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NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

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John H Murphy

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Henderson, NV

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:26 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

I'm a little confused about which NGK plug works "best" in the Rotax engine. What are the upsides and downsides of the resistor type BR8ES NGK Spark Plug? I'm figuring the upside is the ability to reduce noise in my radio. Am I trading off noise for a less reliable spark plug?

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:54 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

Probably not less reliable. If it was less reliable, Rotax wouldn't tell you 

to use it.



But the hotter a spark I can have, that's what I want. If I don't need a 

resistor plug, then I won't use one.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:59 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

Spark Plug? I'm figuring the upside is the ability to reduce noise in 

my radio. Am I trading off noise for a less reliable spark plug?



John M:



There is not enough difference in performance between resistor and 

non-resistor plugs to measure.  Most engines are equipped with 

resistor plugs.  I know the 912 series engines are factory equipped 

with resistor plugs.  Rotax would not install a spark plug that was 

less reliable than another, especially in a two stroke.  The  NGK 

resistor plugs and Rotax have been operating many, many successful 

hours.



What does Rotax put in the two strokes now days?



My 2 cents worth.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Paul Petty

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Mississippi

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: Re: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

But the hotter a spark I can have, that's what I want



Brother Richard,



The heat range of a spark plug does not refrance the heat of the spark but rather the heat transfer of the spark plug to the cly head as Eric Tucker explained to me in the 4 stroke school If i remember it correctly

_________________
Paul Petty
Kolbra #12
Ms Dixie
912 UL 70" warp

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

Assuming that you have an ignition system in perfect condition, I'm sure 

it's not worth measuring. But if one of us might some day have the 

remarkable misfortune to have an ignition system that is putting out less 

than it should, (Unthinkable! Rotax ignition systms are surely failure 

proof) or leave a spark plug in too long and let it get cruddy (Never 

happen, GI) then you might be glad to have as little resistance in your 

system as possible.



Especially if you don't need it, which is my whole point.



Here is a link to the difference between resistor vs non-resistor plugs:

http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginetroublshooting/resistorcapsandplugs.htm



Here is a line to the CPS tech page on plugs

http://www.800-airwolf.com/pdffiles/ARTICLES/part9.pdf

-which says that using both a resistor cap and a resistor plug can cause 

problems.

And which I have experienced in the past.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



PS: I know perfectly well what Rotax puts in two strokes these days, just as 

I know what stock Kolbs are like. But if that is all that matters, why do 

any of us change anything?

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

This is correct. A hot spark is a spark that I can see jump a big gap in the 

daylight as opposed to a cold spark that is so wimpy it can only be seen in 

the dark, and may or may not fire the plug. Having a hot spark has nothing 

to do with heat range. Apples and oranges.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Jim Baker

Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 181
Location: Sayre, PA

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:32 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

 	  Quote: 	
		   But the hotter a spark I can have, that's what I want. If I don't need a 

 resistor plug, then I won't use one.


	


God's-own-Lightning would be a welcome change from the 

anemic flicker we now enjoy. Just look at plugs taken from a 

modern coil-on-plug vehicle when the owner actually takes the 

100,000 mile plug replacement interval as gospel...electrodes 

are probably absent and/or  reduced to nubbins but still light the 

fires reliably....not efficently, but still......



Jim Baker

580.788.2779

Elmore City, OK

John H Murphy

Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 78
Location: Henderson, NV

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

I was impressed with the CPS article on plugs. I think I'm going to order some non resistor plugs just in case.

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

| Richard Pike

| MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

|

| PS: I know perfectly well what Rotax puts in two strokes these days, 

just as

| I know what stock Kolbs are like. But if that is all that matters, 

why do

| any of us change anything?

Richard:



The CDI is super hot.  If you let a plug get cruddy enough to foul, it 

ain't gonna make any difference if it is resistor or not.  Now days, 

if you foul a plug, you better not be flying cause you got a serious 

problem.



Now..............if you want to fly with a non resistor plug. 

Great!!!



I prefer resistor.



You probably light up the airport when you crank.



john h

mkIII



PS:  I will sleep better tonight because you know what comes in Rotax 

and stock Kolbs.  However, to change something for nothing can not be 

too gratifying.  I have certainly done that many times when I found 

out my idea did not work as I thought it would.

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

| I was impressed with the CPS article on plugs. I think I'm going to 

order some non resistor plugs just in case.

|



John M:



You might check the date on the CPS publication.  Sounds to me like it 

was written back in the early days when we were flying with point ign 

and not CDI which fires through peanut butter.



As far as California Power Systems goes, they have a a lot of articles 

written by Mike Stratman who owns the company and makes lots of money 

selling you all parts whether you need them or not.



If you have questions reference Rotax engines, why not check with the 

source, Rotax?  That's what I do.



A CDI system either works or doesn't work.  There is no in between 

like the old point system.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

Yeah, it's so super hot we have to run a plug gap of .020 max

Whoo Hoo

My wife's motorcycle runs a bigger spark gap...

And as far as lighting up the airport? If I can't hear hash on my home made 

recycled radio system, why should I think it would bother other people with 

a good system? Anyway, no complaints in ten years.



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

funderp47

Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 4
Location: NC

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

First post from a long time lurker in NC who has read the Kolb list for years and may someday own a Kolb. Name's Phil and I presently fly a Hawk from my pasture at the edge of Wilkes county down 421 from Boone, Mr. Pike.  I have learned a lot from this list and only today felt the need to post.



I have only owned 503's since 1999.  I noticed (or didn't notice) the  spark on a CDI is virtually invisible in daylight.  The points model I owned was readily visible and when I bought my first dual CDI 503 I was surprised to learn it has a weaker spark than the points ignition. I learned to shade the plug to check for spark.



I've since heard the same thing from others, and have found out Ducati CDIs make for more difficult pull starting because of insufficient rpms to produce a hot enough spark. 



I'll take the weaker spark for dual ignition.



Basic electronics.  When current flows in a circuit, voltage is dropped (lost) across any resistance.  When the plug fires, current flows. Any resistance in series with the spark plug gap has a voltage drop that robs voltage from the gap.



Each voltage drop across any resistances in this series circuit subtracts from or reduces the gap voltage.  The built in resistance in the spark plug and the resistance of the spark plug cap are two of them.  



So if you use a resistor plug and a resistor cap, you are reducing the voltage of the spark at the gap. The reduced voltage at the gap makes for less radio interference.



My only experience is with 503's, and although I know of 503's with both resistor plugs and caps that seem to do just fine, I run the non-resistor plug.



Back to lurk mode.



Do not archive

WhiskeyVictor36(at)aol.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:59 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

In a message dated 3/4/2007 8:41:43 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  jhm9812(at)yahoo.com writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I think    I'm going to order some non resistor plugs just in  case 	


 

 John Murphy,

  

 You can get NGK B8ES plugs at an automotive store (Pep Boys), but they  won't have the solid caps.  They'll have the screw on type caps.   But you could use them as a test to see if it causes radio interference.

  

 Bill  Varnes

Original Kolb FireStar

Audubon NJ

Do Not  Archive



AOL now offers free email to everyone.  Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. 

  [quote][b]

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:18 pm Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

Put the resistor plugs on the two leads  for one coil, and the non-resistor plugs on the leads for the other coil. Do a  mag check and listen to your radio and see if the hash level changes.  

  

 Richard Pike

 MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

After a careful search of the Rotax Parts manual I replaced my resistor caps and installed resistor plugs as well.  My radio noise decreased; my climb rate did not.  The idle seems to be just a touch rougher, but temps were in the low 60's this weekend and I didn't lower my needles 'til after I got back home.  I did lots of slow flight, stalls and sink rate testing at an idle and the engine was a little less smooth, but never even hinted at wanting to die.  Throttle response was positive and instant.  Interestingly, the non-resistor plugs are not listed for the 503 in the current on-line parts manual.



Many of the newer 2 stroke dirt bikes use resistor plug because the R/F generated by standard plugs can mess with the electronic ignition at high RPMs (or so a local dealer tells me).



By the way, if you need new caps and plugs, go to sparkplugs.com.  They have the NGK LB50EZ plug caps (same NGK part number as on my 503) for $2.24 ea.  Rotax price is over $16ea.  You will have to live with black instead of red; Otherwise they are identical.  They have plugs as well.  Just type in "solid" after the plug number to get the solid tops. Be careful, Aircraft Spruce will send you screw tops.  You would think an aircraft supply outfit would know better (or at least tell you they are screw tops).



Here is the address to  a .pdf of NGK's resistor cap number scheme for anyone interested. 



http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/Resistor_Covers.pdf



Fly when the sun shines, fish for steelhead when it rains!

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

After a careful search of the Rotax Parts manual I replaced my resistor caps and installed resistor plugs as well.  My radio noise decreased; my climb rate did not.  The idle seems to be just a touch rougher, but temps were in the low 60's this weekend and I didn't lower my needles 'til after I got back home.  I did lots of slow flight, stalls and sink rate testing at an idle and the engine was a little less smooth, but never even hinted at wanting to die.  Throttle response was positive and instant.  Interestingly, the non-resistor plugs are not listed for the 503 in the current on-line parts manual.



Many of the newer 2 stroke dirt bikes use resistor plug because the R/F generated by standard plugs can mess with the electronic ignition at high RPMs (or so a local dealer tells me).



By the way, if you need new caps and plugs, go to sparkplugs.com.  They have the NGK LB50EZ plug caps (same NGK part number as on my 503) for $2.24 ea.  Rotax price is over $16ea.  You will have to live with black instead of red; Otherwise they are identical.  They have plugs as well.  Just type in "solid" after the plug number to get the solid tops. Be careful, Aircraft Spruce will send you screw tops.  You would think an aircraft supply outfit would know better (or at least tell you they are screw tops).



Here is the address to  a .pdf of NGK's resistor cap number scheme for anyone interested. 



http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/Resistor_Covers.pdf



Fly when the sun shines, fish for steelhead when it rains!

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

d-m-hague(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 4:07 am Post subject: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

At 11:43 PM 3/5/2007, R. Hankins wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



Here is the address to  a .pdf of NGK's resistor cap number scheme for 

anyone interested.



http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/Resistor_Covers.pdf


	


That's good info, thanks for the link.  Interesting... I used to have an 

old Quicksilver weightshift (with the 15hp Yamaha engine).  It had a cap 

that was made to slip over the stud (not solid) terminal spark plug cap 

with the terminal removed; there was a spring loaded metal ball that 

pressed on the threads.  This would seem to be a good solution; no worries 

about obtaining solid cap plugs locally, and no worries about the screw on 

cap coming loose since you already removed it.  Confused the hell out of me 

at first, though.  Apparently that's the "F" instead of "E" in the part number.



BTW, all this talk of resistor plugs... my understanding was always that if 

you have a resistor cap you should NOT also use resistor plugs.  Als, that 

LB50EZ part number... are you sure it's correct?  That NGK page shows 

"05"  but not "50".



                                 -Dana

--

--

1. Misogynist.........Women are no good

2. Feminist...........Men are no good

3. Environmentalist...People are no good

4. Cannibal...........People are good.

R. Hankins

Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 185
Location: Grants Pass, Oregon

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:30 pm Post subject: Re: NGK Spark Plugs - resistor or not?

Oops! I fat fingered the part number. LB05EZ is correct.

_________________
Roger in Oregon
1992 KXP 503 - N1782C

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