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Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)
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Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

If you are anywhere close to a normal glide speed, and the spots are staying 

lined up, you will not land either short or long, you arrive at the spot. 

Perhaps after you figure in the flare and tocuhdown, you might add another 

50 feet or so, but the basic concept remains unchanged, you arrive at the 

intersect point, which is defined by looking at where the point on the 

windscreen intercepts the point on the ground, and neither is moving up or 

down.



By the same token, if you see another aircraft at your altitude, on an 

intersecting course, and it is moving neither forward or back (or right or 

left) relative to your position, you will hit it. Same principle.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

anywhere close to a normal glide speed, >>



Hi there,



I agree with that but with those words you have involved another factor in 

the equation.



My point was that you can keep your eye, a spot on the screen and a spot on 

the ground in line and either get slow and stall or get fast and dive in. If 

you dont believe me you will find that you can draw a straight line at any 

angle from horizontal to vertical and an inexperienced pilot reading Johns 

post could find themselves in trouble.



Sure the system works OK but only if you monitor the speed which of course 

an experienced pilot will do automatically He wasn`t the guy I was worried 

about



Cheers



Pat



do not archive .

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

They only thing for sure is that the Ercoupe  would get there first, but I 

bet that the touchdown spot would be about

 	  Quote: 	
		   the same.>>


	


Hi there,

ask any glider pilot and he will tell you that there are two best gliding 

speeds. One for distance and one for time. Going as far as possible and 

staying airborne for as long as possible are not thesame thing.



Cheers



Pat



do not archive

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

they call it minimum sink the other is called best glide, just like Vx and 

Vy.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:42:10 -0000






They only thing for sure is that the Ercoupe  would get there first, but I 

bet that the touchdown spot would be about

>the same.>>



Hi there,

ask any glider pilot and he will tell you that there are two best gliding 

speeds. One for distance and one for time. Going as far as possible and 

staying airborne for as long as possible are not thesame thing.



Cheers



Pat



do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:53 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

| If you keep that the point on the windshield and the point on the 

ground on

| top of each other, you will touch down at that point. >>

|

| Hi John,

 | seems to me that if you are landing short and try to keep the spot 

on the

| windscreen and the spot on the ground lined up you could end up in a 

stall

| and in contrast if you are landing long you could finish up in a 

steep dive.

 |

| Pat



Hi Pat:



Sorry I confused you.  My error.



Hopefully, no one will be dumb enough to hold the spot on the 

windshield while stalling or on the other hand, diving into the 

ground.  I was assuming most folks knew to maintain proper airspeed 

while gliding.



Take care, keep up your airspeed, and don't dive into the ground,



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 4:57 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

For what its worth, I cut the engine on my Firestar at 8000 feet msl, 

established a speed of 45 mph, glided 6 miles to camp. Repeated the same 

exercise using a GPS for both only this time I set the speed for 50, ended 

up the same place within a 100 feet. The ground level was 3990, (Alvord 

Desert)

Larry

do not archive

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

OK, according to my calcy-lator, that works out to just under 8:1.  And that 

at a pretty good altitude.  Pretty good - much better than I expected. 

Lar.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

David Lucas

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 79
Location: Europe. based Amsterdam NL

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 8:16 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

 	  Quote: 	
		  Boeing 737 has a fairly good glide ratio 	




There used to be a 'rule of thumb' for the 737 so called  'Double Hush' approach;

    Range; Twice your Altitude

    Time;   Half your Altitude

So, from 30,000 ft; Range about 60 nm, Time about 15 minutes.

That gives a glide ratio of about 12:1, but, like you say, not exactly the best type for an off airport landing !!!



In my current Turbo Prop type, weight and therefore inertia makes a considerable difference in the profile (at idle thrust) with a lightly loaded aircraft going down considerable faster than if your heavy. 



FYI 



David



Do not Archieve.

jim

Joined: 03 Nov 2006
Posts: 107
Location: N. Idaho

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Glide ratio = Lift/Drag

Glide ratio at best glide speed is (Lift/Drag)max, or L/D max.



Kolbs (and all ultralights) have fairly high drag for their size.  The amount of lift will be = to the weight, which for an UL is not much while flying (500 to 800# gross weight).



Thus we have a (small number)/(big number), which yields a small number, i.e., poor glide ratio.



Jets have a good glide ratio because they are very low drag (no struts, small thin asymmetrical wing, retractible gear, etc.) and high lift.  They are high lift because they fly fast and lift goes up as the square of speed.  Best glide on the A4 Skyhawk is 320 Knots.  You have a great L/D max, but your rate of descent is 2000 fpm with the gear up.  Put the gear down, drop the flaps, and the ROD would probably drop to 6000 fpm.

_________________
Jim
N. Idaho

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

they call it minimum sink the other is called best glide,>>



Hi Dave.



indeed they do. Its about 30 years or more since I flew a sailplane last and 

just couldn`t remember the terms.  I look at the picture on my den wall now 

and there is me in this sleek  19 metre span , shiny fibreglass bird, water 

tanks, poitive and negative flaps, retractable wheel, long glass nose with 

me almost laying on my back to fly it and  I think. Good Grief did I really 

fly that.



Heigh Ho. Tempus fugit!



Cheers



Pat



do not archive

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gliders might just be the best looking plane there is. I like flying them 

too. I go several times a year.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:08:28 -0000

they call it minimum sink the other is called best glide,>>

Hi Dave.

indeed they do. Its about 30 years or more since I flew a sailplane last 

and just couldn`t remember the terms.  I look at the picture on my den wall 

now and there is me in this sleek  19 metre span , shiny fibreglass bird, 

water tanks, poitive and negative flaps, retractable wheel, long glass nose 

with me almost laying on my back to fly it and  I think. Good Grief did I 

really fly that.

Heigh Ho. Tempus fugit!

Cheers

Pat

do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:30 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

"David Key" <dhkey(at)msn.com>

|

| Gliders might just be the best looking plane there is. I like flying 

them

| too. I go several times a year.

David:



Maybe as a lawn ornament.



I fly the best looking plane there is, a Kolb mkIII.



My mkIII is also self launching, gives me the option of when and where 

I want to land, and allows me to go-around if I screw up my landing. 

All the while being mighty purty!!!



Take care,



john h

mkIII, purty, 1 each.

mkIII pilot is purty also.



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

bill_joe(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:56 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Well said John......hehe

   

    Do not archive

---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:11 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Fellow Kolbers take pity on this guy.  Having flown too close to the sun

he now suffers from radiation damage.



anonymous bb   do not archive

On 10, Nov 2006, at 5:29 PM, John Hauck wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

  "David Key" <dhkey(at)msn.com>

 |

 | Gliders might just be the best looking plane there is. I like flying

 them

 | too. I go several times a year.

 David:



 Maybe as a lawn ornament.



 I fly the best looking plane there is, a Kolb mkIII.



 My mkIII is also self launching, gives me the option of when and where

 I want to land, and allows me to go-around if I screw up my landing.

 All the while being mighty purty!!!



 Take care,



 john h

 mkIII, purty, 1 each.

 mkIII pilot is purty also.



 DO NOT ARCHIVE

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net>



   Having flown too close to the sun

| he now suffers from radiation damage.

 



BB:



Naw!



Got a good tan though.



Springlike weather at hauck's holler, alabama.



john h

mkIII (2,583.5 hours)

912ULS (0.0 hours)

Warp Drive (0.0 hours)

Pilot (well-worn)



DO NOT ARCHIVE

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Sorry, I didn't mean to send that to the group!!

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:58 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Here is a technical question.  I love my Mark III Classic.  BUT, it is

noisy.  I use a Geo Metro engine which is great, but still noisy.  I

have heard that if one cuts a slot in the after part of the exhaust, it

will be quieter.  I now get 270 lbs of thrust at 5000 ft density

altitude which is about 325 lbs at sea level.  I will be trying this

slot soon along with a thrust test to see if there is a difference in

noise and in thrust.  Has anyone ever tried this on a four cycle engine?

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

My experience in sailplanes is limited.  The Grob 103 is slick and easy

to fly and stays up with a real good glide ratio.  The Schwitzer 2-33 is

a dog, but fun to fly.  The most fun and easiest to fly was a PW-3 which

has a glide ratio about in the middle of the Grob and the dog..  But,

all of them required some altutude to operate in and so the beauty of

low level flight is lost.  I love my Kolb except for the noise.  I am

thinking of building a flying trailer and putting the engine back there.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

If you can access Tony Bingelis' book Firewall Forward, it has some good 

ideas in it. It is too late right now, I will email you some scans off list 

tomorrow.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 1:28 am Post subject: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

I put some Dynamat Extreem sound barrier on the fuse between the ailieron 

push pull tubes. Worked well. Another option I tested is to hang it from the 

lexan piece that sits behind you. I can send photos if you like contact me 

off list.

[quote]From: "Richard Pike" <richard(at)bcchapel.org>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: Kolb Glide Ratio (UNCLASSIFIED)

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 23:48:13 -0500






If you can access Tony Bingelis' book Firewall Forward, it has some good 

ideas in it. It is too late right now, I will email you some scans off list 

tomorrow.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

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