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Aviation Activism

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dean.psiropoulos(at)veriz
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

I'm sorry you feel that way Walter.  While you desire to ignore the

important issues of our time, the politicians are hard at work trying to

take away what's left our precious freedoms and liberties that the founding

fathers (Bob is referring to) worked so hard to establish and preserve (and

there aint many left).  Two shining examples of that in the last two days

have been presidential hopeful John Edwards saying he's going to raise taxes

to pay for a huge new socialized medicine program that he'll enact if he's

president (this from an ambulance chaser lawyer who just moved into a 26000,

yes twenty six thousand, square foot mansion built from money that he

obtained through private enterprise).  The other example happened just a few

hours ago on an interview with New York Senator Charles Schumer.  This

little power hungry career politician lawyer was bragging about how he would

be taking away all property rights from those evil folks that would pollute

the land, air and water (great you may say but in the end it will be your

and my property rights that he'll be taking, because his party does not

believe that the average person is responsible enough or capable enough to

tend to his own affairs or take care of his own personal possessions). 



Everyone, whether you are 19 years old or 90 needs to check up on what the

people in Washington (and the politicians in your home state) are doing

EVERY WEEK.  And, not be afraid to confront them by calling, emailing or

writing their offices and making your views known in their town hall

meetings.  Remember these people are supposed to be elected representatives

of the we the people, they are NOT gods or deities of any sort.  Alas I'm

afraid that a good many of them are power hungry career politician lawyers

who go there for decades and never retire because they are having too much

fun spending tax money they don't have and writing ever more laws to control

the populace.  Remember the old adage, "the only way evil can prevail is for

good people to do nothing".  For those of you who think we are out of the

woods now that the Democrat party controls congress think again.  The reason

Democrats don't like User Fees is because it takes the power hungry lawyer

politicians out of control of the ATC system.  Virginia Democrat congressman

Jay Rockefeller only last week was grilling the TSA chief about why we still

have this "big security loop hole" in general aviation!!!  No matter who is

in control in government, they will find excuses to take away our rights

(you notice I said rights not privileges).  Bob is right, we aviators are

just a teensy weensy minority in the mass of special interests groups.  We

ALL need to be very diligent and very active in politics or the airplane

building and flying that we so dearly love will be regulated and/or taxed

out of existence!



Dean

RV-6A N197DM 

Coming up on first flight

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Walter Fellows" <walter.fellows(at)gmail.com>

Subject: Re: Re: FAA MAY TAKE AWAY PANEL-MOUNT OPTION

FOR PORTABLE GPS


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  I would request anyone who writes a message here about politics

(Republican, Democrat, Conservative or Liberal) to include the word SPAM in

the message header so that my spam filter has a chance of catching it and

if not, I know to delete it without reading it.

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 9:36 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

In addition to your message, which plainly points out all the  mean and evil 

Democrats by name, we still have way too many Republicans trying to spend 

all your money (while claiming they're fiscal conservatives), create more 

laws to restrict our flying (while claiming to preserve freedoms), and 

engaging in all kinds  illicit behaviors (while claiming to be for ethics 

and the common man).



Maybe Walter is right . . . we shouldn't talk politics on this board.



Jeff

---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:57 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

At 12:35 AM 2/6/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



In addition to your message, which plainly points out all the  mean and 

evil Democrats by name, we still have way too many Republicans trying to 

spend all your money (while claiming they're fiscal conservatives), create 

more laws to restrict our flying (while claiming to preserve freedoms), 

and engaging in all kinds illicit behaviors (while claiming to be for 

ethics and the common man).



Maybe Walter is right . . . we shouldn't talk politics on this board.


	


    Yup, politics gets some folks riled up, that's why

    I prefer to talk about responsible citizenship and

    honorable behavior.



    While there may be individuals who's dishonorable

    behavior is more obvious (due their celebrity status on

    popular media) I'll suggest there are a miniscule

    number of officials from the president down local dog-

    catcher who operates under the doctrine suggested

    by their oaths of office . . .



    An elected official's first act is participation in

    a swearing in ceremony. May I quote from Wikipedia?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_office



    "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully

    execute the Office of President of the United States, and

    will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend

    the Constitution of the United States."



    "Oaths of office are usually a statement of loyalty to

    a constitution or other legal text, as well as an oath

    to the state or religion the office holder will be serving.

    It is often considered treason or a high crime to betray

    a sworn oath of office."



    I'll suggest that the first official act of the majority

    of our elected officials is to violate their oath by

    voting for new laws that attack the liberty of

    individual citizens.



    Yes, our friend Dean crossed the line by making his

    efforts to teach/inform personal . . . i.e. political. We

    should all encourage him to formulate his words such

    that they covey the meaning he seeks to share but

    without the appearance of tossing cabbages and

    tomatoes. How about this, "Just last night I witnessed

    individuals running for high public office who

    promised to raise our taxes to fund a public health

    care program." This is not a political statement

    but one of fact. A simple recitation of observed events.



    There is a fine . . . but exceedingly distinct

    line between teaching/informing and persuading/

    propagandizing.  The former is the way simple-

    ideas which support logical conclusions may be

    illuminated and examined. The latter is the

    mechanism by which popular mandates are extracted

    in support of the doctrine, "majority rule trumps

    principle every time".



    I'll encourage folks who acquire skills to dissect

    the components of their airplanes down to the level

    of simple-ideas use those same skills for every other

    important task in their life. I can think of few

    tasks more important than the process of selecting

    individuals who will exercise great power over us all.



    Bob . . .

kayce33(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

Just curious, who pays for an ill considered war and squandered surplus 

without raising taxes...from an independent thinker.

Kayce

---

endspeed(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

Hi Guys,  "I am sure there is a good place for this

discussion but I think we will lose a good electrical

board if we allow topic drift here.  Bob Sultzbach



P.S. Maybe Bob could make a political discussion board



 Harold <kayce33(at)earthlink.net> wrote:



[quote] 

 <kayce33(at)earthlink.net>

 

 Just curious, who pays for an ill considered war and

 squandered surplus 

 without raising taxes...from an independent thinker.

 Kayce

 ---

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

Harold - 



Growth of the economy, low interest rates due to foreigners holding our

debt, minimum sustainable unemployment (not everyone wants to work),

higher wages=higher taxes, home ownership equity increases, growth of

the stock market. I guess the Demos in a minority want to take credit

and can (will always)blame Bush and Republicans for the FAA user fees

about to cripple General Aviation.  It was the cover story in the WSJ

just yesterday.  I feel someone trying to reach in my pocket.



We probably need more loss of innocent lives and a full fledged stock

market crash and ensuing national depression after the Clinton years to

put Aviation electric issues back on the table.  The Iraq issue has been

there for years and will be there for decades regardless of which

politic party squanders our earned income assessments.  Less government

is better for everyone... less republicans, less democrats, less

decent... back to work everybody.



Shall we talk sparks and P-static electrons due to all the friction?



John Cox



Do not Archive



--

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 8:44 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

At 10:39 AM 2/6/2007 -0500, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Just curious, who pays for an ill considered war and squandered surplus 

without raising taxes...from an independent thinker.


	


    Your question is surely rhetorical but let us consider

    it. First, let us strip out the words for which there

    are a wide range of understandings that will only

    serve to generate a lot of debate. To reduce it to

    a consideration of the simple-idea, we'll need to

    edit it thusly . . .



    Q: "Who pays for a war?"



    Now the question may be addressed in equally simple,

    irrefutable terms.



    A: "Government participates in no value-added,

    merchantable activities from which income is

    realized. Therefore all revenues needed to conduct any

    governmental endeavor must come from individuals who

    DO have activities that generate income."



    Bob . . .

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

Funny that when the economy is good under a Dem it's due to the Repub before 

him, because the economy "just doesn't turn over night" but when we have a 

good one under a Repub then .... oh never mind.  Repubs will just spin it.

---

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:14 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

We're going to pay for a lot of it with these new fuel taxes that are, 

in-fact, user fees for General Aviation.  It's coming . .  . . and the 

government has spent all of you/our money, so they'll need a lot.



Jeff



---

N6030X(at)DaveMorris.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:37 am Post subject: Aviation Activism

Tsk tsk tsk.  I really don't think any of you people on the extremes 

(Republicans or Democrats) want the vast majority of us "in the 

middle" to start slinging mud, because then everybody will get 

dirty.  There's plenty of blame to go around.  The main thing we've 

got to do is to make sure that, no matter who is in power, they don't 

step all over us any more than they have already done and are 

planning to do shortly.



We've already lost so many of our industries.  The internal 

combustion engine will be under attack shortly, the FAA doesn't know 

the difference between engineering for safety and legislating for 

safety, and the politicians think they've found another easy 

target.  Time to suit up.



Dave Morris



At 12:11 PM 2/6/2007, you wrote:

[quote]



Funny that when the economy is good under a Dem it's due to the 

Repub before him, because the economy "just doesn't turn over night" 

but when we have a good one under a Repub then .... oh never 

mind.  Repubs will just spin it.

---

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

I have to say that I'm just fed up with the whole mess. Neither party does

what it says it is going to do, neither party lives up to the ideals they

claim to support. And I'm afraid neither party actually gives a S**T what

happens to "little people". Rest assured they will find a way into your

pocket one way or another.

Purported economic growth is benefiting only the uber-rich while middle

class and below are seeing their adjusted incomes stagnate or go backwards.

Job creation is nothing but the smoke and mirrors of replacing good paying

manufacturing jobs with low-paying service jobs, further complicated with

the ever present influx of L-1 visa holders undercutting the middle class

income at the request of greedy uber-rich industrialists, and illegal

unskilled immigrants kicking the feet out from under the unskilled working

class. A situation being pushed from both parties.

Alternative party politicians range from the fringe to the center, but

generally unelectable for various reasons.

The bottom line is try to hold on to whatever you have. Write the b******s

in Washington and express your views, don't vote for the same clowns over

and over. Don't expect much to change. Much like a poorly run company grown

too large, the good ol boys preserve their fiefdoms, and guard the halls of

power jealously.

Hope you die before they come for your stuff.

All is lost.

Craig Smith



--

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

michael.phil(at)ca.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

You sound like a crybaby that didn't get his way. 

I thought this was the AeroElectric List. It seems I've stumbled into "I hate America because its just a bunch of liberals (consrvatives)" list by mistake.



---- C Smith <pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote: 

[quote] 

 

 I have to say that I'm just fed up with the whole mess. Neither party does

 what it says it is going to do, neither party lives up to the ideals they

 claim to support. And I'm afraid neither party actually gives a S**T what

 happens to "little people". Rest assured they will find a way into your

 pocket one way or another.

 Purported economic growth is benefiting only the uber-rich while middle

 class and below are seeing their adjusted incomes stagnate or go backwards.

 Job creation is nothing but the smoke and mirrors of replacing good paying

 manufacturing jobs with low-paying service jobs, further complicated with

 the ever present influx of L-1 visa holders undercutting the middle class

 income at the request of greedy uber-rich industrialists, and illegal

 unskilled immigrants kicking the feet out from under the unskilled working

 class. A situation being pushed from both parties.

 Alternative party politicians range from the fringe to the center, but

 generally unelectable for various reasons.

 The bottom line is try to hold on to whatever you have. Write the b******s

 in Washington and express your views, don't vote for the same clowns over

 and over. Don't expect much to change. Much like a poorly run company grown

 too large, the good ol boys preserve their fiefdoms, and guard the halls of

 power jealously.

 Hope you die before they come for your stuff.

 All is lost.

 Craig Smith

 

 --

pilot4pay

Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 171
Location: Louisville, KY

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: Re: Aviation Activism

[quote="michael.phil(at)ca.rr.com"]You sound like a crybaby that didn't get his way. 

I thought this was the AeroElectric List. It seems I've stumbled into "I hate America because its just a bunch of liberals (consrvatives)" list by mistake.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Now there's a real gem of intellectual discourse! Name calling and personal attack.

Where did I say I "hate" America? I spent 4 yrs of my life serving my country. What planet did you come from? Some one started a thread open for comment on political activism. What's your problem?

Don't want to read opinions on political activism? Don't read post relating to activism.

Grow up. "GEORGE"

Craig Smith

Do not Archinve

_________________
Craig Smith
CH640 builder
SN: 0078

"Just think how stupid the average person is,
and then realize that half of them are even stupider!"
--George Carlin

kayce33(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:15 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

AMEN

---

kayce33(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

I too spent 4 years in the military...korean era...that's what Amedrica's 

about ....FREE Speech

---

nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:33 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

At 02:32 PM 2/6/2007 -0800, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



You sound like a crybaby that didn't get his way.

I thought this was the AeroElectric List. It seems I've stumbled into "I 

hate America because its just a bunch of liberals (consrvatives)" list by 

mistake.


	


    . . . and your hyperbole is and more restrained? It's

    a sure bet that everyone in Washington wants us to use

    our political investment of $time$ in such no-value-

    added discussions. It distracts us from the real issues.

    This thread has strayed from Aviation Activism. Let's

    bring it back to that topic or let it go.



    Bob . . .

larry(at)macsmachine.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 5:30 pm Post subject: Aviation Activism

PLEASE NOTE: 

I REALLY DON'T LIKE READING POLITICAL GARBAGE, BUT PLEASE PLACE A

"DO NOT ARCHIVE"  ONTO THE END OF THESE PERSONAL WEEPINGS....This is a place

where technical discourse is preferred. Out of context subjects don't 

blend to this forum, so please

take it someplace where someone cares.  Lots of blogs out there...........

THANKS

LARRY MCFARLAND

do not archive

pilot4pay wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 [quote="michael.phil(at)ca.rr.com"]You sound like a crybaby that didn't get his way. 

 I thought this was the AeroElectric List. It seems I've stumbled into "I hate America because its just a bunch of liberals (consrvatives)" list by mistake.

> Now there's a real gem of intellectual discourse! Name calling and personal attack.

> Where did I say I "hate" America? I spent 4 yrs of my life serving my country. What planet did you come from? Some one started a thread open for comment on political activism. What's your problem?

> Don't want to read opinions on political activism? Don't read post relating to activism.

> Grow up. "GEORGE"

> Craig Smith

> Do not Archinve

>     

 --------

 Craig Smith

 Future CH640 builder

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