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Kolb glider
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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:53 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

| My advise to all Kolb newbees,
|
| Please ignore the advise of "the experts" who claim to have
| experienced 10 or 12 engine outs.
Eugene Z:

I respresent that remark.

Next you all will be talking about "Kolb quit", the dreaded Kolb
malady that sneaks up on the unsuspecting when the Kolb stops flying.

john h
mkIII

DO NOT ARCHIVE


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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APilot(at)webtv.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

Re: soaring the T-craft. I too, use to try and soar my PA-11 Cub
Special. I was successful only once, but it was a fun time. I had no
electric start so I had to have a least 1500 feet to get the engine
fired up again. Nice airplane. Wish that I still had it. But, my Mark
III Classic is lots of fun too. With my newly designed wing tips and my
sensitive variometer, I hope to soar it this summer. At least I will
have the luxury of being able to re-start my G10 engine without diving
the Bee-Jesus out of it.


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1planeguy(at)kilocharlie.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:25 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

I certainly do not claim to be an "expert" nor do I "claim" to have had
at
least 10 engines out - it's a fact Jack!

All I'm saying is that a Kolb does not "drop like a rock" - which is
straight down! Many on the Kolb list have experienced engine failure and
have "glided" to a safe landing. Some have not but even those did not
"drop
like a rock". I just don't want to scare people who think that when an
engine quits on any plane it "drops out of the sky". Always have a good
landing site picked out no matter what you fly.

Peace and good flying.

Jim

<snip>

OK..."drops like a rock" is a commonly used exaggeration that means
"doesn't glide exceedingly well" not "instantly falls from sky"...that
being said, here is the best advice you'll get on the subject. "Know
thine OWN best glide speed (and stall speed, and ...etc.)" Those who
take the time and do a few tests with the engine at idle will know the
worst case for their aircraft. Some like to debate it but having tested
3 different planes both engine idle and engine off, they all glided
better engine off. So if you get a good idea of how far you can glide
engine idle, if the dreaded forced landing ever becomes a reality,
you'll get at least as good a glide rate as when you practiced engine
idle...

And worth what you paid for it...

Jeremy Casey


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:46 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

At 07:41 PM 1/23/2007, APilot(at)webtv.net wrote:
Quote:


...I had no
electric start so I had to have a least 1500 feet to get the engine
fired up again...At least I will
have the luxury of being able to re-start my G10 engine without diving
the Bee-Jesus out of it.

Yeah, same in the T-Craf, IIRC the prop would start spinning again just
below Vne... I suspect my US will take more than Vne to turn over a
2-stroke with reduction drive... not sure if I can pull start it from the seat.

-Dana
--
--
But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE!


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Michael Sharp



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 118
Location: Oak Grove, MO (Kansas City)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:55 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

True John but it won't happen if you give her a shot of SeaFoam!!!!

Please Do Not Archive....

Mike

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--It is the same the angels breathe.
Mark Twain,
Roughing it' 1886

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possums(at)bellsouth.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:17 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

I think 8 to 1 glide is about right for mine at 50 mph.
20 mph over stall. Not so good with floats through.
At least "lotus floats" I'm sure Steve's are better.
But you can still gettum out of the trees with out too much damage.
"The last Possum" ..........except for John H. of course.
Greg finally sold his plane last weekend.


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John Hauck



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:33 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

| "The last Possum" ..........except for John H. of course.
| Greg finally sold his plane last weekend.

Possum:

You got that right.

I have two zero ground roll landings. One in the Ultrastar and one in
the Firestar. The US was a single point landing. The nose went into
the mud. The Firestar stopped its descent six inches prior to tough
down. Both landings were nose down and vertical through the trees.

Did Greg use a parachute or stall it into the trees?

I cheated and used a hand deployed butt saver both times.

john h
mkIII

DO NOT ARCHIVE


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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama
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Eugene Zimmerman



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:43 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

John,
How smart is it for a new guy to take advise from guys whose "success
" is the distinction of having "at least ten engine outs" ,
when we have men like you, and others with great success and
experience without that dubious distinction of "fact"?

For me the dreaded "Kolb quit" happens after sunset of a beautiful
flying day and I close the hanger door.

On Jan 23, 2007, at 6:53 PM, John Hauck wrote:

Quote:

| My advise to all Kolb newbees,
|
| Please ignore the advise of "the experts" who claim to have
| experienced 10 or 12 engine outs.
Eugene Z:

I respresent that remark.

Next you all will be talking about "Kolb quit", the dreaded Kolb
malady that sneaks up on the unsuspecting when the Kolb stops flying.

john h
mkIII

DO NOT ARCHIVE



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possums(at)bellsouth.net
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:47 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

At 09:41 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
Quote:


>...I had no
>electric start so I had to have a least 1500 feet to get the engine
>fired up again...At least I will
>have the luxury of being able to re-start my G10 engine without diving
>the Bee-Jesus out of it.

I'd bet you couldn't get a Kolb to re-start, even diving the
"Bee-Jesus" out of it ....at least a 2-Stroke.

E-Gear Boxes are nice to have if you want to play around
and are not comfortable taking it all the way to the ground.
I think it's great to just turn the switch off at say ... 8,000 ft. and
see how long you can keep it floating till you want to
restart or just land. It always bumps up my heart rate when
I turn the key off. No matter how many times I've done it before!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:43 am    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

At 10:45 AM 1/23/07 -0800, you wrote:
Quote:


I sold my Quicksilver MX in Aug 2006 to buy a Kolb Firefly (which I got in
October). I expected the Firefly to glide better, but it's actually
worse.

Jim

The MX should glide better as it has more wing area. 156 to 117 square feet.

Jack B. Hart FF004
Winchester, IN


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Steve Boetto



Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:09 am    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

In a message dated 1/23/2007 10:18:59 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, possums(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Quote:
I think 8 to 1 glide is about right for mine at 50 mph.
20 mph over stall. Not so good with floats through.
At least "lotus floats" I'm sure Steve's are better.
But you can still gettum out of the trees with out too much damage.
"The last Possum" ..........except for John H. of course.
Greg finally sold his plane last weekend.


Possum, just guessed at 8 to 1. It is probably less but it does not really matter cause in my area around Winter Haven it is mostly water down below. I just hold enough altitude between lakes. I see the ability to do a steep approach as an asset.

steve
[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 7:52 am    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

Kolbers,

My retired airforce brother-in-law sent this one to me.

http://jet-man.com/playervideo.swf?video=jetman2007.flv

Jack B. Hart FF004
Wichester, IN


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knowvne(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

Now strap a skateboard to his Gut and he may have something....
hahahahaha
YOU FIRST... Cool

Mark Vaughn

--


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 9:54 am    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

At 07:53 AM 1/24/2007, Jack B. Hart wrote:
Quote:


The MX should glide better as it has more wing area. 156 to 117 square feet.

It's not really about wing area, but L/D (lift to drag ratio). The MX is
very "draggy", with all the exposed tubes and cables. You need to dive it
steeper to keep the speed up than you do with a cleaner airplane.

-Dana
--
--
But if we LEGALIZE it, we can't take your HOUSE!


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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Re: Kolb glider Reply with quote

Possum,

Those are amazing pictures.. I never heard about that. Im assuming you posted the story behond that, can you post a link to it ???

I dont think the MK III is anywhere near 10 to 1 glide. The Cessna 172 manual gives a glide ratio of 10.5 to one, and my MK III Xtra does not glide anywhere near as good as a 172 will. One day soon I will do a test to find the exact glide ratio, I am very curious about this. Compared to most spam can type airplanes, the Kolb has a very bad glide, offset by a very low touchdown speed and shot landing roll Smile

JetPilot


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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:42 am    Post subject: Re: Kolb glider Reply with quote

[quote="kolbmark3"]"The Kolbs drop like a rock" - not really! Granted, it is not like a glider, but having experienced at least ten "engine outs" from as low as 300 feet to as high as 2000 feet, the Mark III does give you some time to land. But in any plane, even a GA, it is always a good idea (read life saver) to have a potential landing site picked out.

Jim
Mark III
Quote:
[b]


Jim,

I am also interested in what would cause 10 engine outs ? Can you post some of the information on what caused them, and the kinds of places you land ? And most of all, what engine are you flying ! Im not trying to flame you here, I just think it would be really good information for the rest of us and very interesting stories about the landings !

JettPilot


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kolbmark3



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Mt Clemens, MI

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:35 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

They were kind of in "clusters" - and not all were complete surprises.

First one was with a 503 and I landed in a hay field, dodging bales of hay.
The next tow were in the same field. After landing, I could not find the
problem, tied the tail down, did an extended runup with no problem. Took
off, was still climbing, when it quit again. Landed, inspected everything,
replaced the fuel pump, did another extended runup, took off, engine quit.
Trailered it home, replaced all fuel lines, cleaned the fuel tanks, new fuel
pump. No more problems. What caused it? I am still not sure.

Next time was after a A&P had replaced the points. Took off and on downwind
it got real quiet. The key in the crankshaft sheared. Landed at my airport.
Replaced key, no more problem.

The other times were with a Rotax 532. I had taken off from a friend's
field, climbed to 2000', leveled out, reduced power, engine quit. Landed at
his field, did extended runup, climbed to 4000', everything ok. Flew back to
my airport with a landing spot always in sight. No problem getting back.
Then in trying to figure out what was wrong there followed a series of
takeoffs and engine outs (just after clearing the end of the field but with
enough altitude to do 180's).
No real sign of seizure but A&P tore down engine, cleaned cylinders and
pistons.Replaced the points with CDI, new radiator, rebuilt gearbox. No more
problems.

Now someone will flame me for taking off again after having a problem. Every
time I had a long enough runway to land if the engine quit on takeoff and/or
enough altitude to do a 180 and get back. In fact one time I had excess
altitude to loose in order to make the runway.

I may be slow but I'm not completely stupid nor do I have a death wish. I
now know I won't panic when the engine goes quiet - but I do have a lot more
experience with engine out landings than I really want!

Jim

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Mark III
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biglar



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:24 pm    Post subject: Kolb glider Reply with quote

When I took some lessons in an MX II in '95, the instructor told me to hold
pattern altitude of 500 ft till I could see the numbers between my feet, (no
floor in that thing) then pull back the throttle to about (I think) 1/4 or
1/3 power, watch the airspeed indicator (ball in tube type - can't remember
the name) out of the corner of my eye and hold it at 40 mph, then flare just
before hitting. He clamped his hand over mine on the stick to make sure I
obeyed. It was spooky. We came down almost on the numbers, and
the.........flare........almost wasn't. About (it seemed) 5 ft from the
ground he pulled my hand back on the stick, we flared and hit. Not too
hard, either, it were a perty good landing. I can't imagine anything with a
worse glide ratio. Lar. Do not
Archive.

Larry Bourne
Santa Fe, NM
www.gogittum.com
---


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Building Kolb Mk IIIC
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planecrazzzy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Kolb glider Reply with quote

Hey Big Lar,
The "key" your talking about.... is 40

Mine will drop in fast at 40..... but if I shoot for 50 , she glides VERY good

Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN


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JetPilot



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Kolb glider Reply with quote

planecrazzzy wrote:
Hey Big Lar,
The "key" your talking about.... is 40

Mine will drop in fast at 40..... but if I shoot for 50 , she glides VERY good

Gotta Fly...
Mike in MN


Thats 2 reports of firestars that glide well...
Im beginning to suspect that the Firestar has a much better glide ratio than the MK-III Xtra.

Michael A. Bigelow


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Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S
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