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Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit

 
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poneill(at)irealms.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:09 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

I just noticed that Van's is offering an AHRS mounting kit for the 10:
AHRS Mount Kit for the RV-10
Part Number = IF AHRS MOUNT-10

Description

Mount for Attitude Heading Reference System unit.
Provides parts to mount the AHRS unit for either the Garmin G900XT or the
Grand Rapids EFIS. Locates unit behind baggage bulkhead on RV-7, RV-9, and
RV-10.

Has anyone received one of these or better yet, any photos? I'm not getting
a clear picture of what it entails from the illustration on Van's web store.
It would be nice to skip fabricating an AHRS shelf.

I'm not sure which AHRS units are used by Garmin or GRT. I am trying to
figure out if it will accommodate the Xbow NAV 420 AHRS unit that ships from
OP. I also want to make sure it does not conflict with the ELT/Strobe PS
tray.

Best Regards,
Patrick #40715


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Eric_Kallio



Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 149
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

I just bought one last week to see how it worked myself. It is a simple shelf that looks to be plenty sturdy. It comes with a rib that mounts to one of the floor stiffeners meaning you have to drill out 9 rivets. The tray then mounts to that rib and the bell crank platform aft of the battery. It has match drilled nutplate attach holes for the GRT and Garmin AHRS, but it can easily be modified to fit others. I hope to get some time in the shop this week and get it installed. When I get it done I will post a picture for you and see if I can get the instructions scanned.

Eric Kallio
40518 Floors and fuel system


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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:08 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

<<IMG_0911.JPG>> <<IMG_0912.JPG>> <<IMG_0913.JPG>>
<<IMG_0922.JPG>> <<IMG_0923.JPG>> <<IMG_0907.JPG>>
<<IMG_0908.JPG>> <<IMG_0909.JPG>> <<IMG_0910.JPG>>
I was working with Garmin here in Olathe on this bracket and
testing it using my RV-10. Here are all the pictures I provided to
Garmin during this process. Van's actually created the bracket with the
feedback that was provided my Scott (Garmin) and myself.
By the way, I don't have either AHRS, but this bracket still
makes an excellent support for a 1" x 8" board when you need to crawl
back into the tail. We are still working on the bracket for the
Magnometer, problem is finding a good location that is free of magnetic
interference to the standards which Garmin has set for the Certified
installations.

Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
N519RV


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2314

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:29 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

With the plans that come with it, how far away from the battery and
any servos does it place the AHRS. You'd want to put as much
distance between as possible, trying to get at least
20". Just wondered what the plans spec.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Eric_Kallio wrote:
Quote:


I just bought one last week to see how it worked myself. It is a
simple shelf that looks to be plenty sturdy. It comes with a rib that
mounts to one of the floor stiffeners meaning you have to drill out 9
rivets. The tray then mounts to that rib and the bell crank platform
aft of the battery. It has match drilled nutplate attach holes for
the GRT and Garmin AHRS, but it can easily be modified to fit others.
I hope to get some time in the shop this week and get it installed.
When I get it done I will post a picture for you and see if I can get
the instructions scanned.

Eric Kallio 40518 Floors and fuel system




Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=145336#145336



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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2314

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:53 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Ah, you answered my question....so, this bracket is truly an AHRS
bracket, not intended for use with magnetometers, so for some
AHRS such as the Crossbow, this would not necessarily be in a
good area, but if you use a pinpoint, or a GRT, or G900, it would
probably work fine for the AHRS itself. That makes sense. It seemed
too close to magnetics for a magnetometer.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Doerr, Ray R [NTK] wrote:
Quote:
<<IMG_0911.JPG>> <<IMG_0912.JPG>> <<IMG_0913.JPG>>
<<IMG_0922.JPG>> <<IMG_0923.JPG>> <<IMG_0907.JPG>>
<<IMG_0908.JPG>> <<IMG_0909.JPG>> <<IMG_0910.JPG>>
I was working with Garmin here in Olathe on this bracket and
testing it using my RV-10. Here are all the pictures I provided to
Garmin during this process. Van's actually created the bracket with the
feedback that was provided my Scott (Garmin) and myself.
By the way, I don't have either AHRS, but this bracket still
makes an excellent support for a 1" x 8" board when you need to crawl
back into the tail. We are still working on the bracket for the
Magnometer, problem is finding a good location that is free of magnetic
interference to the standards which Garmin has set for the Certified
installations.



Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
N519RV



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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:48 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Very nice. Are you also going to be working with Garmin and Van's on a
magnetometer mount?

BTW, does anybody know if Van's is still shipping the kits with the TruTrak
Pitch Servo mount that is for the old servo, not the one with the torque
enhancer? There are a TON of those brackets in the trash around the world
right now, I think.

Do not archive.

Jesse Saint
Saint Aviation, Inc.
jesse(at)saintaviation.com
www.saintaviation.com
Cell: 352-427-0285
Fax: 815-377-3694

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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 8:10 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Yes, I am still working with Garmin on the Magnometer mounting
bracket, but this is one which Garmin will be producing. He had on made
for the aft deck, but with the cables for the elevator trim in there and
my ELT and was OK for Static Error but the Dynamic error (moving things
like Elevator, Trim, Lights on, etc) is where it was out of tolerance.
We are still working on it.
Attached is a picture of one location we tested, but will not
work. The round piece is the Garmin Compass module.
Thank You
Ray Doerr
40250
N519RV

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kearney(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:05 pm    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Hi Tim

I have been reading this thread with interest as I am starting to look ahead
to my avionics suite. I plan, at this point to install a Blue Mountain EFIS
2 with an EFIS lite as a backup. Looking at the documentation, they suggest
that the magnometer be at least 24 inches away from any ferrous material
(bolts cables etc). They suggest placing it in either the tail cone or the
wing.

Looking at the trail cone, would it not make sense to mount the magnometer
on a bracket attached to one of the bulkheads?

A related question; where have you and others been mounting you GPS
antennas? I was wondering if locating the antenna somewhere on the top of
the canopy (on the inside) was practical.

Inquiring minds need to know

Les Kearney
40643 Frustrated in the fuse..


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pilotdds(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 4:43 pm    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

GPS ant on the glare shield has worked flawlessly for my 430.


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kearney(at)shaw.ca
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:01 pm    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Tim et al

Reading my post I realized I left out one key point. When mounting on the
bulkhead, I was wondering if it should be mounted high on the bulkhead near
the top skin (as opposed to on the floor).

Cheers

Les

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dav1111(at)suddenlink.net
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:36 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

I originally built a shelf across the longerons behind the baggage bulkhead for a shelf to mount duel GRT AHRS and duel magnometers (AHRS centered and magnometers left and right sides). Due to interference from the battery (confirmed by GRT at OSH2007) I had to move the pilot's side magnometer to the wing tip. I just clecod on a 90 degree bracket to the wingtip rib (one cleco), leveled it, drilled holes for pop rivets, and mounted the magnometer. Now everything works great.

Russ Daves
N710RV #40044 - 185+ hours

I have been reading this thread with interest as I am starting to look ahead
to my avionics suite. I plan, at this point to install a Blue Mountain EFIS
2 with an EFIS lite as a backup. Looking at the documentation, they suggest
that the magnometer be at least 24 inches away from any ferrous material
(bolts cables etc). They suggest placing it in either the tail cone or the
wing.

Looking at the trail cone, would it not make sense to mount the magnometer
on a bracket attached to one of the bulkheads?

A related question; where have you and others been mounting you GPS
antennas? I was wondering if locating the antenna somewhere on the top of
the canopy (on the inside) was practical.

Inquiring minds need to know

Les Kearney
40643 Frustrated in the fuse..

[quote][b]


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Tim Olson



Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2314

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:45 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

I think within reason, you're basically right that keeping it high
will keep it away from sources of magnetic interference. It might
depend a bit on what AHRS you go with too, as some are able to
calibrate out some magnetic effects better than others. You just
want plenty enough distance to guarantee not being affected.
I'd actually recommend NOT mounting any location until you have
the actual AHRS and instrument in hand to do some testing.
In my install, with my hardware, I first put together a rough
shelf and then tested the Magnetometer and AHRS by doing things
like:

Turning on and off the master solenoid
Turning on and off and operating the Autopilot
Operating the Elevator Trim system
Moving the elevator controls and rudder pedals

You should not see any heading or attitude changes when doing
these things if you have a good location for your magnetometer.
(a stand-alone AHRS *should* be unaffected if there is no
integral Magnetometer)

On mine, I was able to pull up a calibration page that reads some
of the magnetic and positional information to many decimals of
precision, so I was able to watch that all move and see exactly
what kind of numerical effect I was causing as well.

At any rate, this is surely one of those things that you'll want
to spend some good time verifying once you have the hardware. As
Ray already pointed out, Garmin even had their issues with a
mounting in the tail (although that was much further back
than what I did), and they found the location unacceptable. So
it's not something to just slap on a bulkhead and call good.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
Les Kearney wrote:
[quote]

Tim et al

Reading my post I realized I left out one key point. When mounting on the
bulkhead, I was wondering if it should be mounted high on the bulkhead near
the top skin (as opposed to on the floor).

Cheers

Les



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poneill(at)irealms.com
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:11 pm    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Thanks much for the pictures Ray! That helps a lot.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can use that as the AHRS station. The xbow
NAV 420 has an integrated 3-axis magnetometer. I can imagine the grief
trying to situate it 6 inches from a main battery wire. So it's back to the
shelf plan for me.

But that might be another useful station for something else. I'll have to
keep that bracket in mind for the future.

By the way, how are you prepping the inside of the tail cone surfaces? Is
that all just alodine? Looks great!

Anyone else currently flying with OP EFIS? Any location success stories or
problems with the NAV 420 AHRS?

Best Regards,
Patrick #40715

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rv10(at)sinkrate.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Rob Hickman of advanced flight systems has posted a picture in his support
forums of his magnetometer install location on the 10 they are building.
There is a thread that specifically talks about magnetometer locations as
well.

Picture:
http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=magnetometermountingrv1ij8.jpg
(popup adds on this one)

Forum thread:
http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10

-Ben
#40579

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Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:36 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

That nice gold finish is PPG Armor Grip. I think it is 900 and
901.

Thank You
Ray Doerr
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:39 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

This is the exact same position that we found was the best
location for the Garmin unit when installed in the Tail area.

Thank You
Ray Doerr
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jump2(at)sbcglobal.net
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:03 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Here is my mount for the 420 ahrs.
I can build a shelf on the four posts if I need to get it 6 inchs higher away from battery and servo. I'm a good 20 " away now. Will try to demag the cable if not see about stainless.
Pat Thyssen

"Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
That nice gold finish is PPG Armor Grip. I think it is 900 and
901.

Thank You
Ray Doerr
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billderou(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Two successful Xbow 420 installations:

Since the Xbow 420 incorporates orientation sensors and a three axis magnetometer we located the unit close to the origin of all three axis as practical but moved outside the hard iron magnetic fields.

We constructed a flat plate approx .125 thick and installed it where the rear seat shoulder harness cable is bolted to the upper longeron. It spans the fuselage width wise and we relocated the seat belt cable to the front lip of this plate. Used the same three holes on each side that was originally for the shoulder harness anchor. Also over engineered it with an .063 Tee running laterally to stiffen any up and down vibrations. The NAV420 is on the top and centered laterally.

I measured the magnetic fields around the elevator trim motor and the elevator trim motor/battery and they will interfere with a compass 24" away. Do not underestimate the field around the small elevator trim motor - it is significant.

This location was outside both fore and aft magnetic fields and has a significant advantage. If the plate is flat on the longeron and at right angles to the yaw centerline it will automatically have two axis perfectly aligned. Simply run a string from front center to the tail center to form the yaw axis and center the NAV420 on this string to align the third axis. No installation correction was needed for either RV-10 with this approach.

Do not even think of locating a magnetometer anywhere near the baggage compartment. The magnetic interference can easily be significant and uncontrollable.

Sorry I do not have a picture.

Bill DeRouchey
N939SB, flying


Patrick Thyssen <jump2(at)sbcglobal.net> wrote:
[quote] Here is my mount for the 420 ahrs.
I can build a shelf on the four posts if I need to get it 6 inchs higher away from battery and servo. I'm a good 20 " away now. Will try to demag the cable if not see about stainless.
Pat Thyssen

"Doerr, Ray R [NTK]" <Ray.R.Doerr(at)sprint.com> wrote:
[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Doerr, Ray R [NTK]"
That nice gold finish is PPG Armor Grip. I think it is 900 and
901.

Thank You
Ray Doerr
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poneill(at)irealms.com
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:32 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Thanks Bill. That's great info for the alignment. It is also great to hear some results from the compass observations.

With the AHRS mounted so far aft of the lateral axis, are there any artifacts in the attitude indication? It sounds like no, but that was something I always wondered about.

Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
[quote]
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2007 10:41 am    Post subject: Vans RV-10 AHRS Mounting Kit Reply with quote

Absolutely not. In fact, I have not observed any negatives with my installation. It could be because the XBOW NAV420 is an excellent gyro. It has published specifications and each gyro is individually calibrated for the small difference in sensors.

To finish off the installation - secure the gyro with brass bolts, washers, and nuts. Tuck the GPS antenna underneath the vertical stablizer to fuselage fairing as far forward as possible and centered on the vertical stab to minimize the shadowing effect of the stab. My glass panel has a status that shows the loss of this GPS signal and I have never lost coverage while flying.

Bill




Patrick ONeill <poneill(at)irealms.com> wrote:
[quote] Thanks Bill. That's great info for the alignment. It is also great to hear some results from the compass observations.

With the AHRS mounted so far aft of the lateral axis, are there any artifacts in the attitude indication? It sounds like no, but that was something I always wondered about.

Best Regards,
Patrick #40715
[quote]
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