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Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

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jpg12305

Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 23

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:47 am Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

My current prop is the standard 3 blade Warpdrive, but unfortunately shortened in its early life due to a ground encounter. 

Diameter is reduced to about 58", which (I assume) reduces significantly as well its efficiency.

In order to revert to proper performance I am considering the current alternative (VP not being an option due to cost and weight) :

- purchase new blades from Warpdrive (cheap and straightforward)

- replace with an Arplast Ecoprop. From misc readings it looks better designed than the Warpdrive, question being if the extra performance worths the extra cost.



Engine is a 912ULS.

Has anyone gone through such change ? 



Jean-Paul

Europa monowheel 332 - France

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Jean-Paul,



Here are some figures that I measured earlier this year for a 912S Europa 

using a 1600mm (63") diameter 130mm chord Arplast Ecoprop in place of the 

64" wide chord Warp Drive (which had been set to 20.5 degrees at the tip).



The Ecoprop propeller came off a BanBi Club (which is the version with 

longer wings than the normal (UK) BanBi) and for which direct performance 

figures were available.  So, to compare with the Club, the propeller was set 

up at the same pitch as used on the Club



The BanBi performance figure is shown first, with the Europa figure 

following in brackets (...).

Blade set at 20 degrees at the tip (no spinner on the Europa):

Max static was 4400rpm for both aircraft.

128 knts tas at 75% (130knts tas)

149 knts tas flat out (154knts tas 5500rpm)

1250 FPM (1200)

17 lph at 75% (16)



The results are the same within measurable error, except that the Europa was 

faster!



The 20 degree pitch setting is OK for a 500m strip but for my short (<400m!) 

strip and

fully loaded I needed to fine the prop to 18.25 degrees. Which then provided

almost identical take-off performance to the Warp Drive that I had on 

previously, except that

fuel burn was 5 to 7% less with the Eco and vibration was reduced.



The Ecoprop does not "constant-speed" as well as the Warp Drive, so has a 

narrower operational speed range, meaning more compromise for climb against 

cruise performance.



The Ecoprop 130mm chord possibly has a little too much blade area for the 

912S and could be better suited to the 914. I have not tried the 110mm chord 

Ecoprop.



If I had the choice of the Warp or the Eco I would probably go for the

Eco. If I had a longer airfield I would definitely have the Eco.



Hope this is of use to you.



Duncan McF.

---

nwcmc(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Hi Duncan



Did you mean 4400rpm static or did you mean 5400rpm?



Regards



Nigel Charles



--

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

All

in my experience, (not as extensive as some on this list) the Eco prop 

is an excellent compromise. (whatever you do, is compromise in aerodynamics)

Warp drive has good performance when stalled, ie at start of take off. 

Thereafter it's efficiency starts to decline. In general I think it is 

too stiff, (too much carbon, expensive and V Hi modulus) and designed 

for slow airplanes with rag wings, the ECO uses carbon to resist 

torsion, (best) and S glass to resist centrifugal loads, also best imho, 

it's more flexible but hi modulus) .(forgive me if that may confuse 

you,, (I've had a g&t)  almost as strong as carbon but more extension 

for the same load)

Ecoprop will give you a much smoother ride because it helps to damp out 

the vibrations which the Warp Drive does not, it rings like a carbon 

bell! and gives everything attached to it a harsh ride. (IMHO! get a 

second opinion), I don't know as much as some of you guys do.

Jimmy Keppert in Austria has a lovely monwheel built by Trevor Jackson, 

(kit no 3 I think) he has an Ecoprop and goes almost as well as Klaus 

with a VP NSI, (Warp blades) Klaus' airplane is lovely too I must say. I 

wish those guys would talk to us occasionally, they have valuable 

experience to share, (which they do when asked)

 Alain Petit who runs Arplast, I have known for many years and I respect 

him.

Graham



nigel charles wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi Duncan



 Did you mean 4400rpm static or did you mean 5400rpm?

   

> In order to revert to proper performance I am considering the current 

> alternative (VP not being an option due to cost and weight) :

> - purchase new blades from Warpdrive (cheap and straightforward)

> - replace with an Arplast Ecoprop. From misc readings it looks better 

> designed than the Warpdrive, question being if the extra performance 

> worths the extra cost.

>

> Engine is a 912ULS.

> Has anyone gone through such change ?

>

> Jean-Paul

> Europa monowheel 332 - France

>

>

>

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Jen-Paul

try an Ecoprop, Alain Petit knows what he is doing

graham

jpg12305 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My current prop is the standard 3 blade Warpdrive, but unfortunately shortened in its early life due to a ground encounter. 

 Diameter is reduced to about 58", which (I assume) reduces significantly as well its efficiency.

 In order to revert to proper performance I am considering the current alternative (VP not being an option due to cost and weight) :

 - purchase new blades from Warpdrive (cheap and straightforward)

 - replace with an Arplast Ecoprop. From misc readings it looks better designed than the Warpdrive, question being if the extra performance worths the extra cost.



 Engine is a 912ULS.

 Has anyone gone through such change ? 



 Jean-Paul

 Europa monowheel 332 - France





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=193137#193137

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Jean Paul,

 I do not know about performances but the Arplast  blades are more flexible and therefore should run smoother than the Warp  Drive. Arplast blades leading edge is unprotected and will erode when flying in  rain. The first thing to do is to check with your GSAC if they would approve the  use of Arplast. I believe they would ask you to prove that it is approved by the  kit manufacturer. As the only prop approved by the Europa factory is the Warp  Drive or the Airmaster with Warp Drive blades, I am afraid you may be in  trouble. 

 Desolé de t'avoir raté à Vichy!

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL

  

  

  

 - purchase new  blades from Warpdrive (cheap and straightforward)

- replace with an Arplast  Ecoprop. From misc readings it looks better designed

than the Warpdrive,  question being if the extra performance worths the extra  cost.

    [quote][b]

gcrowder2

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 136
Location: Golden, Colorado USA

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 1:34 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Does anybody know if the Arplast blades would fit a Warp Drive HD hub?  My beloved Catto

3 blade is down for repairs after a prop strike.  I was at the runup area doing a full power

static test in a 20 mph wind holding the tail down with full back stick.  A 172 came by and

blasted me with his prop and that was too much for the elevator to deal with.  The tail came

up and the prop struck pavement lightly before I got the tail back down.  Oh well.

  I like the WD hub but hate the blades on my 125 hp Soob. The 130mm wide Arplast blades look attractive!

 

                                                        Glenn



From: air.guerner(at)orange.frTo: europa-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Europa-List: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?Date: Thu C 17 Jul 2008 21:19:05 +0200



Jean Paul C

I do not know about performances but the Arplast blades are more flexible and therefore should run smoother than the Warp Drive. Arplast blades leading edge is unprotected and will erode when flying in rain. The first thing to do is to check with your GSAC if they would approve the use of Arplast. I believe they would ask you to prove that it is approved by the kit manufacturer. As the only prop approved by the Europa factory is the Warp Drive or the Airmaster with Warp Drive blades C I am afraid you may be in trouble. 

Desolé de t'avoir raté à Vichy!

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL

 

 

 

- purchase new blades from Warpdrive (cheap and straightforward)- replace with an Arplast Ecoprop. From misc readings it looks better designedthan the Warpdrive C question being if the extra performance worths the extra cost

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Nigel, 4400, which is about 77hp on the 'S' engine. Rgds.,Duncan.

---

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 3:58 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Remi

you are probably right about the factory attitude but there are many UK 

Europas flying with Arplast props. One of them is in Austria (Ecoprop)

Graham

Remi Guerner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Jean Paul,

 I do not know about performances but the Arplast blades are more 

 flexible and therefore should run smoother than the Warp Drive. 

 Arplast blades leading edge is unprotected and will erode when flying 

 in rain. The first thing to do is to check with your GSAC if they 

 would approve the use of Arplast. I believe they would ask you to 

 prove that it is approved by the kit manufacturer. As the only prop 

 approved by the Europa factory is the Warp Drive or the Airmaster with 

 Warp Drive blades, I am afraid you may be in trouble. 

 Desolé de t'avoir raté à Vichy!

 Remi Guerner

 F-PGKL

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: Prop advice fixed pitch - Warpdrive or Arplast ?

Glenn

no, Arplast baldes are too big to fit in a Warp hub. IOW Warp blade hubs 

are too small which is why they fail on Lycomings. The won't stand the 

vibration. (tortional mostly)

Graham



glenn crowder wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Does anybody know if the Arplast blades would fit a Warp Drive HD hub? 

                                                         Glenn

jpg12305

Joined: 16 Jul 2008
Posts: 23

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: r

 	  air.guerner(at)orange.fr wrote: 	
		  Jean Paul,

 I do not know about performances but the Arplast  blades are more flexible and therefore should run smoother than the Warp  Drive. Arplast blades leading edge is unprotected and will erode when flying in  rain. The first thing to do is to check with your GSAC if they would approve the  use of Arplast. I believe they would ask you to prove that it is approved by the  kit manufacturer. As the only prop approved by the Europa factory is the Warp  Drive or the Airmaster with Warp Drive blades, I am afraid you may be in  trouble.   	




Thanks Remi.

 I actually asked that question to the inspector, and he said that I should file a personal mod with a "Non Technical Objection" from Europa (need to contact Roger about that). He said as well that if the Arplast is already used on Europas, this will surely help. If I decide for the Ecoprop I will go first into that mod application process before spending any money !



 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Desolï¿½ de t'avoir ratï¿½ ï¿½ Vichy!

	


 

Same for me. I went to Vichy last Sunday, and it was quite desertic ! Bad and rainy day. 

In case you want to come to Amboise, let me know.

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