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DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:36 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
[quote][b]
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rene(at)felker.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:56 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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You can check the archives and see if this is in there. But if I remember right Jesse Saint stood his up on end and had someone stand up in the middle.
I had mine on a piece of carpet and then filled the bottom with foam and pillows and crawled on in. My then two year kept wanting to come in and play, but other than that it was not that bad.
Rene' Felker
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
To: matronics
Subject: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
Quote: | www.aeroelectric.com | 0123456789012345
[quote][b]
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jim(at)CombsFive.Com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:12 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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I filled in the areas between the bulkheads with polyurethane foam cut to fit, then laid a second layer on top. My 200 lb neighbor laid on his back and bucked the rivets.
Took about an hour but we had no problems at all.
Jim C
N312F
Do Not Archive
============================================================
From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Date: 2006/12/18 Mon AM 08:34:58 EST
To: "matronics" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
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LloydDR(at)wernerco.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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I also did it this way, carpet on the floor and pillows inside. Worked well, we had the offset back rivet from Avery, and the barbell bucking bar from them as well.
Dan
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rene Felker
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:54 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: tailcone rivets
You can check the archives and see if this is in there. But if I remember right Jesse Saint stood his up on end and had someone stand up in the middle.
I had mine on a piece of carpet and then filled the bottom with foam and pillows and crawled on in. My then two year kept wanting to come in and play, but other than that it was not that bad.
Rene' Felker
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
To: matronics
Subject: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
Quote: | www.aeroelectric.com | 0123456789012345
6 [quote][b]
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CJohnston(at)popsound.com Guest
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com Guest
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CJohnston(at)popsound.com Guest
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:15 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the tailcone
on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side or top. Open
hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was able to use the
gun while my partener was on the outside with the bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The flatness
of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting on the saw
horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to get at the
rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get a bad cramp in
your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
Quote: | From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: "matronics" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: tailcone rivets
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around
in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
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jesse(at)itecusa.org Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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This has worked great for us.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 11:40 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: tailcone rivets
Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below –
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
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deej(at)deej.net Guest
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Todd.Stovall(at)pentagon. Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:49 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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All,
After reading all of the posts to this thread, are most folks
backriveting the tailcone skins vs bucking with a flush set, or did I
misunderstand some of the posts? Using the backrivet set with a bucking
bar never occurred to me. Although I'm only on my HS (ready to rivet),
the tailcone is close enough for me to begin thinking about it.
Thanks,
Todd
#40631
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Vern(at)teclabsinc.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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Did pretty much the same. However, I went inside and back riveted with my son on the outside with a large bucking bar. Cleaveland Tool sells a back riveter with a 12” reach.
Vern (#324 fuselage)
Do not archive
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Johnston
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 8:40 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: tailcone rivets
Me same as everyone else. Pillows, blankets, girlfriend. See below –
http://www.perfectlygoodairplane.net/Tailcone/tailconefinish.htm
cj
#40410
fuse
www.perfectlygoodairplane.net
--
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rv10(at)sinkrate.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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I stuffed my petite wife into the padded tailcone for riveting while it was resting on our EAA plans workbench. Don’t worry about climbing in there if the table or surface your tailcone is sitting on is sturdy and fully supported. Just move slow and be careful about putting any weight on the ribs. She bucked all the j-channel and rib rivets. When riveting the longerons to the side skins we switched places and back riveted. That was sure quite a site cause I’m no small guy (6’3” and big!). The rivets came out excellent. If we were to do it again I think we would have back-riveted the j-channel and as much else as possible.
For back riveting w/o using the steel plates we have a rather large bucking bar that weights 5 pounds or so and has a 3” round face that we got on ebay with our rivet gun. We are definitely faster when we can back rivet cause you don’t have to be as paranoid about unintended dimples in the skins.
Right now we are riveting the top skins to the ribs and spars. I made a 12” back rivet set from a longer set that came with our gun from ebay. Would have been much better to just buy one but this got us riveting over the weekend instead of waiting for it to show up after ordering. I definitely recommend the method of using a large bucking bar on the machine head side flush with the skin and back-riveting wherever possible. Specially for highly visible areas like the tailcone and wing top skins.
Ben Westfall
#40579 Wing Top Skins
Portland, OR
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2006 6:35 AM
To: matronics
Subject: tailcone rivets
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
Quote: | www.aeroelectric.com |
Quote: | www.buildersbooks.comwww.kitlog.com |
Quote: | www.homebuilthelp.com | 012345678901234567890123456789012345678
[quote][b]
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:40 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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Back rivetting everything except where it is too small to get yourself in
there...and that would be for and aft of the second to last bulkhead, the
one the HS sit on.
The Use the big elevator bucking bar and lay it down on the rivets, about
ten at a time.
John G.
[quote]From: "Stovall Todd Lt Col AF/A4RX" <Todd.Stovall(at)pentagon.af.mil>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RE: tailcone rivets
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 13:45:43 -0500
<Todd.Stovall(at)pentagon.af.mil>
All,
After reading all of the posts to this thread, are most folks
backriveting the tailcone skins vs bucking with a flush set, or did I
misunderstand some of the posts? Using the backrivet set with a bucking
bar never occurred to me. Although I'm only on my HS (ready to rivet),
the tailcone is close enough for me to begin thinking about it.
Thanks,
Todd
#40631
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jesse(at)itecusa.org Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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I recommend back riveting as much as you possibly can. It avoids scuffs on
the outside metal and it is much easier to get a perfect shop head.
Do not archive.
Jesse Saint
I-TEC, Inc.
jesse(at)itecusa.org
www.itecusa.org
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694
--
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DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:52 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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I should have asked this question much sooner, thanks for the replies!
Dave Leikam
40496
do not archive
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dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006 Posts: 455 Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:31 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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John,
Shooting from the inside, did you use the back rivet set?
David Maib
#40559
tailcone
On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
<indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>
Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the
side or top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning
in, I was able to use the gun while my partener was on the outside
with the bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by
sitting on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while
standing, to get at the rivets towards the back, take breaks,
otherwise you might get a bad cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
Quote: | From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: "matronics" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: tailcone rivets
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin
tailcone rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about
climbing around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words
from the wiser?
Dave Leikam
40496
|
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_________________ David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL |
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bbreckenridge(at)gmail.co Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 5:24 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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John Jessen recorded how I did mine. I looked on his website, but just couldn't find the pics!
I used a back rivet plate; flipped the cone over on it's top and made sure it was on the plate. Because the cone overhung my table, I could stand in the hole of the missing forward top skin and lean into the cone. To be sure I was flat on the back rivet plate, I used a 1" (or so) round stick-on bubble level laid right next to the rivet I was going to smash. Because it was a little bit of a tight fit between the stringers, I could lean left or right and the cone would rotate until the bubble was centered. I don't recall having to drill out any of the rivets set with this method.
Hopefully, John will pipe in and direct you to his website where this technique is documented.
Bruce Breckenridge
40018 Wings
[quote][b]
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DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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Stand the thing up and stand inside it. Back rivet all but a couple of rivets. My fifteen year old son on the outside with the bar and me on the inside driving rivits.
Finished the cone tonight. Happy:)
Thanks for the tip Jesse.
Dave Leikam
40496
empanage assembly!
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com Guest
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Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:27 pm Post subject: tailcone rivets |
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I should have said, "I never placed my weight inside." The saw horses held
it upside down on the flat spots on the rear where the HS sits and in the
front where the longerons are without the most forward top skin on. Also
lay it on it side, right or left because the sides are flat.
Was on my knees, up inside, like a pup tent, shooting up or out to the side
while the freind was on the outside. Yes, back riveted everything I could.
I got pretty contorted, back, neck and thighs get twisted and lower legs
fell asleep a few times.
I have tried throughout the project to minimize putting any weight on the
parts before complete assembly into a rigid structure. Never want to build
in a warp albeit unlikely with all the indexed dimples and clecoes, but why
risk it. Plus each bulkhead is so flimsy by itself, but once together with
everything else, it's one strong unit.
Make sure you and your helper are on the same rivet!!!!! They cover the
rivet with the plate or bucking bar, on the outside and they say,"Ready"
they you put the back rivet gun tip on the rivet and say" Ready" then they
say, "Go"
Lower the pressure and a quick fire and never fire again, unless you let
them know by going through the same ritual.
The guy that was hunting with Chenny taught me this technique after his
incident. Unlikely that you will have an accident if you follow this plan.
Alcoholic beverages are also not a good thing before hunting, opps, I mean
riveting.
John G.
Quote: | From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: tailcone rivets
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 18:26:12 -0600
John,
Shooting from the inside, did you use the back rivet set?
David Maib
#40559
tailcone
On Dec 18, 2006, at 12:14 PM, John Gonzalez wrote:
Never had to get inside. Used two saw horses and kept flipping the
tailcone on its side while I accessed through the open hole in the side or
top. Open hole is the forward tailcone skin off. Leaning in, I was able
to use the gun while my partener was on the outside with the bucking bar.
Put down a lot of foam to protect your knees from the ground. The
flatness of the tailcone side skins allows all this to happen by sitting
on the saw horses. Becareful when stretching inside while standing, to get
at the rivets towards the back, take breaks, otherwise you might get a bad
cramp in your calves and hamstrings.
John G.
>From: "Dave Leikam" <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "matronics" <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
>Subject: tailcone rivets
>Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:34:58 -0600
>
>Anyone have any good advice as to how to get at the top skin tailcone
>rivets? No one in my family is small. I also worry about climbing
>around in there and bending or denting somthing. Words from the wiser?
>
>Dave Leikam
>40496
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