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Rear spar attach reinforcement

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kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

OK, this is my first post here on Matronics, so please forgive me if I break some cardinal rule.  I tried to make my first part #22003 Rear Spar Attach Reinforcement (for Model 4-1200) and I think I may have shaved off a wee bit too much metal.  I will try to attach a picture of the part so that some of you experts can give me some guidance.  At this point I am thinking that the part may still be used, but will have to be checked at every pre-flight.



Thanks in advance,

Kent

22003.jpg

Description:

Part #22003

Filesize:

301.2 KB

Viewed:

952 Time(s)

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Hi Kent,



--- kentk <kentk25(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   OK, this is my first post here on Matronics, so

 please forgive me if I break some cardinal rule.


	


No problem.  Here we have 1 Pope, 2 cardinals and a

whole lot of sinners.  



I tried to make my first part #22003 Rear Spar Attach

 	  Quote: 	
		   Reinforcement (for Model 4-1200) and I think I may

 have shaved off a wee bit too much metal.  I will

 try to attach a picture of the part so that some of

 you experts can give me some guidance.  At this

 point I am thinking that the part may still be used,

 but will have to be checked at every pre-flight.

 

 Thanks in advance,

 Kent


	


Right or wrong on this part will depend upon what you

have left, of course.  I think I built 1.3 Kitfox's to

cover the "not quite good enough" parts I remade. 

Some are remade just for looks, but if it is critical,

you don't want to be flying wondering if it is good

enough.  Make a new one and be sure.  To me, the rear

attachment falls into the "make sure" category rather

than the preflight check category.



Let's see what others say.



But go ahead and attach a pic, if nothing else than

for practice, and confirmation from all on what they

would do.  We like to discuss stuff here.... 



Kurt S.  S-5



__________________________________________________

kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement

 	  smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho wrote: 	
		  Hi Kent,



--- kentk <kentk25> wrote:

 

 	  Quote: 	
		   OK, this is my first post here on Matronics, so

 please forgive me if I break some cardinal rule.



	


No problem.  Here we have 1 Pope, 2 cardinals and a

whole lot of sinners.  



	




Hah, good one!  At least I wasn't accused of making a bad aircraft pun.



I send my question to the Kitfox company, but last time I asked them for info it took something like 2 weeks to get a reply.  Does anyone know if I can purchase part #22003 (or have a spare for sale)?  If not, I guess will seriously consider those spar inserts from Blueskyaviation.



Thanks again, Kurt for the response and insight.



Kind Regards,

Kent

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

roncarolnikko(at)hotmail.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Kent please hit the attach button and show us the part.  May or may not be a 

problem, but we like to over analyse.  Ron NB Ore

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "kentk" <kentk25(at)yahoo.com>

Reply-To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Date: Fri,  5 Jan 2007 20:33:52 -0800

smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho wrote:

 > Hi Kent,

 >

 > --- kentk  wrote:

 >

 >

 > >  OK, this is my first post here on Matronics, so

 > >  please forgive me if I break some cardinal rule.

 > >

 > >

 >

 > No problem.  Here we have 1 Pope, 2 cardinals and a

 > whole lot of sinners.  

 >

 >

Hah, good one!  At least I wasn't accused of making a bad aircraft pun.

I send my question to the Kitfox company, but last time I asked them for 

info it took something like 2 weeks to get a reply.  Does anyone know if I 

can purchase part #22003 (or have a spare for sale)?  If not, I guess will 

seriously consider those spar inserts from Blueskyaviation.

Thanks again, Kurt for the response and insight.

Kind Regards,

Kent

--------

kentk25[at]yahoo

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85804#85804

_________________________________________________________________

Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered 

by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement

 	  roncarolnikko(at)hotmail. wrote: 	
		  Kent please hit the attach button and show us the part.  May or may not be a 

problem, but we like to over analyse.  Ron NB Ore

	




Is the image not showing up for anyone but me?  If that is the case, here is the link to the photo:



http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=3526



Regards,

Kent

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

rexinator(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Kent,  The link worked  on your 1st post before.  I have included it 

here from your 1st post. 



http://forums.matronics.com//files/22003_764.jpg

They both result in the same image.



 BTW, I can also offer to post an image for those unsure how to do it and when Michel becomes overwhelmed.   

Rex

Colorado





kentk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Is the image not showing up for anyone but me? If that is the case, 

 here is the link to the photo:



http://forums.matronics.com/download.php?id=3526



Regards,

Kent

kitfox(at)ida.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:03 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Hey Kent

I wish I would have used the inserts. They look like a lot better way to do 

it. If not just build some new parts. Spar attach points tend to be 

important.

Good luck

Albert

Bob

Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 89
Location: Damascus, Maryland, USA

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement

It's an important part, not too hard to remake, and someday there will be a "next" owner who may not know to check this on pre-flight.  If your A&P or FAA inspector see an example of workmanship like this, they'll start looking a lot closer, too.  Besides, when it does crack, probably at the second hole, do you want to have to try to get it out once assembled?  Easier to just re-make it now.  Tip for next time: use the file lengthwise along the edges, not across it, and the edge will stay straight.  

Bob

A&P

_________________
Remember that internet advice may only be worth what you pay.

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Thanks for the direct link to the image.  First congratulations on your 

choice of airplane - the best Kitfox ever in my opinion for all the things 

Kitfoxes are designed to do.



My suggestion would be to replace the part.  A taper on a fitting like that 

is designed to spread the forces evenly to the end.  By essentially cutting 

a notch on this one it creates a stress riser which could result in a 

premature failure.



Where are you? Tell us about your project.



Lowell



---

kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 8:31 am Post subject: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement

 	  lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net wrote: 	
		  Thanks for the direct link to the image.  First congratulations on your 

choice of airplane - the best Kitfox ever in my opinion for all the things 

Kitfoxes are designed to do.



My suggestion would be to replace the part.  A taper on a fitting like that 

is designed to spread the forces evenly to the end.  By essentially cutting 

a notch on this one it creates a stress riser which could result in a 

premature failure.



Where are you? Tell us about your project.



Lowell



--- 	




Well, first of all, thank you everyone for the excellent advice.  I really don't want to use any inferior parts on my plane, but was also concerned about availability of replacement parts.



Last year I aquired this KitFox Model 4-1200 from a friend who originally purchased it back in '94.  He had worked on the fuselage, but not much else.  I live in College Station, TX and have an ASEL Private Pilot License.  My flight experience is mostly Cessna 172 and 150s.  I have some low wing hours, but prefer the high wing.  I have zero tail dragger experience.



So, at this point I am focused on building the wings.  The kit did not include the engine nacelle (nor anything FWF for that matter), so I am undecided as to which powerplant to use and which prop arrangement is best.  I am very much in the research phase at this point.



Regards,

Kent

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

Joel

Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Bremerton, WA USA

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:16 am Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Hi Kent,



I used the BlueSky spar inserts on my model 5 and am very pleased with the 

results. I thought that if any one area of the aircraft should be over 

designed the spar attach point was it. My aeronautical engineer son agreed.



Joel

Model 5 912uls



_________________________________________________________________

Dave vs. Carl: The Insignificant Championship Series.  Who will win?

_________________
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs

jdmcbean(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Regarding Spar Attach Reinforcement,

Not to say one way is better then another.. but remember that the aircraft

was load tested and flight tested with these reinforcements.  The

reinforcements didn't fail and to date there has not been an in-flight

structural failure  of a Kitfox..



Fly Safe !!

John & Debra McBean

208.337.5111

www.kitfoxaircraft.com

"It's not how Fast... It's how Fun!"



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

I also bought a IV from Texas, without engine or cowl. I settled on a  

2200 Jabiru engine and Skyfox cowl after doing a lot of engine  

research. I'm very well satisfied with the way mine turned out, and  

its performance, and ease of operation.

Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

On Jan 6, 2007, at 11:31 AM, kentk wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net wrote:

> Thanks for the direct link to the image.  First congratulations on  

> your

> choice of airplane - the best Kitfox ever in my opinion for all  

> the things

> Kitfoxes are designed to do.

>

> My suggestion would be to replace the part.  A taper on a fitting  

> like that

> is designed to spread the forces evenly to the end.  By  

> essentially cutting

> a notch on this one it creates a stress riser which could result in a

> premature failure.

>

> Where are you? Tell us about your project.

>

> Lowell

>

> ---

 Well, first of all, thank you everyone for the excellent advice.  I  

 really don't want to use any inferior parts on my plane, but was  

 also concerned about availability of replacement parts.

 Last year I aquired this KitFox Model 4-1200 from a friend who  

 originally purchased it back in '94.  He had worked on the  

 fuselage, but not much else.  I live in College Station, TX and  

 have an ASEL Private Pilot License.  My flight experience is mostly  

 Cessna 172 and 150s.  I have some low wing hours, but prefer the  

 high wing.  I have zero tail dragger experience.

 So, at this point I am focused on building the wings.  The kit did  

 not include the engine nacelle (nor anything FWF for that matter),  

 so I am undecided as to which powerplant to use and which prop  

 arrangement is best.  I am very much in the research phase at this  

 point.

 Regards,

 Kent

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

kentk

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 25
Location: College Station

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: Re: Rear spar attach reinforcement

 	  Lynn Matteson wrote: 	
		  I also bought a IV from Texas, without engine or cowl. I settled on a  2200 Jabiru engine and Skyfox cowl after doing a lot of engine research. I'm very well satisfied with the way mine turned out, and its performance, and ease of operation.



Lynn

Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200



	




Lynn,



Do you know if anyone has documented the performance of various engines vs. various prop cominations?  It would really be nice to help the homebuilder choose which configuration will most likely suit their aircraft and performance preferences.  I suspect that such an animal does not exist, unless the EAA might have something along those lines.



Regards,

Kent

_________________
Kent Knudsen
College Station, TX
K-IV 1200 / no engine / 25% done

Mdkitfox(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:18 pm Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Kent,

  

 After viewing the picture I would recommend remaking the attach bracket.  While the one you made would 'probably' be okay, why take a chance.   They're cheap parts and easier to do now rather than later.  I used the  'cuff' thinking they would be an improvement, but the original design has  never been an issue.  I have a model V and probably have the original spar  reinforcement pieces, but I recently moved and finding them may take a  while.  If you want them (and I can find them) they're yours, no  charge.  Does anyone know if the Series V(1400 lbs version) part is the  same as the model IV part? 

  

 Rick

Series V Speedster - N39RW

  [quote][b]

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:22 am Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

Kent-



No, I don't know of any such documentation. When I referred to doing  

engine research, I just read a lot about some people having different  

problems with some Rotax's, other engines being too heavy, others too  

low in horsepower, etc. I liked the looks, simplicity, lightness,  

single carb, air-cooling (without additional liquid cooling), etc.,  

of the Jabiru, and went that way. It may not be the high performance  

choice of the field, but it gets me cruising at or near 100 mph, at  

low...3.25-3.5 gph fuel burn.

Michel from Norway, of this group, once posted some documentation  

about a fly-off between a Rotax-powered and a Jabiru-powered  

plane...Michel?



Lynn

On Jan 6, 2007, at 9:10 PM, kentk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Lynn Matteson wrote:

> I also bought a IV from Texas, without engine or cowl. I settled  

> on a  2200 Jabiru engine and Skyfox cowl after doing a lot of  

> engine research. I'm very well satisfied with the way mine turned  

> out, and its performance, and ease of operation.

>

> Lynn

> Kitfox IV Speedster...Jabiru 2200

 Lynn,



 Do you know if anyone has documented the performance of various  

 engines vs. various prop cominations?  It would really be nice to  

 help the homebuilder choose which configuration will most likely  

 suit their aircraft and performance preferences.  I suspect that  

 such an animal does not exist, unless the EAA might have something  

 along those lines.



 Regards,

 Kent



 --------

 kentk25[at]yahoo





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=85957#85957

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:46 am Post subject: Rear spar attach reinforcement

At 06:28 PM 1/5/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I tried to make my first part #22003 Rear Spar Attach Reinforcement (for 

Model 4-1200) and I think I may have shaved off a wee bit too much metal.


	


No question. Replace it. I know it's discouraging but you'll probably make 

many, many parts twice or even three times during the construction of your 

aircraft. Calling it a "kit" was optimistic at best. It's more of an 

"assisted plans-built" aircraft.

Guy Buchanan

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

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