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Kits and Family

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mgeans(at)provide.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: Kits and Family

All,



I don't know if this subject has come up but here goes.  



My wife (if we're allowed to bring them up in the list) was

interestingly peering over my shoulder when her rubber

stamping chat room threads turned to ugly divorces, single

moms, the coming holidays and the wickedness of the male

species.  She said that my RV-10 list had to be less

depressing than hers as she and I are very happily married.

She did bring up a good point.  Has there ever been a

string about the affects of such a project on the family?

In the year+ of lurking I had to admit that I had not.  

Building a plane is a huge family commitment and takes

hundreds/thousands of hours from family.  



I am 35 married and our latest child came a month ago which

makes 2 under 2 years old.  I'm leaning toward building but

am currently in the midst of a career change that will

better allow me funding to build where my position I'm

exiting would have taken some time.  I still have the

build/buy question in my head though.  We may expand to 3

kids which will make the -10 difficult and my flop to the

Murphy line to get 4+2 seating from their recently released

Yukon which shares the Moose fuselage (thus seating) with

different powerplant and increased wing sq/ft.  Does anyone

have a larger family than the -10 can hold.  (Deems here's

where your input would equal E.F. Hutton's back in the day)



We would be interested in responses on affects on family

and maybe what was done to incorporate the building process

into family life/involvement.  

I would also like anyone who is on the other side of the

build/buy decision to add thier $.02.



As an exiting business owner working ~65 hrs/wk it seems

difficult to fit in a kit.  But my career change hopefully

will afford me more time as it will money.  



Just fishing here; if anyone has or knows of someone who

has expirience with international employment and what one

should be wary of when approaching such an opportunty I

would be very interested in some offline dialog. 



Thank you,



Matt Geans

Builder Wanna-be

john.erickson(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:34 am Post subject: Kits and Family

Matt,



I'm in the military and have been working 70+ hour weeks for the 3 years

I've been building.  Breaks have included the normal deployments,etc. I also

have two young kids to throw in the mix.  Here's my take on building, family

life, and long work hours... 



First, RV-10 versus big family.  Several guys have made the rear seat into a

bench that easily fits 3 kids. More than that and you'd have trouble.



Second, finishing a kit.  I completely disagree that long hours makes

finishing a kit difficult. Will guys like us compete with some of the early

builders in completion time?  Heck no (Randy/Tim/Jesse/etc, I hate you

guys...  ) I think it really boils down to whether you enjoy building.

If you do, put in the 1 or 2 hours you have available each week. You may or

may not have large numbers of hours available on weekends to build depending

on family needs. I originally planned to be flying in 2 years. 3 years

later, I'm finishing up my wings. Eventually I'll run out of parts and have

a flying airplane, even if I only get a couple hours a week in the shop. But

I'll still have a happy family at the end.  I think where we get in trouble

is when we spend time in the shop at the EXPENSE of our families... I may be

violating a man-law here, but I've found the best way to keep my family

supportive of the build (I'm not blessed with a wife that likes spending ANY

time in the shop) is to LISTEN to them. They'll let you know when daddy's

not doing what they think he should be... Bottomline, don't set a deadline

and even the busiest guy can finish a kit. (also, as soon as I let my 2-year

goal go away, building became a fun hobby again instead of a second job...)



Just my $0.02 worth... If you want to build, buy the empennage kit and give

it a shot... I did and have never regretted it (even when watching the other

Las Vegas builders planes taking shape while mine SSLLOOWWLLYY get's

assembled...



John

#40208 Wings (still)



--

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: Kits and Family

Matt, I'm building alone and have no age appropriate kids to this discussion

(mine are in their 20's), but, man, I'd let things settle for a bit if

you're moving to a new job, etc.  You also might find a "good" deal on a

Bonanza 36 or even a Cherokee 6, if you want to haul all the little ones and

get to flying.  The commitment and time of the RV-10 with family is best

answered by such dynamos as Tim Olson and others.  I just know that it is

huge and should not come before family and job.  Several builders have had

their kids helping, but sounds as if yours are not of that age, yet.  The

wife needs to be extremely supportive and enthusiastic, because it is a long

journey.  As for the Murphy, if you think these 10's take time......... 



John Jessen

  #40328



Do not archive



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: Kits and Family

There have been a lower than statistical rate of divorces within the

RV-10 Group.  James McClow excluded.  Only three builders have died and

not from the kit process. One only has to look at pictures of OSH or the

VANS picnic and see families like the Olsons' to know that inclusion of

the family is a smart and efficient development technique for acceptance

of the final product. Read Dan Checkoway's post on the value of wives

and their inclusion. http://www.rvproject.com/wife.html 



Ever seen how often Tim's daughters are smiling or asleep.

http://www.myrv10.com/N104CD/flights/20060226/index.html 



Being 57, grey haired, kids are now adults, I do not qualify for

consideration.  The journey should be shared.  Developing Airshows in

the 80's and 90's created a phenomena called AIDS (Airshow Induced

Divorce Syndrome).  Don't go there.



Enjoy your 30s and 40s, get the family involved.  Talk to Tim.



John Cox

#600



--

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:59 am Post subject: Kits and Family

The problem here is dealing with rubber stampers....aviation enthusiasts are much easier to get along with than rubber stampers...  



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:22 am Post subject: Kits and Family

I have often felt this is a subject that does not get the appropriate

amount of attention. My wife would be happy to discuss this with yours

on how we approached this. We have two kids and made the decision

several years ago to build, first a 7 then switched to a 10, once she

realized how much fun flying was. It is definitively a family

commitment, as it takes time away from them, and you have to sell the

benefits of it. My kids have both been actively involved, and they love

it. We tell them they have to build sweat equity, i.e. work for flight

time, it really gets them excited, in addition for each structure they

work on they get to sign it before we close it up, for example they both

got to sign the inside of the HS skins. If everything goes alright

nobody will ever see it, but if an eventual owner opens it up, he/she

will get to see all 4 of my families signatures and the date and age

they worked on it. There is always an argument about who gets to work

with Dad for the magic signing. They both love to cleco, drill and

measure. We have finally gotten to the stage we can sit and make noises,

and we all take turns as PIC. Next month we should be able to apply

power to the panel and that is when it will really start to be fun.

The project has been a point of pride for all of us, everyone in the

neighborhood stops by to see progress, because after all we are the

crazy people building a plane in our garage and they think it will never

fly! We tell them soon. All of the friends of the kids come by and take

a look, they all want to fly in it once it is done. It is surprising the

difference between kids and adults, kids want to, and the adults are

leary...oh well. The boyscouts have been by, and are even talking about

earning their aviation badge, it has gotten them all excited about

flying.

My wife is my riveting partner and the person who supports me most in

the build. It takes a real commitment on both parts, as she has to

shoulder the kids responsibility when I am working in the garage. Her

main statement though is that with the plane she knows exactly where I

am at during the evenings, and she can always take two steps and visit.

She has learned to flush rivet better than I can, giving a half tap when

needed to set the rivet properly. She also gave up her manicure because

it made it difficult to pick up the AN426AD3-3.5 rivets. She said the

trade is that she gets to test the aft CG limit when we go visit Tim

(read Mall of America!). 

With that being said it is a big commitment, but one that is easily

integrated into the family. If you do not take the time to sell it and

get the family excited about it, it will make it difficult at best, and

a painful divorce at worst. I think all it takes to finish is

perseverance and the support of your family because they want to see you

succeed. 

No matter how full you feel your schedule is, you can shift things and

make it work, all it takes (in my case) is a can do attitude and the

support of a great spouse!

Just my musing's on a boring Monday

Dan

40269

--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Kits and Family

You know, the hillarious thing is that you've already got

3 replies from guys name "John". 



As far as my opinion goes, I'd have to agree with John Jessen,

as he said it well.  The fact that you have plans to have 3

children would really push me to wait and avoid the RV-10.

Wouldn't you feel awful bad when, shortly after you finally

finish your -10, you realize you'll need more seats?  Sure

you can build a bench seat, as was suggested, but how long is

that going to last.  My kids can't sit in a suburban on each

side of the truck without smacking eachother into a fight

after a while. They do OK in the -10, but they *do* get upset

when I pack a cooler of water/food/video camera at their feet.

(read "KIDS NEED SPACE TOO")  So sure, you'd have a couple of

years of family trips maybe, after spending a couple or few

years building.  But then you'd come to the heartbreaking

day when you realize you just don't have the plane that meets

your mission, and you need more.  And funny but there aren't

many good 6 place kits that you could easily build for the

mission either...esp. none that compare to the -10 for ease

of building (as someone else already commented).



Now, I can't suggest that you keep your family to a size

that fits in the RV-10, as I got spanked by another lister

when I mentioned that long ago. (right J.S.  )   But,

if you're going to put 3 kids in the equation, and you seek

the lifestyle you read about on my site, then you're looking

at the wrong plane here, so you may want to look further

at other planes.  (Blasphemy, I know)   In fact, you could

right now buy a nice Sundowner/Sierra (like I started the

family in), and enjoy some shorter family trips, and then

when you finally don't fit in there, upsize to a Cherokee 6

or something, and you'd come out probably way ahead from a

dollars perspective too....something that you'll need plenty

of, esp. when you have kids. (I know, because we had

pretty *cheap* daycare but it still cost us over $12,000/yr

until they were all into Kindergarden).



I know that's not on the encouraging side, and certainly

your aviation pursuits can still be accomplished, but I

recommend caution at the exact stage your in, because there

are way too many variables between job/kids/plane choice,

and cashflow at that stage, and it's probably best to get

a couple of them pinned down solid so you have a better

matrix to plan around.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

mgeans(at)provide.net wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 All,

 

 I don't know if this subject has come up but here goes.  

 

 My wife (if we're allowed to bring them up in the list) was

 interestingly peering over my shoulder when her rubber

 stamping chat room threads turned to ugly divorces, single

 moms, the coming holidays and the wickedness of the male

 species.  She said that my RV-10 list had to be less

 depressing than hers as she and I are very happily married.

 

 

 She did bring up a good point.  Has there ever been a

 string about the affects of such a project on the family?

 In the year+ of lurking I had to admit that I had not.  

 Building a plane is a huge family commitment and takes

 hundreds/thousands of hours from family.  

 

 I am 35 married and our latest child came a month ago which

 makes 2 under 2 years old.  I'm leaning toward building but

 am currently in the midst of a career change that will

 better allow me funding to build where my position I'm

 exiting would have taken some time.  I still have the

 build/buy question in my head though.  We may expand to 3

 kids which will make the -10 difficult and my flop to the

 Murphy line to get 4+2 seating from their recently released

 Yukon which shares the Moose fuselage (thus seating) with

 different powerplant and increased wing sq/ft.  Does anyone

 have a larger family than the -10 can hold.  (Deems here's

 where your input would equal E.F. Hutton's back in the day)

 

 We would be interested in responses on affects on family

 and maybe what was done to incorporate the building process

 into family life/involvement.  

 I would also like anyone who is on the other side of the

 build/buy decision to add thier $.02.

 

 As an exiting business owner working ~65 hrs/wk it seems

 difficult to fit in a kit.  But my career change hopefully

 will afford me more time as it will money.  

 

 Just fishing here; if anyone has or knows of someone who

 has expirience with international employment and what one

 should be wary of when approaching such an opportunty I

 would be very interested in some offline dialog. 

 

 Thank you,

 

 Matt Geans

 Builder Wanna-be

Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

Matt:



As one of few females on this list, I'd like to give my input.  My dad

started building his first airplane when I was only 8.  Of course that

was only about 12 years ago !!  He had four kids, a wife who worked

full-time and a demanding job as a corporate pilot at the time.  Some of

my fondest memories of my childhood revolve around spending

nights/weekends in the garage and at the airport with my dad.  Not only

did it foster my love of aviation, but I can also identify tools!  Give

it a go.



Rhonda Barrett-Bewley

Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.

Tulsa, OK

www.barrettprecisionengines.com 



do not archive

--

Todd.Stovall(at)pentagon.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:56 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

Matt,

I share similar sentiments with the others that have responded.  We're a family of 4 and my kids are little, 6 & 9.  They are all supportive of the project -- so far.  My wife has helped when requested, but it has been minimal as to this point I've only had one instance where I needed another pair of hands and that was the rudder close out.  I'm in the middle of the HS so I know they days are coming and my wife is ready to help on request.  My kids, have shown almost no interest in the build (although lots in flying the finished product), but I'm hoping that will change once the airframe starts taking shape.  I'm reluctant to force them into mandatory involvement lest I alienate them completely.  I figure they'll get involved when they're ready.



The way we approached this project from the beginning was that this was not going to be an overnight project so there was no rush.  I'm SB all the way and have been trying just to keep up a steady pace -- the old adage of trying to do something every day, even if it's just deburring a few holes.  My bargain with the family was to not become missing in action down in the basement every waking moment I'm not at work.  When I get home at night, a sit-down dinner with all hands followed by kid's homework are always checklist items 1 & 2. I'll try to then go down and putting an hour or two before knocking off to come up and put the kids to bed and spend some time with my frau. On the weekends, I devote at least a full day to family activities (we just moved to the DC area in July so lots to see).  On the other day, I try to put in a good 5-6 hr stretch building.  Using this framework, I've completed the VS and rudder in a month and a half since the kit arrived (about 60 hrs build time).  I'm not breaking any speed records, but I'm making progress and keeping the family happy at the same time.



Funny thing is I convinced the wife on going ahead with the project with the logic that the longer we put it off, the longer it would be before we had our plane, if ever.  A week after the kit got here I got word that I'm off to Iraq for 6-months with 2 months of training on top of that prior to deploying.  The race is now on to get the empacone finished before I deploy in January.  No big deal if I don't, but I'd sure love to have it done so that I can start on the wings in the Fall of next year.



So, I guess what I trying to say is don't bite off more than you can chew and don't try to force the issue.  I think the safe bet is to just ensure you and the family are all on the same sheet of music with regards to your time and their money.



Todd

40631



 

Do Not Archive

mgeans(at)provide.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

Rhonda,



Thank you for your input.  It is this type of expirience

that I would like to have with my kids too. 



My admiration for your family's company - the quality and

attention to detail that you put into your product is a

credit to all of us that seek comfort in a mechanical

device that will haul ourselves above the earth.  Congrats

on your recent writeup in Kitplanes and your addition to

Marc's Sportsman.



Matt Geans

Builder Wanna-be

Do not archive



On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:24:11 -0600

 "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> wrote:

[quote] 

 <Rhonda(at)BPAENGINES.com>

 

 Matt:

 

 As one of few females on this list, I'd like to give my

 input.  My dad

 started building his first airplane when I was only 8.

  Of course that

 was only about 12 years ago !!  He had four kids, a

 wife who worked

 full-time and a demanding job as a corporate pilot at the

 time.  Some of

 my fondest memories of my childhood revolve around

 spending

 nights/weekends in the garage and at the airport with my

 dad.  Not only

 did it foster my love of aviation, but I can also

 identify tools!  Give

 it a go.

 

 Rhonda Barrett-Bewley

 Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.

 Tulsa, OK

 www.barrettprecisionengines.com 

 

 do not archive

 --

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:10 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

Dan Checkoway has a nice page on his site about fitting in the wife, family, 

and work.  It's a fun read.



Jeff

---

zackrv8

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 133

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: Kits and Family

But,

if you're going to put 3 kids in the equation, and you seek

the lifestyle you read about on my site, then you're looking

at the wrong plane here, so you may want to look further

at other planes. 



maybe not Tim............See my letter to Ken Kruger below and his response.



Zack





> Ok guys..... 

> 

> I'm having a ball building this RV10 especially after building an RV8 and 

> flying it for over 6 years and 1000 hours. I can't wait to finish the 10 

> but I am already thinking about a bigger plane! 

> 

> After cruising through several aviation magazines, I thought it would be 

> useful to have a 6 place plane that could transform into a heavy hauler 

> /sleeping quarters by removing the rear seats if needed. 

> 

> Any interest in this idea? Maybe you could stretch the 10 a little? I 

> certainly would buy one if you produced it! 

> 

> Joe "Zack" Czachorowski 

> RV8 

> RV10 (half way there)



_________________

RV8 #80125 

RV10 # 40512 



Hi Joe,

You are not the first to make this suggestion...are you surprised? As 

the cost, time, and hassel factor of flying airlines goes up and up while 

the airlines' customer service goes down and down, there may be an 

emerging market for a six seat RV-10.



Thanks for your thoughts! So long for now,



Ken Krueger, Engineer

Van's Aircraft

_________________
RV8 #80125
RV10 # 40512

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:41 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

You know stretching the -10 may not be a bad idea. Increasing the moment would help the flare, move the CG back a few inches and alleviate  the bag of lead in the back seat.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

HA!! I can only imagine how long it will be until one of the RV-10 

builers.... HECK, maybe even one of the CURRENT builders, decides

to stretch the nose and tail a bit and throw in one more row of

seats.  Having seen photos of the 4-seat RV-6 before, I have no

doubt that it'll happen.  I think it would be a while before

Van's would go that route though. They seem hesitant enough to

push the insurance liability thing with 4 seats.  If they did

though, that would certainly be the plane!



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

zackrv8 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 But,

 if you're going to put 3 kids in the equation, and you seek

 the lifestyle you read about on my site, then you're looking

 at the wrong plane here, so you may want to look further

 at other planes. 

 

 

 

 maybe not Tim............See my letter to Ken Kruger below and his response.

 

 Zack

 

 

 

 

 Hi Joe,

 You are not the first to make this suggestion...are you surprised? As 

 the cost, time, and hassel factor of flying airlines goes up and up while 

 the airlines' customer service goes down and down, there may be an 

 emerging market for a six seat RV-10.

 

 Thanks for your thoughts! So long for now,

 

 Ken Krueger, Engineer

 Van's Aircraft

 

 --------

 RV8 #80125 

 RV10 # 40512

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=74332#74332

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Kits and Family

You've had a lot of good responses and I agree with all of them.  I will add that I changed positions with my current employer not too long after I started on my tailkit.  My new position has dramatically more travel, and with family changes (kids transitioning to adults, grandchild, etc), I find that I don't have anywhere close to the amount of time that I used to on the kit.  



As others have mentioned, family and employment must come first.  This is a major time commitment (1600-2200 hours) so you can do the math for yourself.  Problem comes when you don't align your expectations with reality.



Assuming the RV-10 is the best fit for your mission profile, just get a shovel and start moving the mountain.



Bob #40105

90% done...

neilcolliver(at)maxnet.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

As the wife of a man about to embark on building a '10' and a mother of 

5 small children, i thought i wound put my 10 cents in for what it's 

worth!

I would like to point out that i have one amazing husband who on the 

decision of learning to fly wanted me beside him learning too. So we 

are now a 2 pilot family as well. I don't really know what we will do 

when the bench seat gets too small but then i guess we will cross that 

bridge when we get there. Buy a matching pair?!

I hope the husband is reading that bit!

we looked at other options but still came back to the 10. But then 

runway had a lot to do with it. i guess each situation is different. I 

have to trust that Neil has made the right decision as i am still up to 

the eyeballs in nappies and schoolwork rather than flying at the 

moment. I would like to be much more involved in the building than I 

will be , just because of my responsibilities. But just as the children 

were right their beside us while we learnt to fly ( They knew radio 

calls and runway directions better than most!), they will be right 

there watching each stage. I wouldn't like to say how involved they 

will be allowed to get, but they will be there. And they will be  the 

better for it. I have other projects ( quilting, stamping, etc) to keep 

me busy in the evenings so i hope i am well prepared to go through it 

again!

And at the end of the day the shed is  only 20m away so I can potter 

over and provide some light relief.

Life is too short not to live your dreams.

We have built a micro-light before and we more than survived, but this 

is a much bigger project and I know how optimistic my Neil can be on 

time scale (we have lived in many a half built house) , so I am 

preparing myself for a long time. But tis only for  a season. But I 

could never stand in his way . I think most men like to have their 

woman there supporting them and believing in them, even if it is in the 

small ways. We can't always be right there beside them but we can let 

them know that we are interested and we can listen (even if the techno 

stuff goes over the head!!).

Maybe this is more for wives. But i agree with Rhonda,> My father never 

got to learn to fly but was in the aviation business all his life and 

that fostered a love of aviation in me. I have lived out his dreams. 

Neil's interest in flying only came about after we got to NZ about 3.5 

yrs ago, and has been truly bitten by the bug, but then God had 

provided the right wife for him!



   I do remember getting very frustrated (when building the Savannah) at 

weekend building, as I felt that I had been with children all week and 

needed some time out. This was far worse than the evenings. But then I 

was pregnant with no 4 at the time and the eldest was 5! and I was 

tired with a capital T.

Seeing the end project though .... and enjoying it.......!  i guess 

it's the closest you guys get to knowing what child birth is like!!



Neil has always had his priorities right as well . He will and has 

dropped everything for us when needed.



Sarah Colliver

On 14 Nov 2006, at 9:24, Rhonda Bewley wrote:



[quote] 

 <Rhonda(at)BPAENGINES.com>



 Matt:



 As one of few females on this list, I'd like to give my input.  My dad

 started building his first airplane when I was only 8.  Of course that

 was only about 12 years ago !!  He had four kids, a wife who worked

 full-time and a demanding job as a corporate pilot at the time.  Some 

 of

 my fondest memories of my childhood revolve around spending

 nights/weekends in the garage and at the airport with my dad.  Not only

 did it foster my love of aviation, but I can also identify tools!  Give

 it a go.



 Rhonda Barrett-Bewley

 Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.

 Tulsa, OK

 www.barrettprecisionengines.com



 do not archive

 --

bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:00 pm Post subject: Kits and Family

Bob



So you are at the hated 90/90 position.  So many of us are.  When you coming

to Vegas next, haven't seen you since Huntsville.



Bob K

90/90



--

bcondrey

Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: Kits and Family

Bob,

 

Not sure when I'll be out there next - I'd love to get together you you, Rick and the others though.  So, does your 90% imply that you've now got the engine in place?  Any updates for the group on what they'll have to go through for a rotary engine install?

 

Bob



	--

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:45 am Post subject: Kits and Family

Careful Bob,

The sound you hear is salt flying into the Mazda wounds on Bob's RV-10.



He is really about 60 with 140 to go  



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

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