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Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

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mgeans(at)provide.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:26 am Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Has anyone heard of or had exposure to an experimental

assembled and tested engine with the correct combustion

ration (I think is 8 or 8.5:1) that will allow the use of

92 octane auto fuel?  



I met an seasoned hanger flyer once who suggested that I

find the engine that I want to use and then fit an airframe

to it that will suit my needs to alleviate a lot of

headache. 



I think Kitplanes has touched on this in the past possibly

with Mftrs as Superior or Titan (engines not kits as in

Tornado or T-51).  Don't quote me on the Mftr's as I don't

recall who they were only that they would take the auto

fuel.  This could be a promising addition to an airframe

which could pass the time line of avgas extinction.  It

would also be cost effective.  



This might spark (no pun intended) the auto vs avgas "war"

as I've seen such discussions referred to before.



Matt Geans

Builder Wanna-be

apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:54 am Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

I can't help you on the experimental side, but I do know of a pilot

that used to use 91 octane unleaded in his 180hp Lyc O-36A1D (8.5:1

compression) powered Mooney. He sold the aircraft, so I only know what

occured while he had it and was using mogas. Two issues. 1. He was

able to get mogas with MTBE that supposedly was safe for STC'd mogas

use. Obviously that is nearly unobtainable now, and ethanol use is

very widespread, meaning your fuel system better be designed to

withstand ethanol. Even here in PHX he could only get the mogas with

MTBE in the summer, as the fuel was switched to ethanol in the winter.

2. Bigger problem was that mogas eventually disolved the variety of

PRC that Mooney used in 1967 when the plane was built, into a goo, and

the tanks eventually leaked so bad he had to choose between a complete

strip and reseal or go with STC'd bladders. He chose the

bladders..which added 30lbs to his empty wt.

AFAIK he never had any issues with vapor lock nor detonation. However,

that was with standard mags and mag timing. Who knows what would

happen with electronic ignition.



On 11/13/06, mgeans(at)provide.net <mgeans(at)provide.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Has anyone heard of or had exposure to an experimental

 assembled and tested engine with the correct combustion

 ration (I think is 8 or 8.5:1) that will allow the use of

 92 octane auto fuel?



 I met an seasoned hanger flyer once who suggested that I

 find the engine that I want to use and then fit an airframe

 to it that will suit my needs to alleviate a lot of

 headache.



 I think Kitplanes has touched on this in the past possibly

 with Mftrs as Superior or Titan (engines not kits as in

 Tornado or T-51).  Don't quote me on the Mftr's as I don't

 recall who they were only that they would take the auto

 fuel.  This could be a promising addition to an airframe

 which could pass the time line of avgas extinction.  It

 would also be cost effective.



 This might spark (no pun intended) the auto vs avgas "war"

 as I've seen such discussions referred to before.



 Matt Geans

 Builder Wanna-be

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

On Lycomings site it say mogas of 91 octane is OK to use on the "X" series engines.



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an O-360-A-4A.  I think 

it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.  Been using mogas in it for  25 

years now.  It sees 3300 to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient 

myself.    I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with the 

exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.  Ate up all the 

rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Has anyone heard of or had exposure to an experimental

assembled and tested engine with the correct combustion

ration (I think is 8 or 8.5:1) that will allow the use of

92 octane auto fuel?  



I met an seasoned hanger flyer once who suggested that I

find the engine that I want to use and then fit an airframe

to it that will suit my needs to alleviate a lot of

headache. 



I think Kitplanes has touched on this in the past possibly

with Mftrs as Superior or Titan (engines not kits as in

Tornado or T-51).  Don't quote me on the Mftr's as I don't

recall who they were only that they would take the auto

fuel.  This could be a promising addition to an airframe

which could pass the time line of avgas extinction.  It

would also be cost effective.  



This might spark (no pun intended) the auto vs avgas "war"

as I've seen such discussions referred to before.



Matt Geans

Builder Wanna-be

mgeans(at)provide.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Pardon my ignorance, all.



What is the difference between mogas and the auto fuel at

my local Shell station?  None?  Is mogas what the aviation

techies call car gas? IE mo-tor gas-oline?



Matt Geans

Builder Wanna-be

Do Not Archive



On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:21 -0500

 linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>

 

 I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

 O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

  Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

 to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

    I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

 the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

  Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

 the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

 Linn

 do not archive

 

 mgeans(at)provide.net wrote:

 

 >

 >

 >Has anyone heard of or had exposure to an experimental

 >assembled and tested engine with the correct combustion

 >ration (I think is 8 or 8.5:1) that will allow the use

 of

 >92 octane auto fuel?  

 >I met an seasoned hanger flyer once who suggested that I

 >find the engine that I want to use and then fit an

 airframe

 >to it that will suit my needs to alleviate a lot of

 >headache. 

 >I think Kitplanes has touched on this in the past

 possibly

 >with Mftrs as Superior or Titan (engines not kits as in

 >Tornado or T-51).  Don't quote me on the Mftr's as I

 don't

 >recall who they were only that they would take the auto

 >fuel.  This could be a promising addition to an airframe

 >which could pass the time line of avgas extinction.  It

 >would also be cost effective.  

 >This might spark (no pun intended) the auto vs avgas

 "war"

 >as I've seen such discussions referred to before.

 >

 >Matt Geans

 >Builder Wanna-be

 >

 >

 >

 >

 >

 > 

 >

 

 

 

 



 Admin.



 page,

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Motor Gas...or gas used in any gas motor that doesn't fly...things that fly get AVGAS or Jet Fuel (JP-whatever depending on the grade)...MOGAS has been used in airplanes as Linn attests to and many others have used it as well,  but in daze of old and 100LL-a-plenty why would you want to use MOGAS and foul your engine? 



This was how we easily distinguished the difference in my Air Force days, at the motor pool, all the pumps said Mogas...followed later by Unleaded. I laways thought actual MOGAS leaded fuel and low octane (read cheap) like 85 or less. Others may have other origins...that's my take on the name.

Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Matt, you're terribly perceptive.  With your high level of intelligence, you'll make an excellent builder!!!   

 Linn

 

 mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:

 [quote]    	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: <mgeans(at)provide.net> (mgeans(at)provide.net)



Pardon my ignorance, all.



What is the difference between mogas and the auto fuel at

my local Shell station?  None?  Is mogas what the aviation

techies call car gas? IE mo-tor gas-oline?



Matt Geans

Builder Wanna-be

Do Not Archive



On Mon, 13 Nov 2006 16:24:21 -0500

 linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net) wrote:

        	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters

<pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)



I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

 Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

   I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

 Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:



            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: <mgeans(at)provide.net> (mgeans(at)provide.net)



Has anyone heard of or had exposure to an experimental

assembled and tested engine with the correct combustion

ration (I think is 8 or 8.5:1) that will allow the use

      	
     of

            	  Quote: 	
		  92 octane auto fuel?  

I met an seasoned hanger flyer once who suggested that I

find the engine that I want to use and then fit an

      	
     airframe

            	  Quote: 	
		  to it that will suit my needs to alleviate a lot of

headache. 

I think Kitplanes has touched on this in the past

      	
     possibly

            	  Quote: 	
		  with Mftrs as Superior or Titan (engines not kits as in

Tornado or T-51).  Don't quote me on the Mftr's as I

      	
     don't

            	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters

<pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)



I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

 Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

   I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

 Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:



    	
0     --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters

<pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)



I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

 Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

   I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

 Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:



    	
1      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters

<pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)



I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

 Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

   I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

 Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:



    	
2     --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters

<pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)



I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

 Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

   I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

 Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:



    	
3   --> RV10-List message posted by: linn Walters

<pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)



I burn 92 octane in my Pitts.  The engine is an

O-360-A-4A.  I think it's 8.5 or 9.5 ...... can't recall.

 Been using mogas in it for  25 years now.  It sees 3300

to 3400 RPM a lot when I'm trying to disorient myself.

   I've never had any problems with mogas ..... with

the exception of when I got some fuel with alcohol in it.

 Ate up all the rubber diaphragms in the PS-5 carb and

the fuel pump.  Lesson learned.

Linn

do not archive



mgeans(at)provide.net (mgeans(at)provide.net) wrote:



    	
4 [b]

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:39 pm Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Rick wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Motor Gas...or gas used in any gas motor that doesn't fly...things that fly get AVGAS or Jet Fuel (JP-whatever depending on the grade)...MOGAS has been used in airplanes as Linn attests to and many others have used it as well,  but in daze of old and 100LL-a-plenty why would you want to use MOGAS and foul your engine? 



Foul your engine???  The whole reason I went to mogas (auto fuel) is 
	


that I got tired of cleaning the rocks (lead) out of my plugs!!!  At 

that time, using mogas was akin to heresy.  I didn't really want to go 

through the hassle of sneaking my fuel onto the airport and into my 

airplane, but the hassle of the plugs was bigger.



 	  Quote: 	
		  This was how we easily distinguished the difference in my Air Force days, at the motor pool, all the pumps said Mogas...followed later by Unleaded. I laways thought actual MOGAS leaded fuel and low octane (read cheap) like 85 or less. Others may have other origins...that's my take on the name.



Really???  They said mogas???  I have to admit that the only place I put 
	


(military) gas in the vehicles ...... the pump didn't say anything but 

how many gallons!  No labels, no octane rating .... nothing!  There were 

two pumps .... diesel and gasoline.  Life was much simpler then!!!

Linn



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 6:35 am Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Yeah foul the engine, there wasn't enough octane to keep the plugs from fouling in the line trucks...not with lead but carbon, matter of of fact once a month they would close the runways and the line trucks would get a chance to burn some of it off....yeah there was a diesel pump there too but we were talking mogas...left  diesel alone..



Besides Linn....I thought you would comment on when the pumps had "Ethel" on them and you could watch the gas swirl arounf the glass top for a nickel a gallon  



Rick S.

40185



do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Hey!  Don't laugh.  I can't remember 5 cents per gallon (it was 30 cents

when I went to college), but I sure did like to watch my uncle's pumps and

the spinning whirl in the glass bulb.  I also liked to climb on top of the

tank trucks and watch them get filled with #2 oil.  Such was entertainment.

John J



Do not archive



--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: Lyc Knockoff 92 octane compatable

Rick wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Yeah foul the engine, there wasn't enough octane to keep the plugs from fouling in the line trucks...not with lead but carbon, matter of of fact once a month they would close the runways and the line trucks would get a chance to burn some of it off....yeah there was a diesel pump there too but we were talking mogas...left  diesel alone..



Besides Linn....I thought you would comment on when the pumps had "Ethel" on them and you could watch the gas swirl arounf the glass top for a nickel a gallon  



Well, those didn't say ethel (ethyl) either.  Just had a red star on the 
	


light on top.  Turning the crank hurt my shoulder, though!    Sure 

was an improvement getting electricity out in the boonies!  'Course, I 

didn't have too many nickels back then either.

Linn



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Rick S.

40185



do not archive

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