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icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

I've added a couple pics of the engine installation on my Xtra.

http://ill-eagleaviation.com/EngineInstallation.htm

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

Last edited by icrashrc on Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

 	  Quote: 	
		   I've added a couple pics of the engine installation on me Xtra.

 > --------
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Scott


	




Hi Scott:



You mentioned oil temp and water temp on your engine installation web page.



The 912ULS (and 912UL) are concerned with oil temp and cylinder head metal 

temp.  Don't believe there are limits for water temp since it is not a 

required parameter to measure.



There are three temp three temp senders on the engine.  They are identical. 

One is for engine oil temp, and the other two measure #2 and #3 CHT (one for 

tractor and one for pusher configuration).



I discovered the engine runs better is the CHT is kept above 180F.  Nothing 

in the book about that.



You will probably have to block part of the coolant radiator to get the CHT 

and engine oil temp up to the minimum of 190F (to burn off condensation in 

the oil system).



John W kept each end of his radiator taped year round.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

> I've added a couple pics of the engine installation on me Xtra.

 > --------

 	  Quote: 	
		   Scott


	


Scott:



Missed the location of the oil cooler.  Will be interested to see how well 

it cools in that location.  Probably will be ok.



I piggy back my oil cooler on the radiator.  My oil temps run higher than 

average, even with the largest size Rotax cooler, except, of course, during 

the winter months.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

vicsv(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Engine Installation

That install looks good. i had a chute to contend  with up front. I don't know about the 100 hp

 but John was right when he said the 912ul runs  cool. Just before that i had removed my oil cooler 

 and saw 190 deg for the first time. He also  mentioned (John H.) quite awhile back that the 912 didn't like conical filters.  Maybe he could comment on that again as I have forgotten.

  

 Vic

 Xtra 912ul

 conical filters

   [quote][b]

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:09 am Post subject: Engine Installation

Hi Vic:

  

 The 100 horse generates much more heat than the  80.

  

 My understanding is the Bing carbs on the 912's  were not designed to operated in the pusher configuration, air stream blasting  the air filters and carb intakes head on.  Frank Reyen designed a way to  reverse the intake manifolds and fly his carbs on the back side of the  engine.  On BMW two cylinder engines, the carbs are mounted on the back  side of the cylinders.  The Bing has two static ports is it reading to  decide where the piston will be located, in conjunction with the throttle valve,  to adjust mixture.  One port is what is commonly referred to as the float  chamber vent tube and the other is a port on the lip of the carb intake.   These ports need to be reading undisturbed static pressure in order to do their  jobs correctly.  John W overcame this by running the flat (cake pan) type  K&N filters.  I did it with filter covers that came with a carb heat  system I purchased some time back.  Before I installed the covers, airflow  would blown the fuel vapor stand off at the mouth of the carb out the side of  the filter and on the carb and engine.  My 912 engines ran ok with conical  filters, but made a mess of brown fuel stain on them.  One of these days I  will remove the filter covers and see if I can detect any difference in  performance.

  

 john h

 mkIII

  	  Quote: 	
		      

   That install looks good. i had a chute to contend    with up front. I don't know about the 100 hp

   but John was right when he said the 912ul runs    cool. Just before that i had removed my oil cooler 

   and saw 190 deg for the first time. He also    mentioned (John H.) quite awhile back that the 912 didn't like conical    filters. Maybe he could comment on that again as I have  forgotten.

    

   Vic

    

	
   [quote][b]

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

John,



I noticed your filter covers as a new addition and have been meaning to ask about them. Now i know!

My Rotax 912 operators manual has specs for coolant temp. It says in part that coolant temp max[exit temp] 120c [248f]. It also says permanent monitoring of coolant temp and cylinder temp is necessary. I can make the .PDF of my operators manual available for download from my website if you want.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:27 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

 	  Quote: 	
		   My Rotax 912 operators manual has specs for coolant temp.  

 

 --------

 Scott

 
	


Hi Scott:



Must be something new.



I can take a gander at the manual on Kodiak.



Thanks,



john h

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:52 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

John H.



I really like your conical covers for the K&N air filters that come on the 912.  I also have the fuel stains you describe on my engine.  I wonder even more what going through heavy rain would do to the filters, if flying through heavy rain could get them soaked enough to induce an engine failure ?  Do you know where I can get a set of the covers that you have ?



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

Scott,



I really like what you did with the radiators on your Kolb, I have always thought about moving my radiators away from behind the cage, and putting a sharp V aluminum fairing back there like John H has.  I was just not sure where to move the radiators to... On front of the engine would be almost no drag, and keep clean air in the prop.  Where did you get the hardware to mount the radiators on the front of the engine ?    I looked at your pictures, could you post a few pictures showing more of the mounting details ?



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

> I really like your conical covers for the K&N air filters that come on 

the 912.  I also have the fuel stains you describe on my engine.  I wonder 

even more what going through heavy rain would do to the filters, if flying 

through heavy rain could get them soaked enough to induce an engine failure 

?  Do you know where I can get a set of the covers that you have ?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Mike


	




Mike:



I have spent days flying in heavy rain with never a hint of engine miss fire 

or failure with the conical K&N filters.



Did nearly lose the engine on my FS, Rotax 447, after flying through a rain 

storm.  It did result in a precautionary landing and I was losing power when 

I turned to final in a drainage ditch south of Crystal River, Florida, in 

Hernando County.  Also ate up an unprotected wood prop.  ;-(



I paid 385.00 for a hot water carb heat system which included the covers.  I 

flew with the carb heat system for a few years, then uninstalled everything 

except the filter covers.



I bought them through a guy that was selling 912 powered trikes at Lakeland 

about 2001.



Should be able to lay up a couple in glass if you have that particular 

expertise.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 7:31 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

> I have spent days flying in heavy rain with never a hint of engine miss 

fire

 	  Quote: 	
		   or failure with the conical K&N filters.


	




Mike:



Need to add:  The K&N filters were not covered when I was doing the flying 

in heavy rain.  Most of that was in Yukon Territory and British Columbia 

during my 1994 flight to Alaska.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: Engine Installation

I to have used the K&N filters in rain. No problems while at cruse RPM. I 

have had trouble after sitting on the ground waiting on light rain or misty 

weather to clear with the engine not running up to full take off RPM. This 

has happened on two occasions. Both times I removed the filters , the engine 

ran to correct RPM. On these occasions I returned to my home airport without 

problem. When the filters dried out I put them back on , no problems . The 

way I see it when the engine is pulling plenty of air it will keep the 

filter pods clear. When left sitting the water build up will prevent 

sufficent air to pass though the filters reducing HP . Flying in rain is no 

fun and it chews up those wooden props fast.

Tony

Downunder

MK111c 503

---

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:10 am Post subject: Engine Installation

 	  Quote: 	
		   My Rotax 912 operators manual has specs for coolant temp.  

 

 --------

 Scott


	




 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>


	


The last time I visited with LEAF about water temp,  I was interested in

putting in a thermostat to control min. water temps so my heater would work

better in cool temps.... I was told that   there was no minimum water

temp...  only a maximum temp.  that is why there was no provision for a

thermostat in the system.



Boyd Young

MKIIIC 

Utah

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

Mike,



I'm tempted to ignore your request after the way you welcomed me to this list when i joined. In the end i've decided to be a better person than you. It wasn't too difficult...



I started with the 912 installation kit from Travis (at) Kolb. All the unique mounting hardware was fabricated in house. The fitted coolant hoses came from Autozone. I will add more detail to the engine installation page in the next few days. 



 	  JetPilot wrote: 	
		  Scott,



I really like what you did with the radiators on your Kolb, I have always thought about moving my radiators away from behind the cage, and putting a sharp V aluminum fairing back there like John H has.  I was just not sure where to move the radiators to... On front of the engine would be almost no drag, and keep clean air in the prop.  Where did you get the hardware to mount the radiators on the front of the engine ?    I looked at your pictures, could you post a few pictures showing more of the mounting details ?



Mike

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:23 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

A few more pics have been added to 

http://ill-eagleaviation.com/EngineInstallation.htm



If there's any specific questions feel free to ask.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Engine installation

Scott-  That is a nice, neat installation.  I do see a loose nut- are you going to disassemble, or did you take a photo in progress?

  

                                               Bill Sullivan

                                               Windsor Locks, Ct.

 [quote][b]

lucien

Joined: 03 Jun 2007
Posts: 721
Location: santa fe, NM

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:08 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

 	  icrashrc wrote: 	
		  A few more pics have been added to 

http://ill-eagleaviation.com/EngineInstallation.htm



If there's any specific questions feel free to ask. 	




Can't tell from the photo but is the drain plug offset to the side of that brace? Just wondering what oil changes will be like with the tank up there?



LS

_________________
LS
Titan II SS

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:39 pm Post subject: Re: Engine Installation

The first oil changes will probably be easiest to do by unhooking the oil lines and removing the tank. I'll probably machine a 90deg extension that will fit in the bottom of the tank and install a Curtis drain valve in the other end. Then it will be a simple matter of hooking up a hose, then opening the drain valve.



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Can't tell from the photo but is the drain plug offset to the side of that brace? Just wondering what oil changes will be like with the tank up there?



LS

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

icrashrc

Joined: 16 Mar 2006
Posts: 247
Location: Mishawaka, In

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Engine installation

Good eye! Pics were taken in process. Everything was tightened before we ran the engine. After we finish the center gap fill we'll take it all back apart for paint and covering.



 	  williamtsullivan(at)att.n wrote: 	
		  Scott-  That is a nice, neat installation.  I do see a loose nut- are you going to disassemble, or did you take a photo in progress?

  

                                               Bill Sullivan

                                               Windsor Locks, Ct.

_________________
Scott

www.ill-EagleAviation.com

do not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: Engine Installation

> Can't tell from the photo but is the drain plug offset to the side of 

that brace? Just wondering what oil changes will be like with the tank up 

there?

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 LS


	


LS:



I pull my tank to change oil.  This also gives me a chance to rinse the tank 

out with gasoline, take it apart, and inspect the innards.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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