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The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W
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sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:03 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

I'll see you this fall Tim for that stick time. 



Plan on getting the rating, but plan on being flying first.  Was  

hoping that I didn't have to pass a test first before I could stick  

two Cheltons in there in place of a six-pack. 



-Sean #40303



On May 25, 2007, at 3:25 PM, Tim Olson wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Sean,



 Don't Panic...you'll be fine.  Considering you're already looking

 at the higher end stuff, your biggest concern will be to try to

 get some stick time behind them so you can analyze the layout you'd

 want.  Also, tap into as much knowledge from guys like Stein as you

 can....he's really got some good ideas if you let HIM sway you

 into panel layouts as opposed to coming up with some screwy

 layout and trying to make him build it.  He's a great resource.



 That's not to say you wouldn't benefit from the rating...but

 you've already got your sights set high.



 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 do not archive

 Sean Stephens wrote:

> 

> <sean(at)stephensville.com>

> On May 25, 2007, at 2:26 PM, William Curtis wrote:

>> Just as "Friends don't let friends drive drunk",  I'd also  

>> suggest that "Friends should not let VFR friends build IFR  

>> panels."  Even after you have the rating, you really need time  

>> "in the system" to determine what is really important.  You see  

>> some panels supposedly built for IFR and you know the person who  

>> designed it dose not actually fly IFR.

> What?  You're telling me that just because I don't have my ticket  

> *yet* that I shouldn't build a panel for when I *do* get it?

> My currently VFR skills will have an IFR panel including Chelton/ 

> Op + associated *stuff*.  The EFIS can be used for VFR too and I  

> don't have to spend a lot of $$time$$ adding *stuff* when my IFR  

> ticket is mailed.

> Confused and maybe missing the point.

> -Sean #40303

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:26 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Great statement Bobby.  Now here is a new question that goes to the

heart of Amateur Built (current rules).



Does a total change-out of engine type, prop type or major alteration to

an airframe (Down the Road) require a revisit by a DAR or PAI?  Or does

the repairman have the latitude to alter the engine/prop/panel from

basic VFR to EFIS/IFR without a trail of paperwork and new set of eyes?



What latitude for modification is legal and appropriate for a kit

designed and tested VAN's RV-10?



"Round Two" - No bio required  "Do you feel Lucky?"



John Cox A&P with IA

40600



--

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

One of the local DAR's visited our last EAA chapter meetings and if I

remember correctly, engine and props were on the list of major mods.  You

would have to reenter your "phase 1".  But I was a little unclear about how

to do that.  It did not sound like you would be visited again, but would

need a new program letter.....but I really wasn't paying to much attention

at that time since I never plan to changing the engine or prop......



Rene' Felker

N423CF

40322

801-721-6080



--

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

 	  AV8ORJWC wrote: 	
		  I will let the experienced IFR pilots chime in on Vertical Stacking

versus Horizontal Stacking and its importance being placed as high on

the panel as practical.  Not withholding the importance of a Back Seat

WSO with the armament screen between his/her legs.

John

-- 	


I would appreciate comments about this phase of layout also.

Past experience is KC-135's and E-3's.  No glass. 

I am thinking about 2 GRT's on the left side.  I have not measured things yet but I believe that due to their size, I can situate them either H or V.



Only focusing on position and not considering other items that need to fit into the panel, what do those flying with 2 panels think?

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:00 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

I've got almost identical plans as John's plans at the moment.  I'm just

waiting for Osh to get some hands on experience with the booth demos.



I'm also keeping an eye on MGL and their new 10" Odyssey due at OSH and

WTD's offering.  Although WTD is a little more pricey at the moment.



I am IFR rated and really like both Chelton and OP Technologies.

Unfortunately, my budget won't allow it at the moment.  Something about the

wife wanting to remodel the house and two kids in college.



Sounds like we got the makings of a large RV-10 consortium to make the

rounds at Osh.  It would be humorous for a group of us to visit the vendors

as a horde. Even better, develop a common script for an IFR demo to give to

the vendors beforehand and tell them we expect to see the demo script in

their booth.  



Bob

684



--

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:06 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

I have two GRT screens and a CMX 200 (picture attached with MX 20 before 

trade in).  The top screen is a GRT (PFD) and the left bottom screen is a 

GRT screen.  Under the top GRT screen is the MX 20.  The lower screens (GRT 

screen and CMX 200) are not all that easy to see.  I'm 6' and find myself 

looking down at the lower screens at an angle that seems to wash out the 

screens (not all that bad but when I lower the viewing angle the screens 

look much better.   Laying out the panel my thought was to keep the screens 

in front of the left seat as much as possible.  May not have been such a 

good idea.  When I redo the panel with the new GRT hi res screens I'm 

thinking I may go with a horizontal layout that gets the screens higher.

Mark

N410MR

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 16:23:29 -0700

AV8ORJWC wrote:

 > I will let the experienced IFR pilots chime in on Vertical Stacking

 > versus Horizontal Stacking and its importance being placed as high on

 > the panel as practical.  Not withholding the importance of a Back Seat

 > WSO with the armament screen between his/her legs.

 > John

 > --

I would appreciate comments about this phase of layout also.

Past experience is KC-135's and E-3's.  No glass.

I am thinking about 2 GRT's on the left side.  I have not measured things 

yet but I believe that due to their size, I can situate them either H or V.

Only focusing on position and not considering other items that need to fit 

into the panel, what do those flying with 2 panels think?

--------

Gary Blankenbiller

RV10 - # 40674

(N410GB reserved)

do not archive

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114829#114829

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bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 4:26 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

I actually think that using akzo as a primer is the best way, what do you

think?



Bob K



--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

bob.kaufmann wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		      	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "bob.kaufmann" <bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net> (bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net)



I actually think that using akzo as a primer is the best way, what do you

think? 	
 	
 

 I tried it and got too many misfires.  Went back to red ball.   

 Linn

 do not archive

 [quote]   [quote]  Bob K  --

Bill Schlatterer

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:37 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

OK, well here are a couple of thoughts on the "should I or shouldn't I build

IFR" decision.  It's all a chain of connected decisions.  A) If you are

routinely traveling any distance or into a heavy traffic area, you want the

option to be able to file IFR for traffic and ease of fitting into the

traffic flow.  Don't have to but you will like it if you do!  B) Lots of

eyes on you.  C) Also there are MANY VFR days that are crummy flying days

because of haze and cloud but if you want to go somewhere, to be able to

file IFR /G and go is wonderful. AND D)  you will be a lot better pilot

after you get your IFR ticket.  I thought that was a joke until I did it and

it's just true.  Few folks really learn anything until they NEED to know and

getting the ticket requires you to upgrade your weather management skills,

ATC system skills, risk assessment, AND your appreciation of how good you

really are when it hits the fan.  Understanding how easy it is to die in the

soup had made me a lot better pilot and much more critical of my decision

making process.



 	  Quote: 	
		  > So how about equipment?    Here was my thought process after a lot of IFR

hours in a nice spam can.  I like flying VFR/IFR which means flying on an
	


IFR plan but looking outside instead of inside to see the sights.  I love to

be able to dial in an altitude and have the plane climb or descend and

capture it.  I love to drive the plane with the heading bug. I wanted to be

able to fly a coupled approach from the final approach course( don't care

about a full approach, hold, etc cause it almost never happens that way).

The funny part is that I wanted the plane to do all that so that I could

look outside for the view and other traffic.  



 	  Quote: 	
		  > That lead me to the EFIS and Autopilot decisions:   a) GRT because they

are airplane folks writing code and not computer guys learning to fly B) GRT
	


systems are tightly integrated to Tru-Trak Auto pilots and Jim Younts is

here in Arkansas  AND builds a fabulous AP c) the GRT system is less

expensive than a 6 pack with an HIS and heading bug d) the GRT and TT VSVG

allow you to fly the way I like to fly with altitude preselect and capture.

HIS/OBS indicators built-in.  D) Customer support and knowledge about

systems is 10+++



 	  Quote: 	
		  > That lead me to the NAV/Comm Decision :  A) Gotta have a Garmin 430

because it is IFR certified and you need that to fly an approach at the end
	


of the trip b) it is reasonably priced and can be kept current on a

reasonable price basis  C) WAAS is gravy and I like gravy.  D) Great NAV and

Great COMM and you need at least one great one of each  e)  430 does a great

job of driving the TT AP



 	  Quote: 	
		  > That leads to the On-Board Wx decision:   I simply can't explain how

different flying in any weather is when you have a Gods-eye view of
	


everything around you, full Metars at airports 360 degrees around you. Etc.

I wouldn't go VFR without it anymore.  Soooo, I bought the Garmin 396 so

that I can take it to the spam can, travel with friends, play with it in the

house, whatever.  I really really like NOT having it in the panel. I am

lucky to also be able to drive a Baron with on-board radar and I never turn

it on, complete waste of money. Always take the Garmin.



 	  Quote: 	
		  > Other IFR related decisions:  1) TPX330 because I wanted to see traffic

displayed on the GRT screens, 2) P-Mag and Slick because I wanted electronic
	


ignition but was "skeared" of not having a mag if everything died. 3) Garmin

396 with Wx (see above) 4) full 2 1/4 analog Alt, AS, Compass, with

electronic T&B backup gauges 5) ICOM A24 radio in my flight bag in case

everything electronic dies (never used it)  6) AeroElectric Nuckell-Head

Z13/8 electric system with Heavy duty everything



This allows me to fly the way I like 99% of the time and fits my Worst worst

worst case IFR scenario:  Flying along at night in the soup, everything

electronic craps out despite all the redundant systems, what to do?  I fly

the plane on analog for a minute, (it's trimmed so nothing should change),

switch the Garmin to the artificial panel as a back up, turn 180 and head

home or to VFR, pull out my ICOM and shout for help!  That's my most basic

TU "back-up/out" plan but even that is not a low risk exit, but at least I

have found my own balance between risk, mission, dollars, and safety.



My opinion and it's only that on the most basic IFR ride is this.  GRT

system (or one that has and HIS and heading bug NAV to AP), basic AP of your

choice that will track NAV, GNS430 not WAAS or at least the SL40(?) NAV/COM,

basic analog backups, other usual stuff of choice.  I think if you price it

out, you will be within about 5K of a nice VFR ride and that's not much

compared to the total cost of the airplane.  This gets you enough to be

safe, get your ticket, fly great VFR/IFR and be very safe as long as you

make good decisions.  BUT the first thing I would add is a Garmin 496 with

Wx.



Funny, this just moved from the Perfect IFR Panel to the Minimal IFR Panel ?

How'd dat happen"



Hope this helps!



Bill S

--

Bill Schlatterer

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Second the comment on Stein, he sells it all, flown it all, and gives a

straight answer.  I bought a lot of stuff from him and he sent it to me

before I sent him the check,... Says it all for me.  He is a great source

for technical data on the various systems.



Bill S 



--

Bill Schlatterer

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:06 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Gary, mine is a 7 panel so it is smaller than the 10 but you can see how

they fit in this picture. If I had a third panel, I would dump the EIS

display and put it on a hidden sub panel.  This is an Affordable Modular

Panel.  I "might" put one of the Garmin docking panels in the right side but

am thinking of just putting one of the bigger panel GPS units (AVMAP EKP-4)

on the right to entertain the passenger  



I like the radio stack high and easy to get to so because that is typically

what pulls the eye from the EFIS unless you have the higher end units where

you do it all from the EFIS itself.  Not sure vert or hor makes me a lot of

difference.  How does it flow to the hand and eye would be my consideration.



Hope this helps



Bill S



--

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Deems Davis

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 925

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Bill Schlatterer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   -........ Few folks really learn anything until they NEED to know and

 getting the ticket requires you to upgrade your weather management skills,

 ATC system skills, risk assessment, AND your appreciation of how good you

 really are when it hits the fan.  Understanding how easy it is to die in the

 soup had made me a lot better pilot and much more critical of my decision

 making process.



   


	


AMEN !!!!!!!!



Deems Davis # 406

Finishing - ( A Misnomer ! )

http://deemsrv10.com/

IFR, but NOT current

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Here is my panel and thoughts.....how I got here.



500+ hours

Commercial/instrument

Very little actual IMC, mostly penetrations, letdowns and a hand full of

real full approaches.

Of all my choices, I have only flown behind the 430.



1. Dual GRT, wanted it for the interface with the 430 and TT.

2. TT AP, great reviews and will fly profiles from the GRT....

3.  Backup instruments, AS, TT ADI, and Altimeter...in a pinch that will do

(I lost a vacuum pump over Seattle once, that was all I had left in the spam

can, no gyro vectors till I punched out of the bottom) 

4.  Blue Mountain, CDI function for the 430, but really will be used by my

wife so she has her own set of buttons.  Not really planning on it being the

backup.....wrong side of panel.  But, could be used if necessary.

5.  DVD player/screen......wife, two more for the kids.

6.  430 IFR GPS, used in current spam can, know and like interface.

7.  SL30, wanted two radios, don't want to deal with hand held.  Had to

after an alternator failure while VFR out of Palm Springs.....my assessment

was it just was not very effective and in a pinch I would want it to be the

very last resort.  I still carry the handheld with me.

8.  327 for transponder, decided to wait for ADS-B, might have made the

wrong choice.

9.  GRT EIS, good reviews and integrates with EFIS.......



I started serious work (thinking and purchasing) on my panel in Dec 05.  Due

to my choice of hardware by the time I got around to ordering it was mid

2006.  Worked almost final layout with Stein and then awaited

parts.......panel completed and in my garage last week, minus the TT ADI,

not making the smaller ones yet.



Stein has been great, but he is in demand........



Rene'

801-721-6080

--

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KiloPapa

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 7:46 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Inexperienced or non-IFR pilots should not be giving advise to the

 masses in how to build panels or selection of avionics components.  I

 whole-heartedly concur with your advise.

 (snipped)



 John


	


Let's not get carried away with this "who knows best" business.  Opinions 

abound and builders have their favorites.  I am capable of sorting out the 

wheat from the chaff and I'll bet most on the list are.  This lengthy 

discussion has brought up alot of good points and much info has been 

revealed just in the course of the exchange.  Just because a person has a 

Contractor's license does not make them a good builder any more than an 

Instrument rating makes a one qualified to advise on what I need to put in 

my panel.



 	  Quote: 	
		  



So, do we have to take a test before we comment, or do we just submit a bio 

with every comment?



Rene' Felker

N423CF

40322


	


Apparently so.  Only those truly qualified and approved by the King need 

give advice or comment.



Kevin

40494

tail/empennage



do not archive

_________________
Kevin
40494

do not archive

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:59 pm Post subject: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Here is a little more background to my question.

It has been many years since I professionally flew but my 2k hours of instrument time  was behind what I call steam ADI and HSIâ€™s gages because of their age.

The ADI was on top and is where you centered your vision or cross-check.  It was right in front of you and as you rolled, it was centered in your vision.  The ideal would be thought of as the heads up displays you see in current fighters. Then your check for your horizontal awareness would be by looking down.  Airspeed and altitude would be by looking left and right.

Now we come to the current age of glass instruments where I have no current experience.



 	  mritter509(at)msn.com wrote: 	
		  I have two GRT screens and a CMX 200.  The top screen is a GRT (PFD) and the left bottom screen is a 

GRT screen.  Under the top GRT screen is the MX 20.  The lower screens (GRT 

screen and CMX 200) are not all that easy to see.  I'm 6' and find myself 

looking down at the lower screens at an angle that seems to wash out the 

screens (not all that bad but when I lower the viewing angle the screens 

look much better.   Laying out the panel my thought was to keep the screens 

in front of the left seat as much as possible.  May not have been such a 

good idea.  When I redo the panel with the new GRT hi res screens I'm 

thinking I may go with a horizontal layout that gets the screens higher.

Mark

N410MR

	


Mark, these are exactly the concerns that I have.  With all the flexibility we now have with these new EFIS systems you can do split screens and combos with many of them.  But when you start flying what is the best layout for your panel cross-check.  Glare and viewing angles could be potential problems and that is why I am asking.

 	  Bill Schlatterer wrote: 	
		  Gary, mine is a 7 panel so it is smaller than the 10 but you can see how

they fit in this picture. If I had a third panel, I would dump the EIS

display and put it on a hidden sub panel.  This is an Affordable Modular

Panel.  I "might" put one of the Garmin docking panels in the right side but

am thinking of just putting one of the bigger panel GPS units (AVMAP EKP-4)

on the right to entertain the passenger  



I like the radio stack high and easy to get to so because that is typically

what pulls the eye from the EFIS unless you have the higher end units where

you do it all from the EFIS itself.  Not sure vert or hor makes me a lot of

difference.  How does it flow to the hand and eye would be my consideration.

Hope this helps

Bill S

-- 	


Bill, are you flying yet?  In the real world cross-checking, is the side by side cross-check as fast as the up down cross-check?  If there is someone with experience in both, I think their input would be very valuable to many of us still in the layout mode.



 	  rene(at)felker.com wrote: 	
		  Here is my panel and thoughts.....how I got here.



500+ hours

Commercial/instrument

Very little actual IMC, mostly penetrations, letdowns and a hand full of

real full approaches.

.

.

.

I started serious work (thinking and purchasing) on my panel in Dec 05.  Due

to my choice of hardware by the time I got around to ordering it was mid

2006.  Worked almost final layout with Stein and then awaited

parts.......panel completed and in my garage last week, minus the TT ADI,

not making the smaller ones yet.



Stein has been great, but he is in demand........



Rene'

-- 	


Rene,  it is spooky how close the left 2/3's of your panel is to what I have visualized in my mind at this point in time.  After finalizing the vertical or horizontal visually, the next concern is the â€˜button pressing and knob twirlingâ€™.  Is vertical or horizontal better?  Are your hands distracting and interfering with your vision of the displays as you enter/update the systems?

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:10 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Bob your concept of a meaningful IFR demo script for equipment in the

RV-10 would be of value.  Common denominator, basic features, same

target audience and reinforcement of the principals mentioned here. Only

80 flying aircraft, 639 yet to be completed with 35% IFR rated pilots.

That is over 200 viable customers walking the same walk and asking to

talk the same talk from captive salespeople.



Great idea. One month, Three weeks and six days.



John

600



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:38 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

On layout, I will just give a couple of observations.

My initial thoughts before I did the panel were that looking at

some planes, even airliners, the over/under arrangement would be

more normal like a standard "T" 6-pack arrangement.  I was worried

about putting my 3 screens horizontally across the panel.

In practice, I found that without stretching the panel lower, it

was very hard to put 3 screens in a panel without going horizontally,

and I personally prefer a flat aluminum panel because some of the funky

curves and trimmings that make the fiberglass ones very sweet looking

also take up some of the space that you can use to mount things...or

the ledges hide buttons or labels or make switches harder to place.

Not in every case, but that was just my thought.

So I spent a lot of time arranging mine on a mock-up and studying it

closely.  Every single item had thought put into where it would be,

in relation to my scan, my hands, my co-pilot, and so on.  When I

was done, I ended up being very very happy and was now convinced that

horizontal was at least do-able.

Then, I got the opportunity to fly a panel with the same brand of

gear, but laid out over/under.  That actually served to drive home

that I felt I had it "right" according to my best wishes.  The lower

screen on the extended lower panel was much further from a comfortable

scan.  It kept you looking down, which is precisely where you will

find it the most likely to set off your mental unbalance...remember

where they have you look before putting you into IFR training

unusual attitudes?   Also, that lower screen was much less shielded

by the glareshield, and hence it wasn't as easy to see in the sun

as the one above it.  That little glareshield ledge does indeed help

block *glare*.   I'm now dead sold personally on the horizontal

arrangement.

 From a radio stack perspective, I found that just Right of the

center rib was plenty accessible, and totally visible for both

people in front.  Also, my center screen is very usable for the

co-pilot and they could fly off any of the 3 screens pretty easily

if needed.

The horizontal layout allowed me to pack it all into the panel, keep

every major piece of equipment as high as possible along the

horizontal scan, and keep your eyes as minimally directed downward

as possible.

I hesitated to even reply to the thread on positioning because although

I am now very set in my ways as to how I like the layout, I'm also not

a "my way or the highway" (in the sky... ) kind of guy.  I believe

that if you have a reason why some arrangement fits your needs better,

that's your decision and who am I to argue.  People have different

needs.   That said, very few people would realistically want to do

anything that would damage an effective scan, so I'd advise taking

the time to plan out as efficient an arrangement as possible.  Mock

it up, and, one thing I did a lot of was asking others more

knowledgeable than myself for their opinion.  I'm very happy with

the layout now, and about the only thing I'd change if I were cutting

aluminum again is to not have put an elevator trim switch on the panel

at all, because the sticks are good enough for me.

You're doing a great thing by asking, and thinking about critically, but

at the same time, don't expect anyone to be able to tell you exactly

what to do...in the end, you're the builder.  Feel free to send the

list a panel layout as you get ones you want to bounce off people, and

I'm sure you'll get critiques that will help.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

orchidman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 AV8ORJWC wrote:

> I will let the experienced IFR pilots chime in on Vertical Stacking

>  versus Horizontal Stacking and its importance being placed as high

> on the panel as practical.  Not withholding the importance of a

> Back Seat WSO with the armament screen between his/her legs. John 

> --

 I would appreciate comments about this phase of layout also. Past

 experience is KC-135's and E-3's.  No glass. I am thinking about 2

 GRT's on the left side.  I have not measured things yet but I believe

 that due to their size, I can situate them either H or V.

 Only focusing on position and not considering other items that need

 to fit into the panel, what do those flying with 2 panels think?

 -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not

 archive

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=114829#114829

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2881

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Don't get too frustrated and walk away from the conversation.

Personally, I think one amazing thing about this thread has been the

absolutely great participation and lack of flames with a couple

of exceptions...we've actually been able to cover quite a bit of

good info with minimal body slams...it's an impressive group of

people we have here, because in many other forums we'd be way

off in the weeds by now.



Tim

KiloPapa wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 Apparently so.  Only those truly qualified and approved by the King need 

 give advice or comment.

 

 Kevin

 40494

 tail/empennage

 

 do not archive

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 4:40 am Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Kevin,



Remember Kings are mere figureheads in most developed countries and are not 

to be taken seriously.  There is a vast amount of knowledge out there and we 

need to keep it flowing.  Take the info, do your own due diligence and 

discard the rest.



We don't need to be protected or anointed by Kings.  Keep posting folks.



Mark

N410MR

om: "KiloPapa" <kilopapa(at)antelecom.net>

 	  Quote: 	
		  Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Re: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 20:46:09 -0700






>

>

>Inexperienced or non-IFR pilots should not be giving advise to the

>masses in how to build panels or selection of avionics components.  I

>whole-heartedly concur with your advise.

>(snipped)

>

>John



Let's not get carried away with this "who knows best" business.  Opinions 

abound and builders have their favorites.  I am capable of sorting out the 

wheat from the chaff and I'll bet most on the list are.  This lengthy 

discussion has brought up alot of good points and much info has been 

revealed just in the course of the exchange.  Just because a person has a 

Contractor's license does not make them a good builder any more than an 

Instrument rating makes a one qualified to advise on what I need to put in 

my panel.



>

>

>So, do we have to take a test before we comment, or do we just submit a 

>bio with every comment?

>

>Rene' Felker

>N423CF

>40322



Apparently so.  Only those truly qualified and approved by the King need 

give advice or comment.



Kevin

40494

tail/empennage



do not archive


	


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Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the i’m Initiative now. 

It’s free. http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_MAY07

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 26, 2007 6:53 am Post subject: The Perfect Panel...how to decide - was GNS-430W

I am still months away from flying and really can not tell if the button

pushing will block the field of view.  My thoughts there were to put the

radio stack in the middle because I did not want to "reach" for anything and

to get the 430 close to the main EFIS screen.  After some thought I decided

that the AP really was not in a great position, but that it would work from

there and would only be a cross body reach to engage, once engaged I would

be using my left had to control.



As far as horizontal or vertical?  With the EFIS I felt like placement of

the primary nav radio, 430, and the primary EFIS screen was more important.

Right now I will have a relatively small diamond to scan to see both nav

screens (GRT and 430) and both primary and secondary attitude instruments.



As far as the vertical scan, disorientation issue is concerned, I am

concerned, just as I am today in the 182.  Tilting of the head either

sideways or up and down can lead to disorientation. I will not know until I

get it in the plane and fly, but I think I will be able to scan my primary

and secondary instruments with little or no head movement.  Something I

practice today in the 182....



Rene'

801-721-6080

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