, carry less 

than 5 gallons of fuel, and cannot exceed 55 knots.  I believe that 

ultralights are restricted to daytime VFR flights.  According to 

Wikipedia, what most other countries refer to as "ultralights" are 

more closely akin to the new "light sport aircraft" category in the 

United States.



A private pilot license is valid for one or more categories and 

classes, such as, "airplane, single-engine, land," or "airplane, 

multi-engine, seaplane."  For example, I have a private pilot license 

with instrument rating and am permitted to fly all single engine land 

planes with 200 horsepower or less ("high performance").  I can fly 

my Piper Arrow because an instructor added a "complex" endorsement to 

my logbook indicating that I am competent with constant-speed props 

and retractable landing gear.  In order to fly tail-draggers, a 

private pilot requires a tail wheel endorsement, which is also a 

logbook entry from an instructor.



And from there it gets more complicated...  



Mike G.

N728KF

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 11:31 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Thank you for your answers, Lynn and Mike.



The situation is different in Europe. First, we don't have a common 

European definition of the utralight class but most countries agree to 

the following:



1) MTOW of 990 Lbs.

2) Maximumo of two seats.

3) wing load less than 4 Lbs / in2

4) stall speed less than 38 MPH



This is for the 3-axis aircraft of the class. Trikes and gyrocopters 

have different minima and maxima.



The class requires a license which is about 75% of the PPL one. 

Meteorology is the same but navigation doesn't require radio navigation 

(VOR, NDB, DME) and we don't need medical aviation as we are not 

allowed to fly with oxygen. On the other hand, we need two-strokes 

engine that our PPL friends don't.



But the big difference is that ultralights (also called, microlights) 

is not controlled by the national aviation authorities but by the 

national air sport ones, just like gliders or sky jumpers or balooners. 

Just like any other form of sport, the responsibility is then left to 

the different clubs. In Norway, at least, you can't fly an utralight 

without being member of a club. The club has instructors, technical 

leaders, etc. Those have to be trained and controlled by the central 

organisation.



Flying under the utralight rule is much simpler than the PPL 

experimental and much cheaper than a GA certified aircraft. However we 

are limited to VFR, day only, and on-top is forbidden as the rule says 

that, with uncertified engines, we have to fly with always a landing 

possibility in sight.



I think the US Sport Pilot license is more like the newly introduced  

EuropeanVLA (Very Light Aircraft) class where the MTOW is increased to 

1,650 Lbs.



What is for sure is that we need to standardise the classes because 

aircraft manufacturers wish to have a global market. Just to 

demonstrate the difference between countries when it come to 

utralights: Norway requires a helmet when flying. Denmark restrict 

altitude to 3,500 ft and Italy ... under 500 ft (!) during week days!



Cheers,

Michel

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Oct 07, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Over here we have (for  Sport Pilot) a minimum of 20 hrs training, 

which is half of that required for a Private Pilot....less training, 

but more restrictions on what you can do.  The medical requirements can 

be met by having a valid State-issued drivers license. Maximum flight 

altitude is 10,000 msl, and the pilot must be able to see the earth at 

all times. Daylight only, VFR, one passenger maximum, no banner towing, 

no flying for hire, no flying in furtherance of a job, no flying of 

aircraft that has a gross weight of over 1320 pounds (or 1440, I think, 

if equipped with floats), single-engine, non-turbocharged, and maybe 

one or two others that I'm forgetting, but these are the major 

restrictions. Over here, the designation of Kitfoxes like yours and 

mine, Michel, is Experimental-Light Sport Aircraft, or E-LSA. I'm still 

confused by the Amateur-built versus Experimental-homebuilt, but I'm 

not gonna lose any sleep over it. : ) As long as I get my "ticket to 

ride", I'll be happy.



Lynn

On Saturday, October 7, 2006, at 03:30  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thank you for your answers, Lynn and Mike.



 The situation is different in Europe. First, we don't have a common 

 European definition of the utralight class but most countries agree to 

 the following:



 1) MTOW of 990 Lbs.

 2) Maximumo of two seats.

 3) wing load less than 4 Lbs / in2

 4) stall speed less than 38 MPH



 This is for the 3-axis aircraft of the class. Trikes and gyrocopters 

 have different minima and maxima.



 The class requires a license which is about 75% of the PPL one. 

 Meteorology is the same but navigation doesn't require radio 

 navigation (VOR, NDB, DME) and we don't need medical aviation as we 

 are not allowed to fly with oxygen. On the other hand, we need 

 two-strokes engine that our PPL friends don't.



 But the big difference is that ultralights (also called, microlights) 

 is not controlled by the national aviation authorities but by the 

 national air sport ones, just like gliders or sky jumpers or 

 balooners. Just like any other form of sport, the responsibility is 

 then left to the different clubs. In Norway, at least, you can't fly 

 an utralight without being member of a club. The club has instructors, 

 technical leaders, etc. Those have to be trained and controlled by the 

 central organisation.



 Flying under the utralight rule is much simpler than the PPL 

 experimental and much cheaper than a GA certified aircraft. However we 

 are limited to VFR, day only, and on-top is forbidden as the rule says 

 that, with uncertified engines, we have to fly with always a landing 

 possibility in sight.



 I think the US Sport Pilot license is more like the newly introduced  

 EuropeanVLA (Very Light Aircraft) class where the MTOW is increased to 

 1,650 Lbs.



 What is for sure is that we need to standardise the classes because 

 aircraft manufacturers wish to have a global market. Just to 

 demonstrate the difference between countries when it come to 

 utralights: Norway requires a helmet when flying. Denmark restrict 

 altitude to 3,500 ft and Italy ... under 500 ft (!) during week days!



 Cheers,

 Michel

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

On Oct 7, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Over here we have (for  Sport Pilot) a minimum of 20 hrs training, 

 which is half of that required for a Private Pilot....less training, 

 but more restrictions on what you can do.


	


Apart from the MTOW, pretty much the same as the European utralight, 

Lynn. Is the Sport Pilot class under the FAA, or another 

administration?



Cheers,

Michel



do not archive

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:37 pm Post subject: Sport Pilot: one step closer

Definitely under the FAA, but the EAA (Experimental Aircraft 

Association) was instrumental in getting it passed.



Lynn

On Sunday, October 8, 2006, at 03:01  PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 On Oct 7, 2006, at 11:04 PM, Lynn Matteson wrote:

> Over here we have (for  Sport Pilot) a minimum of 20 hrs training, 

> which is half of that required for a Private Pilot....less training, 

> but more restrictions on what you can do.



 Apart from the MTOW, pretty much the same as the European utralight, 

 Lynn. Is the Sport Pilot class under the FAA, or another 

 administration?



 Cheers,

 Michel



 do not archive

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

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