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craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:59 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

I appreciate the information. But what label did you put on the  "enrichment circuit" knob 

  

 -- Craig



   From: owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-zenith-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  crvsecretary(at)aol.com

Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 11:40  AM

To: zenith-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Zenith-List:  Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller

 

 Hello Craig:

  

 Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have a  choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the flow of air  through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel into the airstream  ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED.

  

 It took me a long time to truely understand the Bing CV carb.   Virtually every BMW motorcycle in the "R" boxer twin series uses two of  them.  Aside from starting, idle, and crossover circuits, the heavy  lifting in the Bing CV carb is done with a moveable slide that rises up and down  by responding to VACUUM in the carb throat.  A strong vacuum during WOT  operation pulls the slide up allowing a needle attached to the bottom of the  slide to pull way out of the main jet and that allows a lot of fuel to mix with  the large volume of air going through the carb.  Also, the air moving  through the venturi is at a Constant Velocity (CV carb, remember?) since the  area of the venturi changes with the position of the slide.

  

 However, at high altitudes where the air is thinner the slide does not pull  up as far due to less vacuum, and the needle does not pull out of the main jet  as far.  This is your high-altitude mixture control.

  

 The authority on these carbs is The Bing Doctor and the bible is the Manual  available here:

  

 http://www.bingcarburetor.com/manual.html

  

 Absolutely the final word on Bing.

  

 Tracy Smith

 Naugatuck, CT

 601XL N458XL (reserved)

  

  

  

  

 

--

crvsecretary(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

My BMW is SO old (1979) there is no label on it at all !!  Come to think of it, there was no label installed from the factory!  

    

   And, I agree, the LAST thing I would want from the DAR is a hassle over "Enrich WHAT??"

    

   Thanks for the laugh.

    

   Tracy 

   do not archive 

  

 --

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:58 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hi Tracy,

I've a Subaru with 2 Bings. The enrichment circuit operates much like a 

choke and I use it to start the engine

and get a smooth idle with it until the engine warms.  My EGTs are 

normal until I descend to pattern with half throttle.

The EGTs sometimes climb to set point kicking in the warning, so I pull 

enrichment and the temps drop about 50 degrees immediately.  Not sure 

what causes the higher EGTs save a denser altitude and a lower fuel 

feed, but the enrichment circuit I've labeled "choke" tends to affect 

the engine just like one, throttle open or closed.  It would be curious if

I've got something wrong here, but the engine is performing at its best 

the way it's jetted now.



Larry McFarland - 601HDS at www.macsmachine.com



crvsecretary(at)aol.com wrote:

[quote] Hello Craig:

  

 Not to be picky, but a Bing Constant-Velocity (CV) carb does NOT have 

 a choke - it has an enrichment circuit which does NOT block off the 

 flow of air through the throat, instead, it allows supplimental fuel 

 into the airstream ONLY when the throttle is fully CLOSED.



  

 Absolutely the final word on Bing.

  

 Tracy Smith

 Naugatuck, CT

 601XL N458XL (reserved)

  

  

  

  

  

 --

crvsecretary(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:49 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hello Larry:

    

   I've been reading your posts for a long time and I very much enjoy all that you have contributed to this list.  You are a great asset to all the builders that read this list and I appreciate and applaud all your accomplishments.

    

   I was not clear in my post - when starting the enrichment circuit works only with the throttle plate closed since the volume of air through the carb is so low at cranking RPM.  After the engine starts, the enrichment circuit will continue to add additional fuel to ensure smooth running.  

    

   My first thought on the high EGT's has to do with the position of the slide during decents.  The engine is in a lightly loaded state and there is very little vacuum exposed to the carb slide.  The slide is very far down and the needle is effectively blocking the main jet.  The idle circuit cannot deliver enough fuel to the engine in this state and the engine is now in a very lean condition.  Enriching the mixture kicks your EGTs down in a heartbeat.

    

   Thanks again, Larry for all you contribute.

    

   Regards,

    

   Tracy Smith

    

  

 --

btucke73(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:50 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Craig,



     All I am saying is that his Jab performs the same

as my Corvair, and that we both have not done much to

clean up our planes.  I think the Jab is a better

engine, for those who can afford it.  I am just

pointing out that they do not, in fact, run nitrous or

have afterburner, and IMHO are not capable of pushing

an HDS anywhere near 150 mph at 75% cruise.  



     To this point, the best I have heard is 135 mph

cruise in an XL.  Can anyone do better than that?



VR/



Brandon 

__________________________________________________

4rcsimmons(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 7:27 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

I am curious! How does the Altitude Compensating Carb. function?  

   

Where can I go to understand how it makes the adjustments?  

   

Thanks,  

Rich Simmons  

601 xl  

       [quote][b]

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Respectfully,   What for?   Want to cruise faster, same engine?  buy a Varieze or with a 0200  a Long Eze...



Lets enjoy the flight, once the wheels are off the ground  



Saludos

Gary Gower

Hope to finish my 601XL soon.

Now cruising at 85 - 90 in the 701 912S at 11,500 ft ASL (at) 5100 rpm

Do not archive.



Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> wrote:[quote] --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker 



Craig,



     All I am saying is that his Jab performs the same

as my Corvair, and that we both have not done much to

clean up our planes.  I think the Jab is a better

engine, for those who can afford it.  I am just

pointing out that they do not, in fact, run nitrous or

have afterburner, and IMHO are not capable of pushing

an HDS  [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 4:07 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hi Gary,



 Perhaps you are not aware, but we have a new set of rules for pilots and planes from the FAA in the United States.  For those of us too old and decrepit to want to fight for a "Special Issuance" medical certificate, there is the Sport Pilot restriction which allows us to fly any plane that meets the Light Sport Aircraft limits without a medical certificate.



 The short version of all of this is we can fly a 701 or 601 (most models, possibly not the HDS) without fighting for the medical certificate.  Higher performance planes like a Verieze don't qualify under this new rule.



 The essence of the Sport Pilot restriction is we must limit our flying to VFR day operations.  Personally, I like those limits anyway.   I might go get an instrument rating if I could do it without the medical certificate, but that will have to wait a few years for the FAA to decide they don't like third class medical certificates any more.  That may happen and it may not.



 

 So, there is actually some merit for guys like me to try to squeeze performance out of my Zodiac XL that I just can't use if it comes from a heavier or naturally faster plane.



 Regards,



 Paul

 XL fuselage 

 do not archive



 

 At 12:10 PM 1/11/2007, you wrote:

 [quote]Respectfully,   What for?   Want to cruise faster, same engine?  buy a Varieze or with a 0200  a Long Eze...



 Lets enjoy the flight, once the wheels are off the ground  



 Saludos

 Gary Gower

 Hope to finish my 601XL soon.

 Now cruising at 85 - 90 in the 701 912S at 11,500 ft ASL (at) 5100 rpm

 Do not archive.



 Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

   --> Zenith-List message posted by: Brandon Tucker 



  Craig,



  All I am saying is that his Jab performs the same

  as my Corvair, and that we both have not done much to

  clean up our planes. I think the Jab is a better

  engine, for those who can afford it. I am just

  pointing out that they do not, in fact, run nitrous or

  have afterburner, and IMHO are not capable of pushing

  an HDS 

  	  Quote: 	
		  

[/b] 	
 [b]

purplemoon99(at)bellsouth
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:07 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hello, Gary

  

 I know what you are talking about about getting  that little extra out of your 601XL.  If you are really interested in that,  take a look at the Prince P-Tip.

 You can talk to the owner, Lonnie Prince, who has  the best prop I've ever seen.  Top of the line company and top of the line  owner!  Go to their web site and see what the prop does for climb and  cruise.  Good Luck.   Joe (N101HD)

 [quote]   ---

Gig Giacona

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1416
Location: El Dorado Arkansas USA

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Sensenich Composite Propeller

While I had heard of the Prince P-Tip I hadn't read anything about it until you made this post. After looking at the Aircraft Spruce write up about it it may be a good choice that would give you some of the benefits of an in-flight adjustable prop and still keep you legal as far as the LSA rules are concerned. 



Anybody know what these things cost?

 	  purplemoon99(at)bellsouth wrote: 	
		  Hello, Gary

  

 I know what you are talking about about getting  that little extra out of your 601XL.  If you are really interested in that,  take a look at the Prince P-Tip.

 You can talk to the owner, Lonnie Prince, who has  the best prop I've ever seen.  Top of the line company and top of the line  owner!  Go to their web site and see what the prop does for climb and  cruise.  Good Luck.   Joe (N101HD)

_________________
W.R. "Gig" Giacona
601XL Under Construction
See my progress at www.peoamerica.net/N601WR

planecrazydld(at)yahoo.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:17 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

http://www.princeaircraft.com/html/web_page_price_list.HTM

  http://www.princeaircraft.com/html/order_form.html

  http://www.princeaircraft.com/html/application_chart.html



Gig Giacona <wr.giacona(at)cox.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: "Gig Giacona" 



While I had heard of the Prince P-Tip I hadn't read anything about it until you made this post. After looking at the Aircraft Spruce write up about it it may be a good choice that would give you some of the benefits of an in-flight adjustable prop and still keep you legal as far as the LSA rules are concerned.  Any questions?  Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. [quote][b]

armyret(at)mchsi.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:28 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Gig- I purchased a P-Tip  replacement for my 3300 XL about a year ago. 

Costs $1087.00

Al Young

---

craig(at)craigandjean.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Gig- I purchased a P-Tip  replacement for my 3300 XL about a year ago.


	


What kind of prop did you replace and what kind of performance change did

you see?



-- Craig

armyret(at)mchsi.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Craig-  I had a "incident" with my XL which required a new prop along with 

other parts.  I don't have enough data to answer your question.  I hope to 

get back into the air this month.  I only had 3 flights with the p-tip but I 

sure was impressed with the short time I experienced it.  I replaced a P-tip 

with the new one.

Al Young



---

ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:53 pm Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hello Paul,



Yes, I am aware, but that was not the meaning of my post...   What I have noted in many years of flying,  that most pilots,  want to get more speed of the airplane they fly.  even if its a  55 mph ultralight or a  match 2  jet...   



Speed is only important in long XCountries or races, I think.    



What I want to say is that once you  have an airplane,  enjoy it as is, probably a little "cleaning" to improve range,    On the other side,  to get a few mph of any given airframe,  you need lots more power,  gasoline and $   not worth it in my case.



Well I think not matters, Lets stop this matter.



 I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane flies.   



Saludos

Gary Gower

Please  Do not archive.



Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> wrote:[quote]   Hi Gary,



 Perhaps you are not aware, but we have a new set of rules for pilots and planes from the FAA in the United States.  For those of us too old and decrepit to want to fight for a "Special Issuance" medical certificate, there is the Sport Pilot restriction which allows us to fly any plane that meets the Light Sport Aircraft limits without a medical certificate.



 The short version of all of this is we can fly a 701 or 601 (most models, possibly not the HDS) without fighting for the medical certificate.  Higher performance planes like a Verieze don't qualify under this new rule.



 The essence of the Sport Pilot restriction is we must limit our flying to VFR day operations.  Personally, I like those limits anyway.   I might go get an instrument rating if I could do it without the medical certificate, but that will have to  wait a few years for the FAA to decide they don't like third class medical certificates any more.  That may happen and it may not.



 

 So, there is actually some merit for guys like me to try to squeeze performance out of my Zodiac XL that I just can't use if it comes from a heavier or naturally faster plane.



 Regards,



 Paul

 XL fuselage 

 do not archive



 

 At 12:10 PM 1/11/2007, you wrote:

 [quote]Respectfully,   What for?   Want to cruise faster, same engine?  buy a Varieze or with a 0200  a Long Eze...



 Lets enjoy the flight, once the wheels are off the ground  



 Saludos

 Gary Gower

 Hope to finish my 601XL soon.

 Now cruising at 85 - 90 in the 701 912S at 11,500 ft ASL (at) 5100 rpm

 Do not archive.



 Brandon Tucker <btucke73(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

   --> Zenith-List message posted by:  [quote][b]

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hi Gary,



Let me post one more comment on this subject.



First let me say I agree with you completely about enjoying 

flight.  I don't think a small change in speed is noticeable when you 

are flying.  I also agree that getting more speed means burning more fuel.



The other part of this issue is the desire to get more performance 

from your plane.  I see this as an engineering challenge.  This is 

also part of the Experimental Airplane spirit.  It seems like a 

wonderful opportunity to create great airplanes.  More likely it is 

an opportunity to try things that don't really help.  Still, the 

effort is its own reward.



More performance can have many meanings.  For a cross country cruiser 

this might mean more speed or range.  For a Bush Plane it might mean 

being able to take off or land on a shorter field.  For any pilot in 

any situation the ability to land exactly where you want to land and 

take off and clear the trees at the other end of the field are 

critical abilities.  Any and all of these qualities are reasonable 

targets for airplane experimenters.



I feel I have already gained a great deal just thinking about these 

things.  I have built a LRI which should improve my ability to land 

my plane in minimum distance.  I really don't know where all this 

experimentation might end.



It is all fun.



Best regards,



Paul





 	  Quote: 	
		    I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane flies.

amyvega2005(at)earthlink.
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 3:46 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Seniores



On the speed issue, to beat a dead dog deader,   The ZOdiac is a bit different than a 701, and a differnece goal.  It is LSA yes, however it is used by guys like me for VFR or IFR, nonLSA use, and sometimes trickin more speed out of the plane is better for my commute once a month to Miami.  distance of 190miles.  If I can sqeeze 10 mph faster, i will try.  Does not make any diffence at 5000 ft, it does feel the same, however it gets me there faster, and to some that is why we bought the plane.   If I wanted a varieze or a RV-7 I would have bought one.  Frankly I am not a carreer builder so the 601 is a good happy medium.  My goal is BUild it cheaper than a factory built one, build it within a year. What is nice bout the 601 is the cruise and range.  with a climb prop you will get 120-130 mph.  with a cruise prop, you get 120-140, mybe more if you want to burn 8 gph with the Jabiru 3300.   If I wanted to fly low and slow and land in my bath tub or drive way, the 701 is a great choice.   

I bought the Sen.  gound adjust prop for the flexability.  Some months when I am too fat from all that Cuban cooking, I give it Little more pitch, when the wife trims me down, the cruise setting goes back.  When my dad wants a ride, we are at max gross with two guys and half a pint of gas, so the climb setting is a blessing.



JUan   



--

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:23 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Juan, I too bought the Sensenich ground adjustable prop. It is my understanding that when you change the pitch, you will need to retune the carb jetting or you will lose enough efficiency and temperature control to negate the value of changing the pitch. 



The benefit of the adjustable prop is the choice of how one wants to set up the plane/engine/carb/prop combination but not to allow convenient mission-specific changes in pitch. Just my two cents worth and beware, I may have gotten it all wrong.



Perhaps someone with lots of experience here might chime in?



Ed Moody II



---- Juan Vega <amyvega2005(at)earthlink.net> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Seniores

 

 On the speed issue, to beat a dead dog deader,  


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I bought the Sen.  gound adjust prop for the flexability.  Some months when I am too fat from all that Cuban cooking, I give it Little more pitch, when the wife trims me down, the cruise setting goes back.  When my dad wants a ride, we are at max gross with two guys and half a pint of gas, so the climb setting is a blessing.

 

 JUan

p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Hi Ed,



I don't have experience but, as usual, I do have some thoughts on the matter.



I have been reading about issues with the Bing carburetor supplied 

with the Jabiru engine on this list and also other Jabiru specific 

lists.  It seems to me that the "Automatic" mixture control of this 

carburetor is little more than an empty promise.  While I think the 

Jabiru is clearly the best choice for powering a Zodiac XL, I also 

think the carburetor is a leading candidate for replacement with a 

normal one.  I have been adjusting my own mixture according to flight 

intentions and altitude for several decades now,  and I am very 

comfortable with continuing to do that.



I just heard a big recommendation for the Ellison TBI, EFS 3A as an 

ideal replacement for the Bing carburetor in this application.  I may 

just go ahead and do this right up front.



Best regards,



Paul

XL fuselage



At 06:22 AM 1/17/2007, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Juan, I too bought the Sensenich ground adjustable prop. It is my 

understanding that when you change the pitch, you will need to 

retune the carb jetting or you will lose enough efficiency and 

temperature control to negate the value of changing the pitch.



The benefit of the adjustable prop is the choice of how one wants to 

set up the plane/engine/carb/prop combination but not to allow 

convenient mission-specific changes in pitch. Just my two cents 

worth and beware, I may have gotten it all wrong.



Perhaps someone with lots of experience here might chime in?



Ed Moody II


	


-

ter_turn(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:03 am Post subject: Sensenich Composite Propeller

Paul, I would be interested in the details of the LRI you built! 

   

  Terry Turnquist

  60XL-Plans

  St. Peters, MO



Paul Mulwitz <p.mulwitz(at)worldnet.att.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Zenith-List message posted by: Paul Mulwitz 



Hi Gary,



Let me post one more comment on this subject.



First let me say I agree with you completely about enjoying 

flight. I don't think a small change in speed is noticeable when you 

are flying. I also agree that getting more speed means burning more fuel.



The other part of this issue is the desire to get more performance 

from your plane. I see this as an engineering challenge. This is 

also part of the Experimental Airplane spirit. It seems like a 

wonderful opportunity to create great airplanes. More  likely it is 

an opportunity to try things that don't really help. Still, the 

effort is its own reward.



More performance can have many meanings. For a cross country cruiser 

this might mean more speed or range. For a Bush Plane it might mean 

being able to take off or land on a shorter field. For any pilot in 

any situation the ability to land exactly where you want to land and 

take off and clear the trees at the other end of the field are 

critical abilities. Any and all of these qualities are reasonable 

targets for airplane experimenters.



I feel I have already gained a great deal just thinking about these 

things. I have built a LRI which should improve my ability to land 

my plane in minimum distance. I really don't know where all this 

experimentation might end.



It is all fun.



Best regards,



Paul





[quote] I enjoy flyiing at what ever speed the airplane  Any questions?  Get answers on any topic at Yahoo! Answers. Try it now. [quote][b]

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