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jesse(at)saintaviation.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: New Builder - Tools

I definitely have to go with John on the tungsten bucking bars.  Just  

the little one that Stein sells can now replace about 5 that I often  

use.  Well worth the money.



One word on Avery and Cleveland.  They are both expensive and you can  

find stuff cheaper...BUT...their tools are the best quality I have  

used, from dimple dies and drill bits to squeezers.  As far as I know,  

a Sioux drill is a Sioux drill, so go for where you can get it  

cheaper, but when it comes to stuff that isn't a specific brand, these  

two companies are great to buy from.  Believe me, I have tried quite a  

few of them, and the more I try, the more I like Avery and Cleveland.   

Speaking of Cleveland, as was already mentioned, their quick change  

drill system is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC, but make sure you can get your  

original chuck off your drill.  I have only been able to get the chuck  

off the Sious drills (and don't tell anybody, but I have destroyed 2  

other drills trying to do the same to them, but they weren't Sioux).



When it comes to the actual tools, there are probably as many opinions  

and preferences as there are RV-10 panel layouts.  The Pneumatic  

Squeezer is fantastic, but far from indispensible, IMHO.  There are  

many rivets I will use a hand squeezer on long before the pneumatic  

because I have more control with the hand squeezer.



As John said, make your own list and check it twice.  There is no one- 

size-fits-all tool kit.  As I often suggest to people, start with  

budget (being realistic, of course), make a list and put the "must  

haves" at the top, then the "really think I should have", then the  

"wouldn't mind if I end up with" at the bottom.  If you are building  

alone and expect to take several years, start small and use ground  

shipping.  If you are full-time building and hope to be flying by  

Oshkosh '08 (dream on!), then get more to start with and save the  

overnight bills.



All IMHO.



do not archive



Jesse Saint

Saint Aviation, Inc.

jesse(at)saintaviation.com

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694



On Mar 21, 2008, at 11:53 AM, John W. Cox wrote:

[quote] 

 <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>



 As another(A&P with IA and EAA TC) plus sometimes professional  

 mechanic

 for the nation's top regional airline last year and an all too  

 sometime

 RV builder, I second whole heartedly endorse Mike Crow's observation

 from ATC as posted by Larry Rosen. My tool selection for the RV-10 is

 far more vast than even the tools commonly used at work.  Both have

 their advantages.  Often builders are quick to write an early check  

 and

 make the quick selection process simplified.  Make your own list and

 check it twice.



 I have found the use of pneumatic tools indispensible. Larry won me  

 over

 with his Hardhat graphic on his website with a Pneumatic Jackhammer

 operator.  I would seldom resort to an electric powered hand tool -

 since.  I formerly and repetitively visited the late Boeing Surplus

 store in Renton, WA which is now only a fond memory.  Ebay is amazing

 when you make a comprehensive list. Tungsten Bucking bars are the most

 valued and borrowed tools I possess. Get some practical experience and

 ask other builders their input.  Knowledge of item A vs. item B. often

 provides products which simplify the build and become a valued  

 asset.  I

 personally have two Sioux reversible drills which I love.



 I have the utmost respect for those of you who continue to use a

 mechanical hand squeezer or hand dimpler rather than the C214 style or

 DRDT-2 dimpler (which has plans available).  Randy Debauw, builder of

 the first completed RV-10, enlightened me to the advantage of two or

 three used drills (Pre-chucked with the correct bit size for time

 efficiency). If you scan his file on Tim's site you may get a  

 glimpse of

 the end of his workbench and down under the countertop a foot where  

 more

 than a dozen such gems resided until needed.  Several squeezers  

 (Preset)

 makes the assembly a true pleasure.  One vise mounted and the other  

 free

 to roam in your hand.  I have been surprised that more of you aren't

 willing to part with such tools after the build is complete.  There  

 is a

 lesson in there somewhere.



 Doug - Take the time to understand the process and the tools.  Seek

 multiple opinions.  You're going to love this group of friendly  

 builders

 with a common goal and passion.



 John Cox

 --

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stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: New Builder - Tools

I will ditto what Jesse said, but put special emphasis on Avery and

Cleaveland tool.  Bob Avery and the Lauritsen clan are some of the best

people you'll ever deal with. Plus, they are both small family run

operations that truly care about each customer.  I try pretty hard to split

any tool purchases I have between Avery and Cleaveland because I want them

to stay in business.  Like us, they aren't always the cheapest, but they are

the best people I know in the business and their tools are top notch. We too

have worked on everything from 747's to Piper Cubs so our personal tool

assortment is pretty good (how many people need a 10X rivet gun) and I think

I've purchased tools from just about every place out there.  For an RV

(we've built a good number of them too), I can't think of any reason not to

buy nearly all of your tools from either Avery or Cleaveland.



FYI...there has been a LOT of good information on this thread! That being

said, it really doesn't matter how big of a list you make, you'll still be

missing something.  Part of the fun when doing a project like this is all

the treasure hunting you get to do for things like tools and such.  I'd echo

what you've seen before.  Buy a kit, then just buy the rest as you need it.



I'm sorry for the shameless plug, but as an RV builder myself I really like

to see people like those two companies get as much business as they can.  I

don't have an affiliation with either company other than being a customer of

both - and a darned happy customer of both that goes back for more!

Sometimes price isn't the only thing to consider.....



Cheers,

Stein



[quote]--

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av8or(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject: New Builder - Tools

I echo the same and add Stein to that  list....

  

 John

 #40626

 Do Not Archive

  

 "... put special emphasis on Avery and Cleaveland tool.  Bob  Avery and the Lauritsen clan are some of the best people you'll ever deal with.  Plus, they are both small family run operations that truly care about each  customer.  I try pretty hard to split any tool purchases I have between  Avery and Cleaveland because I want them to stay in business.  Like us,  they aren't always the cheapest, but they are the best people I know in the  business and their tools are top notch. I can't think of any reason not to buy  nearly all of your tools from either Avery or Cleaveland.



...as an RV  builder myself I really like to see people like those two companies get as much  business as they can.  I don't have an affiliation with either company  other than being a customer of both - and a darned happy customer of both that  goes back for more!  Sometimes price isn't the only thing to  consider....."



Cheers,

Stein



   [quote][b]

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LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: New Builder - Tools

"Part of the fun when doing a project like this is all the treasure 

hunting you get to do for things like tools and such." 

About half way through you will start electrical wiring and then there 

is a entirely new set of tools to purchase.  And another set of quality 

vendors supporting us RV builders, Stein being one of them.



Larry

do not archive



SteinAir, Inc. wrote:

[quote] 



 I will ditto what Jesse said, but put special emphasis on Avery and

 Cleaveland tool.  Bob Avery and the Lauritsen clan are some of the best

 people you'll ever deal with. Plus, they are both small family run

 operations that truly care about each customer.  I try pretty hard to split

 any tool purchases I have between Avery and Cleaveland because I want them

 to stay in business.  Like us, they aren't always the cheapest, but they are

 the best people I know in the business and their tools are top notch. We too

 have worked on everything from 747's to Piper Cubs so our personal tool

 assortment is pretty good (how many people need a 10X rivet gun) and I think

 I've purchased tools from just about every place out there.  For an RV

 (we've built a good number of them too), I can't think of any reason not to

 buy nearly all of your tools from either Avery or Cleaveland.



 FYI...there has been a LOT of good information on this thread! That being

 said, it really doesn't matter how big of a list you make, you'll still be

 missing something.  Part of the fun when doing a project like this is all

 the treasure hunting you get to do for things like tools and such.  I'd echo

 what you've seen before.  Buy a kit, then just buy the rest as you need it.



 I'm sorry for the shameless plug, but as an RV builder myself I really like

 to see people like those two companies get as much business as they can.  I

 don't have an affiliation with either company other than being a customer of

 both - and a darned happy customer of both that goes back for more!

 Sometimes price isn't the only thing to consider.....



 Cheers,

 Stein



   

> --

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_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

Lew Gallagher

Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:11 am Post subject: Re: New Builder - Tools

Hey Doug,



The guys here have been very helpful, but from observation and my own experience, they've neglected the very first "tool" ...  these things apparently can NOT be built without a digital camera!



Also, what would be really helpful would be a list of all the  acronyms ... IMHO (in my humble opinion).  I still haven't figured out some of them!  And as a non-pilot, you wouldn't believe the headaches I get trying to decipher all the avionics, mechanics, navigation, communication, etc. abbreviations.  As with any new body of knowledge, I'm just immersing myself in it and waiting for it to "osmose".



This is a great resource, I check it every day.



Thanks to all.



Later, - Lew

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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed !

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:33 am Post subject: New Builder - Tools

Speaking of digital tools.  A digital/electronic level and laser line.  Got

mine at home depot.....



Rene' Felker

RV-10 N423CF Flying

801-721-6080

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Lenny Iszak

Joined: 23 Mar 2008
Posts: 270

Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: Re: New Builder - Tools

Doug,



I picked up the coolest little tool a couple of days ago. I was deburring holes with a larger drill bit, spinning it by hand. I got a slight carpal tunnel, and my hand started to get numb very fast.

Went to Lowe's and picked up this Dremel Driver. It's small, fits in your hand, the max rpm in 300, and the trigger is very controllable. You just have to use a drill bit with a hex shank. Check out the attached picture.



Bought my toolkit from Isham (planetools) because it included the pneumatic squeezer and the DRDT-2. I have this big grin on my face every time I use the dimpler 

I also picked up a hand squeezer from Avery. It's more accurate and has more control than the pneumatic one.



I bought some little stuff from different suppliers and so far Avery has been the fastest to ship my order.



This forum had been invaluable in researching the tools I needed. Thanks everyone!

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_________________
Lenny Iszak
Palm City, FL
2014 RV-10, N311LZ - 500 hrs

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