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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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 Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:15 am Post subject: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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I'm thinking of making a trip from back East...Michigan...via Sun 'n'
Fun, then on to California in my Model IV. For those of you who
have made the crossing, what advice can you give? I'm a Sport Pilot,
so I have to stay below 10,000 feet MSL. I'm thinking of the
Guadalupe Pass, down near El Paso, TX, as I'll be down there visiting
along the way. Any other ideas as to a safe crossing point?
Lynn
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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rjdaugh
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 12:11 pm Post subject: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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Lynn,
Remember it is below 10,000' or up to 1,000' AGL. So if the ground level is
9,800' you can fly to 10,800' etc.
Randy
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Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:29 pm Post subject: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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I wish you were right, Randy, but according to 2007 Far 61.315 (c)
"You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft: (11)
"At an altitude of more than 10,000 feet MSL." I don't see anything
that allows for 1,000 AGL under the Sport Pilot rules, and believe
me, I've looked at these rules with the eye of a lawyer (ugh), and I
can't find a loophole in that 10,000 foot rule.
I realize that nobody's gonna know...under most circumstances...if
you got a little high, and if safety became a concern, I'd go a
little higher, but...
Are you maybe thinking about the allowance for Recreational Pilots
who may go to 10,000' MSL or 2,000' AGL, whichever is higher?
Lynn
On Mar 4, 2007, at 3:11 PM, Randy Daughenbaugh wrote:
[quote]
<rjdaugh(at)rapidnet.com>
Lynn,
Remember it is below 10,000' or up to 1,000' AGL. So if the ground
level is
9,800' you can fly to 10,800' etc.
Randy
.
--
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Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
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barry(at)pgtc.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:43 pm Post subject: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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Lynn, I have made the trip many times, both the southern route and following
I40, but not in my Model IV. Most trips were in a C182 and some in a
Cardinal RG. I have often considered doing it in the Model IV and would
love to. However, I don't camp and don't want to spend many nights in
motels.
Either way is about the same, depending on the weather you get, and either
can certainly be done below 10,000. Summer is bad because the desert heated
air gets really rough. Spring should be OK. Stay in touch with the centers
for flight following and it would be wise to stay in gliding distance of the
Interstates. Watch out for weather near Guadalupe Peak. Expect headwinds
going and tailwinds coming back -- but it doesn't always work that way.
Barry West
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84KF
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 2:50 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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!0,000' MSL ...no higher as sportpilot.
Read on.....
Federal Register / Vol. 69, No. 143 / Tuesday, July 27, 2004 / Rules and Regulations Page 44825
Proposed section 73(b)(6) of SFAR No.
89 (now § 61.315(c)(11)) would have
restricted the operation of a light-sport
aircraft to altitudes of no more than
10,000 feet above MSL or 2,000 feet
above ground level (AGL), whichever is
higher. The FAA received several
comments on this proposed restriction,
and nearly all of them opposed it. Most
stated that allowing pilots to fly at
higher altitudes would enhance safety.
Several commenters noted that higher
altitudes permit safer stall and spin
recovery training because of the
increased margin for error. One
commenter specifically noted that
visibility is often better above 10,000
feet MSL, which enhances safety.
Another commenter offered a similar
observation, noting that pilots often
choose to fly at higher altitudes to avoid
flying through dangerous weather
systems. Many commenters also noted
that glider pilots often need to fly at
altitudes greater than 10,000 feet MSL to
take full advantage of areas of rising
warm air, called thermals, which help to
keep gliders aloft.
The FAA does not believe that these
commenters provided valid justification
for amending the rule. After considering
these comments and other comments
expressing concern about sport pilots
operating in congested, high-altitude
airspace, the FAA has revised
§ 61.315(c)(11) to be more restrictive.
The rule now prohibits operations above
10,000 feet MSL, and the latitude that
was proposed for operations up to 2,000
feet AGL, if higher, is removed. The
FAA is making this revision for the
following reasons.
First, operations above 10,000 feet
MSL require that a pilot have skills and
training on oxygen requirements and
medical factors, reduced aircraft
performance, and the other risks
associated with operations at higher
altitudes. The minimum training that a
sport pilot receives does not encompass
these additional training requirements.
Second, given that the aircraft that
typically operate above 10,000 feet MSL
are often much larger than light-sport
aircraft and usually cruise at
considerably higher speeds, the FAA is
concerned about permitting light-sport
aircraft to operate at the same altitudes
as these aircraft.
Third, light-sport aircraft typically do
not have position or anticollision lights
to help other pilots see and avoid these
aircraft, which would be beneficial at
higher speeds.
Lastly, there are still many areas in
the United States where operations
above 10,000 feet MSL do not require
communication with ATC or the
equipment required to be easily
identified on radar by ATC, such as
transponders. Most light-sport aircraft
do not have transponders or the
capability to conduct radio
communications, reducing their ability
to coordinate their operations with ATC
and be easily identified to ensure
collision avoidance.
Several commenters disagreed with
the limit of 2,000 feet AGL, arguing that
most pilots would prefer, in the interest
of safety, to clear mountains by more
than 2,000 feet AGL. The FAA agrees
with these commenters in that there
could be circumstances in which a sport
pilot would need more than 2,000 feet
AGL to safely clear a mountain.
However, as discussed above regarding
training and equipment required for
high-altitude operations, the FAA does
not believe it is necessary to permit
operations above 10,000 feet MSL solely
for the purpose of crossing mountainous
terrain. The pilot must determine
whether it is safe to clear mountainous
terrain and remain below 10,000 feet
MSL.
The FAA is revising § 61.311(c), and
limiting sport pilot operations at all
times to below 10,000 feet MSL. The
FAA believes that this revision will
simplify the altitude restrictions and
increase the level of safety.
If this has been changed since original publication, I will stand corrected.
Steve
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N81JG(at)AOL.COM
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:06 pm Post subject: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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I believe the original proposed rule for LSA had the 1000 ft. AGL in it, but it was dropped for the final rule. I don't understand the reasoning other than transponder altitude parallel.
John Greaves
VariEze N81JG
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at6657x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com.
[quote][b]
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rjdaugh
Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:27 pm Post subject: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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Thanks for that Steve. I will try to find one of my sources. It was on the
EAA site.
My other source was a speaker from the FAA at a picnic last summer. He was
asked if a sport pilot could fly into the Leadville, Colorado airport which
is just 73 feet shy of 10,000'. The speaker said sure. - and I thought
mentioned the 1,000' AGL. It must have been 2,000'.
I will see if I can find anything on the EAA site. If not, I guess I am
wrong.
Randy
.
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Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota |
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84KF
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Speaking of trips...Fla. to Cal. |
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The 10,000' rule is a pilot certificate issue, and has nothing to do with LSA. also... A pilot holding at least a private certificate may fly a ELSA or SLSA aircraft above 10'000' MSL (if properly equipped.)
The aircraft in question is an experimental-amateur built being flown under sportpilot privileges, not to be confused with LSA compliant aircraft. Don't worry...seems to be a common misconception.
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