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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: doors again |
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For those who are not using the metal blocks in place of the delrin blockin the door frame: There appears to be enough variability in door construction that the standard c-1012 and c-1011 are not always long enough to penetrate the complete door frame (i.e. delrin, glass and aluminum). For my money I like to see .25" of complete tube in the door jamb. Because of the length of the tube or the bevel, the supplied pins are short by .25-.375. I am making the suggestion to Vans to lengthen these by that amount and allow the builder to shorten to fit as opposed to my personal solution to buy material and machine as required.
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:19 pm Post subject: doors again |
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I'm within one to two hours from seeing how all this comes together and I am surprised that the pins do not penetrate all three structures. Still haven't gotten to the part about how far the threaded bolts stick out of the pins, and why did I have to make a run to the hardware store for these bolts???
[quote] From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: doors again
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:32:38 -0700
For those who are not using the metal blocks in place of the delrin blockin the door frame: There appears to be enough variability in door construction that the standard c-1012 and c-1011 are not always long enough to penetrate the complete door frame (i.e. delrin, glass and aluminum). For my money I like to see .25" of complete tube in the door jamb. Because of the length of the tube or the bevel, the supplied pins are short by .25-.375. I am making the suggestion to Vans to lengthen these by that amount and allow the builder to shorten to fit as opposed to my personal solution to buy material and machine as required.
| Quote: |
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
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blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: doors again |
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The pins may not penetrate all three materials. My left rear pin engaged by the .25" minimum but the other three did not; the bevel in the right rear ran right to the edge of the aluminum; not sufficient for me. The only thing I can figure is that location of the handle can effect these lengths. The instructions requiring centering the handle in the box but of course the box location is determined by where the inner shell is glued to the outer shell. The appropriate holes on the shell halves were faint and flat so there is some variability there. By Friday the doors shoudl be ready to go back on.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2008 4:17 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: doors again
I'm within one to two hours from seeing how all this comes together and I am surprised that the pins do not penetrate all three structures. Still haven't gotten to the part about how far the threaded bolts stick out of the pins, and why did I have to make a run to the hardware store for these bolts???
[quote] From: dlm46007(at)cox.net
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV10-List: doors again
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 15:32:38 -0700
For those who are not using the metal blocks in place of the delrin blockin the door frame: There appears to be enough variability in door construction that the standard c-1012 and c-1011 are not always long enough to penetrate the complete door frame (i.e. delrin, glass and aluminum). For my money I like to see .25" of complete tube in the door jamb. Because of the length of the tube or the bevel, the supplied pins are short by .25-.375. I am making the suggestion to Vans to lengthen these by that amount and allow the builder to shorten to fit as opposed to my personal solution to buy material and machine as required.
| Quote: |
get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
p://forums.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: doors again |
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Again, I did not thread the rods, just stuck a pencil in the hole with a bit of masking tape to make it firm and centered, and marked away -- it came out perfect.
Using someone else's idea, I carved out the BACKSIDE of where the toothed bar retracts, and also a bit of the teflon (where the retaining pin on the toothed bar and the split end of the rod bumps in full open position) so that the pins can retract to the maximum -- which allows you to set the rod at maximum penetration in closed position (make sure they're set on the absolute last possible tooth). In open position, the inside handle is at about 130 degrees instead of 90.
I get full penetration through all three structures. No threads. The taper pulls the door in snug with no help at all, no movement at all once it's shut. This weekend we'll temporarily install the provided weather strip with double sided carpet tape to see if we can accomplish the same fit. I can probably post pictures later if there's interest.
This is not the right thread, but I gotta tell ya, I very much appreciate the info on the crashes, and it's VERY sobering if not downright discouraging.
Later, - Lew
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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_________________
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crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: doors again |
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NO one ever answerred my question to this email below I sent a week or so ago.
Thanks!
This could be the source of the problem right here, as long as the pins are long enough to just be emerging from the door while the handle is in the 130 degree position:
Important question not adressed in the building instructions. When placing the latch mechanism inside the latch pocket, is it necessary to cut access holes for the geared arms that interface with the rod pin and the gear so that not only is there a cut in the pocket for the pin, but also the back half of the gear arm. Basically, when the door is open does the handle go up to the 90 degree position or does it go all the way to the 180 degree position.
If the pin was just emerging from the door side while the handle was in the 180 degree position(Facing aft), just think how far the pin will travel when the handle is placed in the closed position. The manual does not state the number of cuts in the latch pockets??????I haven't fitted the entire mechanism yet, but real close so I am not certain of how it is supossed to be..
JG
| Quote: | Subject: Re: doors again
From: lewgall(at)charter.net
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:03:13 -0700
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Again, I did not thread the rods, just stuck a pencil in the hole with a bit of masking tape to make it firm and centered, and marked away -- it came out perfect.
Using someone else's idea, I carved out the BACKSIDE of where the toothed bar retracts, and also a bit of the teflon (where the retaining pin on the toothed bar and the split end of the rod bumps in full open position) so that the pins can retract to the maximum -- which allows you to set the rod at maximum penetration in closed position (make sure they're set on the absolute last possible tooth). In open position, the inside handle is at about 130 degrees instead of 90.
I get full penetration through all three structures. No threads. The taper pulls the door in snug with no help at all, no movement at all once it's shut. This weekend we'll temporarily install the provided weather strip with double sided carpet tape to see if we can accomplish the same fit. I can probably post pictures later if there's interest.
This is not the right thread, but I gotta tell ya, I very much appreciate the info on the crashes, and it's VERY sobering if not downright discouraging.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177090#177090
&g================
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[quote][b]
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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:23 pm Post subject: doors again |
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Hey John,
The plans are silent on this, but attached is a photo of 410RV. If you do not cut the hole in the back of the pocket, there is no way to achieve required full pin travel.
cheers,
Ron - almost there
| Quote: | From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2008 2:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: doors again
NO one ever answerred my question to this email below I sent a week or so ago.
Thanks!
This could be the source of the problem right here, as long as the pins are long enough to just be emerging from the door while the handle is in the 130 degree position:
Important question not adressed in the building instructions. When placing the latch mechanism inside the latch pocket, is it necessary to cut access holes for the geared arms that interface with the rod pin and the gear so that not only is there a cut in the pocket for the pin, but also the back half of the gear arm. Basically, when the door is open does the handle go up to the 90 degree position or does it go all the way to the 180 degree position.
If the pin was just emerging from the door side while the handle was in the 180 degree position(Facing aft), just think how far the pin will travel when the handle is placed in the closed position. The manual does not state the number of cuts in the latch pockets??????I haven't fitted the entire mechanism yet, but real close so I am not certain of how it is supossed to be..
JG
| Quote: | Subject: Re: doors again
From: lewgall(at)charter.net
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:03:13 -0700
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Again, I did not thread the rods, just stuck a pencil in the hole with a bit of masking tape to make it firm and centered, and marked away -- it came out perfect.
Using someone else's idea, I carved out the BACKSIDE of where the toothed bar retracts, and also a bit of the teflon (where the retaining pin on the toothed bar and the split end of the rod bumps in full open position) so that the pins can retract to the maximum -- which allows you to set the rod at maximum penetration in closed position (make sure they're set on the absolute last possible tooth). In open position, the inside handle is at about 130 degrees instead of 90.
I get full penetration through all three structures. No threads. The taper pulls the door in snug with no help at all, no movement at all once it's shut. This weekend we'll temporarily install the provided weather strip with double sided carpet tape to see if we can accomplish the same fit. I can probably post pictures later if there's interest.
This is not the right thread, but I gotta tell ya, I very much appreciate the info on the crashes, and it's VERY sobering if not downright discouraging.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177090#177090
&g================
|
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: doors again |
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Yes, holes on both sides for the gear bars to go in and out.
And, it's important to position the bars on just the right
teeth so you get maximum extension on the rods.
Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying
do not archive
John Gonzalez wrote:
| Quote: | NO one ever answerred my question to this email below I sent a week or
so ago.
Thanks!
This could be the source of the problem right here, as long as the pins
are long enough to just be emerging from the door while the handle is in
the 130 degree position:
*Important question not adressed in the building instructions. When
placing the latch mechanism inside the latch pocket, is it necessary to
cut access holes for the geared arms that interface with the rod pin and
the gear so that not only is there a cut in the pocket for the pin, but
also the back half of the gear arm. Basically, when the door is open
does the handle go up to the 90 degree position or does it go all the
way to the 180 degree position.
If the pin was just emerging from the door side while the handle was in
the 180 degree position(Facing aft), just think how far the pin will
travel when the handle is placed in the closed position. The manual
does not state the number of cuts in the latch pockets??????I haven't
*fitted the entire mechanism yet, but real close so I am not certain of
how it is supossed to be..
JG
> Subject: Re: doors again
> From: lewgall(at)charter.net
> Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:03:13 -0700
> To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
>
> Again, I did not thread the rods, just stuck a pencil in the hole
with a bit of masking tape to make it firm and centered, and marked away
-- it came out perfect.
>
> Using someone else's idea, I carved out the BACKSIDE of where the
toothed bar retracts, and also a bit of the teflon (where the retaining
pin on the toothed bar and the split end of the rod bumps in full open
position) so that the pins can retract to the maximum -- which allows
you to set the rod at maximum penetration in closed position (make sure
they're set on the absolute last possible tooth). In open position, the
inside handle is at about 130 degrees instead of 90.
>
> I get full penetration through all three structures. No threads. The
taper pulls the door in snug with no help at all, no movement at all
once it's shut. This weekend we'll temporarily install the provided
weather strip with double sided carpet tape to see if we can accomplish
the same fit. I can probably post pictures later if there's interest.
>
> This is not the right thread, but I gotta tell ya, I very much
appreciate the info on the crashes, and it's VERY sobering if not
downright discouraging.
>
> Later, - Lew
>
> --------
> non-pilot
> crazy about building
> NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
> doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177090#177090
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g================
>
>
>
*
*
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Lew Gallagher
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Greenville , SC
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 4:06 am Post subject: Re: doors again |
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Hey John (JG),
That's the one! It was YOUR post that gave me the idea to play with the holes on the backside -- I just now got there, and it works. Try it, you'll like it!
Thanks, - Lew
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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_________________
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
Fly off completed ! |
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: doors again |
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Thanks Ron,
I cut the holes anyway, but was skiing last weekend so I haven't finished the pin install. If I don't get enough length with the Van's pins and bolt assembly, I'll make up my own from new tube stock.
JOhn
[quote] Subject: RE: Re: doors again
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 14:50:25 +0930
From: ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
.ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;} Hey John,
The plans are silent on this, but attached is a photo of 410RV. If you do not cut the hole in the back of the pocket, there is no way to achieve required full pin travel.
cheers,
Ron - almost there
| Quote: | From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Wednesday, 16 April 2008 2:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: doors again
NO one ever answerred my question to this email below I sent a week or so ago.
Thanks!
This could be the source of the problem right here, as long as the pins are long enough to just be emerging from the door while the handle is in the 130 degree position:
Important question not adressed in the building instructions. When placing the latch mechanism inside the latch pocket, is it necessary to cut access holes for the geared arms that interface with the rod pin and the gear so that not only is there a cut in the pocket for the pin, but also the back half of the gear arm. Basically, when the door is open does the handle go up to the 90 degree position or does it go all the way to the 180 degree position.
If the pin was just emerging from the door side while the handle was in the 180 degree position(Facing aft), just think how far the pin will travel when the handle is placed in the closed position. The manual does not state the number of cuts in the latch pockets??????I haven't fitted the entire mechanism yet, but real close so I am not certain of how it is supossed to be..
JG
| Quote: | Subject: Re: doors again
From: lewgall(at)charter.net
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2008 17:03:13 -0700
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lew Gallagher" <lewgall(at)charter.net>
Again, I did not thread the rods, just stuck a pencil in the hole with a bit of masking tape to make it firm and centered, and marked away -- it came out perfect.
Using someone else's idea, I carved out the BACKSIDE of where the toothed bar retracts, and also a bit of the teflon (where the retaining pin on the toothed bar and the split end of the rod bumps in full open position) so that the pins can retract to the maximum -- which allows you to set the rod at maximum penetration in closed position (make sure they're set on the absolute last possible tooth). In open position, the inside handle is at about 130 degrees instead of 90.
I get full penetration through all three structures. No threads. The taper pulls the door in snug with no help at all, no movement at all once it's shut. This weekend we'll temporarily install the provided weather strip with double sided carpet tape to see if we can accomplish the same fit. I can probably post pictures later if there's interest.
This is not the right thread, but I gotta tell ya, I very much appreciate the info on the crashes, and it's VERY sobering if not downright discouraging.
Later, - Lew
--------
non-pilot
crazy about building
NOW OFICIALLY BUILDER #40549
doors almost finished, pants on, WHEW!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=177090#177090
&g================
|
"Warning:
The information contained in this email and any attached files is
confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended
recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any
attachments is expressly prohibited. If you have received this email
in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been
taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,
however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the
sender's responsibility. It is your responsibility to ensure virus
checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to
your computer."
|
[b]
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