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914 battery location.

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tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:53 am Post subject: 914 battery location.

Gidday,

In the process of deciding if my 914 powered conventional undercarriage Taildragger should or will need the battery to go down the back, beside the tail plane counterbalance containment tower. If not, I can use the mount that I have built back there for a Trigg transponder remote unit mount. Also, in the not too distant future if I decide on putting the battery back there, well I'll need to run big cabling too before my top goes on, hopefully mid year. Any thought much appreciated.

Tony Renshaw

Sydney Aussie

Sent from my iPad

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rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 808

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 8:35 am Post subject: Re: 914 battery location.

Hi Tony



My XS mono has a 914. It also has a Airmaster CS prop and second B+C alternator.



On a mono ground handling is much improved if you are not near the forward CG.



I chose to put a Odyssey PC545 way aft mounted:

http://www.europaowners.org/main.php?g2_itemId=30710

with #4 copper clad aluminium wire.

I calculated and you save just about one pound using #4 copper clad aluminium over #4 copper.

One downside to aluminium clad wire is it work hardens very easy and the strands are larger than #4 tefzel wire. Thus bend it and it breaks a lot easier. Think gentle bends and good strain relief.



I also added weight to the front of my stabilators that will reduce load to the drive pins and weight required on the mass balance arm by ~ 15%. Thus 3 pounds of weight only cost me 2.2 pounds. This negates needing to add dead weight to the sternpost.



Ron Parigoris

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richard collings

Joined: 08 Jul 2011
Posts: 73
Location: warwickshire england

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 9:23 am Post subject: 914 battery location.

Hi Tony, do as much as you can before you glue the top on that's forward and 

aft , I spent a month doing the interior fitting carpet, side panels etc and 

putting the head lining in was an absolute bugger.

I have my battery fitted in the back under the luggage floor on starboard 

side with Trigg transponder on the port. Access to both is important and 

easy. I used 4 gauge wire to the firewall, and have no problems so far.

Best of luck

Richard



--

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tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 12:33 pm Post subject: 914 battery location.

Hi Richard, 

Thanks for that. I have made a shelf for the battery under the Stbd floor stowage of the baggage bay, if I commit to it, but had not thought of needing access to the transponder unit so was going to keep it down the back with the antenna, and keep the high power cable run short between antenna and unit. Re the battery, it seems like I either consider a lead acid sealed cell battery like my Odyssey PC 680 at 7 kg on the pax footwell, or under baggage bay floor, or I could use a Lithium Polymer Haijiu at less tha 1 kg up front on the footwell. Because I have the 914 and electric fuel pumps, I could even have a dual battery setup at less than 2 kg! The Haijiu another builder has used to crank his 912 S for 4 years.

Regards

Tony Renshaw

Sydney Aussie



Sent from my iPad



[quote] On 15 Feb 2014, at 4:22 am, "richard" <rcollings(at)talktalk.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi Tony, do as much as you can before you glue the top on that's forward and aft , I spent a month doing the interior fitting carpet, side panels etc and putting the head lining in was an absolute bugger.

 I have my battery fitted in the back under the luggage floor on starboard side with Trigg transponder on the port. Access to both is important and easy. I used 4 gauge wire to the firewall, and have no problems so far.

 Best of luck

 Richard

 

 --

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 1:18 pm Post subject: 914 battery location.

Tony, Although I agree entirely with doing as much as you 

sensibly can before sticking the lid on, I would not 

include battery fittings in this. It is more convenient by 

far and saves a deal of weight if your battery can be 

fitted forward (i.e. against the firewall above passenger 

feet, where it needs only minimal strapping & structure to 

fix it). The notion of delibrately looking to have an aft 

C of G seems to me misguided - the further aft the more 

readily a plane will spin. Where you need your C of G to 

be is where any possible loading ofsmall pilot/big pilots; 

full fuel/no fuel; full luggage/no luggage still leaves 

within limits. I would advise leaving deciding on battery 

location until you ve done a trial weighing with other key 

components including paint completed. By all means work 

out how you will run wiring and solidly fix battery in 

either location, but do not commit. For what it is worth 

my mono/914/Woodcomp wobbly prop has worked out extremely 

well with a forward battery.

Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ



On Sat, 15 Feb 2014 07:31:57 +1100

  Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com> wrote:

[quote] 

<tonyrenshaw268(at)gmail.com>

 

 Hi Richard, 

 Thanks for that. I have made a shelf for the battery 

under the Stbd floor stowage of the baggage bay, if I 

commit to it, but had not thought of needing access to 

the transponder unit so was going to keep it down the 

back with the antenna, and keep the high power cable run 

short between antenna and unit. Re the battery, it seems 

like I either consider a lead acid sealed cell battery 

like my Odyssey PC 680 at 7 kg on the pax footwell, or 

under baggage bay floor, or I could use a Lithium Polymer 

Haijiu at less tha 1 kg up front on the footwell. Because 

I have the 914 and electric fuel pumps, I could even have 

a dual battery setup at less than 2 kg! The Haijiu 

another builder has used to crank his 912 S for 4 years.

 Regards

 Tony Renshaw

 Sydney Aussie

 

 

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

> On 15 Feb 2014, at 4:22 am, "richard" 

><rcollings(at)talktalk.net> wrote:

> 

> 

><rcollings(at)talktalk.net>

> 

> Hi Tony, do as much as you can before you glue the top 

>on that's forward and aft , I spent a month doing the 

>interior fitting carpet, side panels etc and putting the 

>head lining in was an absolute bugger.

> I have my battery fitted in the back under the luggage 

>floor on starboard side with Trigg transponder on the 

>port. Access to both is important and easy. I used 4 

>gauge wire to the firewall, and have no problems so far.

> Best of luck

> Richard

> 

> --

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JonathanMilbank

Joined: 14 Apr 2012
Posts: 397
Location: Aberdeen area

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 7:54 am Post subject: Re: 914 battery location.

Tony, I agree with David Joyce and furthermore while my aircraft was a mono-wheel for 16 years, I did temporarily move the battery from the engine bay to inside the rear fuselage. My old classic has the baggage bay bulkhead further forward.



I and three experienced friends who share my aircraft all agreed that having the C of G further aft was a mistake, because the tendency to swing off runway direction on landing was noticeably worse.



Having the original very direct steering tail-wheel under the fin gave us immediate feedback to directional control issues on the ground, which can be masked by the springy links in the more recently extended tail-wheel design.



I know this for sure because I did the first test flights for a friend's 914 mono-wheel aircraft and have flown it for several hours subsequently. Please take the advice to keep the C of G mid-range or a little forward. You won't risk it nosing over when applying the brake as long as you keep the stick fully back. The tail-planes are very powerful.

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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 3:03 pm Post subject: 914 battery location.

Makes sense Tony,

but make sure you get the full 13deg. up elevator.

Graham



        From: jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 16 February 2014, 15:54

 Subject: Re: 914 battery location.

  

 

--> Europa-List message posted by: "jonathanmilbank" <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk (jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk)>



Tony, I agree with David Joyce and furthermore while my aircraft was a mono-wheel for 16 years, I did temporarily move the battery from the engine bay to inside the rear fuselage. My old classic has the baggage bay bulkhead further forward.



I and three experienced friends who share my aircraft all agreed that having the C of G further aft was a mistake, because the tendency to swing off runway direction on landing was noticeably worse.



Having the original very direct steering tail-wheel under the fin gave us immediate feedback to directional control issues on the ground, which can be masked by the springy links in the more recently extended tail-wheel design.



I know this for sure because I did the first test flights for a friend's 914 mono-wheel aircraft and have flown it for several hours subsequently. Please take the  advice to keep the C of G mid-range or a little forward. You won't risk it nosing over when applying the brake as long as you keep the stick fully back. The tail-planes are very powerful.





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.pmatronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" ="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics                    &nbsptronics.com/contribution" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contri================

 

  

  

 [quote][b]

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:29 am Post subject: 914 battery location.

Tony, Have just got back from skiing to be able to lay 

hands on my C of G data:

          I adjusted my C of G to be at 59" AOD and that 

allows any combination of pilot wt 120 to 400lbs/ Fuel 0 

to 110 lbs/ baggage 0 to 80 lbs to give C o G within the 

58 - 62.5" range. The precise calculations will depend on 

your empty wt ( that is a heavy pilot will not shift the C 

o G so far in a heavy plane). It means that I never have 

to do any calculations of wt & balance and do not risk 

flying out of safe balance range. So I would suggest 59" 

is an ideal figure to aim at, and would be interested to 

hear any contrary views.

        Regards, David

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 22:59:53 +0000 (GMT)

  GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Makes sense Tony,

 but make sure you get the full 13deg. up elevator.

 Graham

 

 

 

 

 ________________________________

 From: jonathanmilbank <jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Sunday, 16 February 2014, 15:54

 Subject: Re: 914 battery location.

 

 

 

<jdmilbank(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 

 Tony, I agree with David Joyce and furthermore while my 

aircraft was a mono-wheel for 16 years, I did temporarily 

move the battery from the engine bay to inside the rear 

fuselage. My old classic has the baggage bay bulkhead 

further forward.

 

 I and three experienced friends who share my aircraft 

all agreed that having the C of G further aft was a 

mistake, because the tendency to swing off runway 

direction on landing was noticeably worse.

 

 Having the original very direct steering tail-wheel 

under the fin gave us immediate feedback to directional 

control issues on the ground, which can be masked by the 

springy links in the more recently extended tail-wheel 

design.

 

 I know this for sure because I did the first test 

flights for a friend's 914 mono-wheel aircraft and have 

flown it for several hours subsequently. Please take the 

advice to keep the C of G mid-range or a little forward. 

You won't risk it nosing over when applying the brake as 

long as you keep the stick fully back. The tail-planes 

are very powerful.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.co=                              

-Matt Dralle=========

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