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Trailering a Kitfox
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kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:00 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Attached is a picture of my classic 4 on her trailer.  To steady the

vertical I use a plywood brace that slides over the top like a big rigid

sock.  The elevator is secured in the full down position with a bungee in

the cabin

IMG_2150.JPG

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Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:35 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

I have a curious question. Why do you choose to load the aircraft on the trailer tail

forward?



Is it because that makes it easier to load?



I could understand doing this if the main gear could be lower being behind the trailer

wheels but not on a flatbed trailer.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:52 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Kirk, and anyone else who trailers on a flatbed or knows the answer,



I notice in yours and several other pictures the tailwheel is raised so that

the wings and stabiliser are level, or I assume that is the reason. I

trailer mine with the tailwheel on the deck, specifically so that the wind

while travelling is exerting a downward pressure on the surfaces and

hopefully holding everything in place without flutter. I have never had

rubbing marks of the flaperons against the tail, which are held tight

against it, or any problems with the horizontal control surface which is all

the way down and not secured.



Some have mentioned fears of tailwheel spring damage but my Maule assembly

is very robust and never shown any problems. I secure the wheel itself to an

electric winch cable (used to lower the plane down the ramp) and ratchet

straps tightly to either side.



I would be nervous travelling with the arse up like your picture - can you

share your reasons? Also it looks like your rear inspection plates are off,

or is that a reflection in a shiny surface?



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Paul - not sure who your question is directed at but I will give my reasons

for trailering tail-first on a flatbed. 



First there are the aerodynamic reasons I just listed in another post - the

airflow while travelling will tend to keep the plane centered and pressed

downward rather than lifted by a gust. I have had straps come off at speed

due to my lazy or hurried tie-down but the plane has never shifted even when

not completely secured. Securing the tailwheel is most important so I have a

redundant system of winch cable and 2 angled straps, any 2 could fail and I

would not lose the plane. Also redundant straps keeping the wings inboard.



Second - I open the wings on the flatbed and push the plane to the ramp,

lower it down the ramp using the winch, then push and lift the tail off the

trailer manually. Same operation in reverse, very easy and quick.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 1:35 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

The rear inspection plates are off.  That is an old photo of the first trip

to the airport and everything was not buttoned up as I did a full inspection

before the first flight.  As for the tail being up. That prevents excessive

air loads on the wings in the folded position.  With the tail down on the

deck they will create a lot of down force



--

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:43 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Why do you think "with the tail down on the deck it[they?] will create a lot

of down force"? The airfoil only works from leading edge to trailing edge,

in that position (trailering, tail down) the air pressure will just spill to

the sides and center and provide minimal force downward where you want it -

holding it on the flatbed. Seems to work for me, or are my physics wrong?

Lifting the tail can cause varying lift, down pressure, side pressures,

vibration, elevator flapping around, and other bad stuff. As others have

posted about "rubbing on the tail". No? Yes?



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:22 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

I think what he means is like a sheet of plywood held flat into the  

wind will create a LOT of down force (or up force), but if held with  

the edge into the wind, it won't create any down force. I wouldn't  

want to try it in any appreciable-speed wind, though : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition  

system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Jan 3, 2009, at 7:42 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:



[quote] 

 <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>



 Why do you think "with the tail down on the deck it[they?] will  

 create a lot

 of down force"? The airfoil only works from leading edge to  

 trailing edge,

 in that position (trailering, tail down) the air pressure will just  

 spill to

 the sides and center and provide minimal force downward where you  

 want it -

 holding it on the flatbed. Seems to work for me, or are my physics  

 wrong?

 Lifting the tail can cause varying lift, down pressure, side  

 pressures,

 vibration, elevator flapping around, and other bad stuff. As others  

 have

 posted about "rubbing on the tail". No? Yes?



 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa



 --

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:38 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

I agree Lynn, a flat sheet of plywood held down into the wind will create a

down force, a curved piece of plywood held down into the wind will create a

more stable down force, but a flat piece of plywood held level in the wind

will likely vibrate itself into oblivion. I always tie plywood on my car

roof leading edge down and preferably curved for stability, *never* flat

into the wind.



Not trying to deny basic physics here, just trying to see if there is a

better way of trailering a Kitfox than what I am doing right now. However,

as I said I have lost tiedowns and not lost the plane or even come close; I

am thinking with the wings level into the wind and lost tiedowns the plane

could easily go in the direction of the weakest stability, which would mean

"don't lose a tie-down" with the flying surfaces level. Or am I wrong? I

love a good physics/aerodynamics argument, sorry. ;-s



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 



--

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:22 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

I think the reason for the tailwheel lift is so less fuel has to be drained 

from the tanks before trailering..  It also eases folding and unfolding if 

the wings track horizontally rather than down hill.  At least that is why 

the local trailer guy does it.  He loads with the wings out and then folds 

the wings, and infolds while on the trailer.



Lowell



---

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:53 pm Post subject: Re: Trailering a Kitfox

 	  Paul A. Franz, P.E. wrote: 	
		  I have a curious question. Why do you choose to load the aircraft on the trailer tail

forward?



Is it because that makes it easier to load?



I could understand doing this if the main gear could be lower being behind the trailer

wheels but not on a flatbed trailer.



-- 

Paul A. Franz

Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT

Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP

Bellevue WA

425.241.1618 Cell 	




If you trailer with the nose forward, and go fast, there is concern and I believe even documented cases where the air rammed into the spars and ballooned the wing fabric off the ribs.  I seem to remember a story of a guy that trailed to osh kosh or one of the big gatherings, with hopes of flying once there... he found his wings destroyed when he got there...



As far as trailering with the tail up, you don't have to drain all the fuel out when you fold the wings.



I roll the mains off the trailer, fold the winds out, then roll the tail off and fly.  To put it back on, set the tail on the trailer, fold the wings, hit the winch button and suck it up.  Strap down and you are on the road in about 15 - 20 minutes.

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:01 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

I only towed my plane once or twice on wheels and I towed it tail first for

the reason that I thought it would be too difficult to stop wind pressure

from entering the root end of the wing and separating everything inside.  I

know it is suggested if you tow forward to cap the spars with tennis balls

to stop air from entering the wing.



I also used the auxiliary supports which attach close to the landing gear

attach points and to the leading edge of the root portion of the wing.  



I always defuel the plane for towing. Remember 13 U.S. gal of gas is close

to 100lb. and it is rear of the CG so any fuel in the wings will increase to

stress on the swing point and add more weight to the tail of the plane.



I used a stand with the tail tied three ways to support the plane level.  I

figured this would reduce any stress caused by big trucks heading the

opposite direction on the highway.  



I used the included restraints that hold the wings in to the tail but I

never trusted them.  So I always tie the wing tips together with bungee cord

so there will be no accidents of the wings unfolding in transit.  I usually

cover the vertical stab and rudder with heavy cloth so the flapperons will

not rub that area.  



Finally I use elevator locks to hold the elevators straight.  It not only

stops the elevator from thrashing about like a flag at full mast but doing

that will alleviate any stress that can be put on the elevator control

linkages.



Finally the faster you go the more stress you can expect to put on the

wings... judge yourself accordingly.  I only towed at 80 Km/hr. (50mph) on

out smallish highways.



Most of the time my plane is on floats...  if you saw my neighbourhood you'd

know why.  To launch the plane I have to tow it about two miles to the pond.

The float trailer tows the plane nose first so I limit my speed to 20 Km/hr

A little faster than running speed.  Of the two miles I tow the plane only

about a mile and a half is on public roads the rest can best be described as

trails.

_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:42 am Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Fuel in the wing tanks - that might be the main reason my trailering differs

from most others who have posted here. My KFII has one 6 gallon "reserve"

tank in the starboard wing and I follow my KFII Operator's Manual which says

to never fold the wing with fuel in the tank - for one thing it makes the

wing heavy and also fuel can slosh out of the filler cap. I don't use the

wing tank unless I am going a distance, and then I will only fuel it when

it's off the trailer and use the fuel before loading back on the trailer.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa



--

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Bob Brennan wrote:

[quote] 



 Why do you think "with the tail down on the deck it[they?] will create a lot

 of down force"? The airfoil only works from leading edge to trailing edge,

 in that position (trailering, tail down) the air pressure will just spill to

 the sides and center and provide minimal force downward where you want it -

 holding it on the flatbed. Seems to work for me, or are my physics wrong?

 Lifting the tail can cause varying lift, down pressure, side pressures,

 vibration, elevator flapping around, and other bad stuff. As others have

 posted about "rubbing on the tail". No? Yes?



 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa 



 --

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 6:09 am Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

James,

  You have a lot of really good advice on how to tow your Kitfox. I thought I would add just a little more. I towed my Kitfox from just south of Boston,Ma to Pensacola ,Fl on a 24 ft trailer. We tied the wheels to the front rail,locked the elevator with the seat belts,made and used the "sailplane rudder lock" (carpet lined wood) and Skystar wing support bars. We supported the tail with a hay bale covered with plastic.( hay bail has been removed in the picture) This kept the tail wheel about 6 inches off the deck. The turtle deck hole and forward fuselage was wrapped with plastic sheeting.

  We traveled about 2000 miles as I recall and went thru snow storms,road salting,winds,etc. It was quite a journey. I had to do alot of aircraft cleaning when we arrived at my hanger.(It was not fun tying the aircraft down at 15 degrees).

  We had one trucker ask what type of a  bug we were hauling. I guess the Kitfox with the wings folded does look like a giant roach with the wings folded

  

                                                             Dick Maddux

                                                             Fox 4-1200

                                                             Pensacola,Fl



latest news - from fashion trends to celebrity break-ups and everything in between.

Kitfox_001.jpg

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:12 am Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Sorry, Bob, I gave it all night to exorcise the "evil" out  

before answering, and all I could come up with was buying a better  

brand of plywood.  : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 596+ hrs

Sensenich 62x46

flying again after engine rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire  

ignition system;

also building a new pair of snow skis

do not archive



On Jan 3, 2009, at 8:37 PM, Bob Brennan wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

  but a flat piece of plywood held level in the wind

 will likely vibrate itself into oblivion.



 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 9:21 am Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Always remember that what you post on the Internet lasts forever. Or as near

to a technical "forever" as one can get. I always try to use a double

entendre, that way I can always call the other person evil for taking it the

way I did not intend, even though I did! Little things like "vibrate itself

into oblivion" 



Do not archive

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa



--

kirkhull(at)kc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:13 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

Better check your physics.  Any shape can act as a wing when moving though

the air in any direction.  Granted some shapes are better then others but

any will work. If you don't believe me all you have to do is stick you hand

out the window of a moving car.  As with any wing the more + angle of attack

(until stall) the more lift and the more - angle of attack the more down

force.  

	While I could be wrong my line of thinking goes like this.

The wing was designed to have lift applied to it with the wings in the

extended position where the load is evenly distributed to all connections.

With the wings folded you loose 1 connection(front spar) leaving the

remaining supports both on the same side.  This is why most people have come

up with a bracket of some sort to support the leading edge.  With that said,

with the tail down (- angle of attack) you are applying force in the

opposite direction to which the wing was designed with the addition of

minimal support.  With the tail up in a neutral position you are not adding

any extra force in either direction to the wing.

--

kitfoxfugit(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 05, 2009 7:21 pm Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

This is to respond to 4 questions that have been asked about trailering a Kitfox.  This applies to a Model IV.



1.  Forward or backward?

2.  Tail raised or down?

3.  How to prevent flaperons from damaging vertical stab.

4.  How to protect control surfaces from fluttering.



My trailer was made by Skystar, which had just bought Kitfox during the time the kit was produced.  So I suppose someone at Kitfox put some thought into it.  It is designed to haul the plane with the tail forward, wings level.



It goes onto the trailer tail first, pulled by a winch line on the tailwheel.  The tailwheel follows a ramp up to near the front of the trailer, mains up steeper ramps when the plane is nearly on.  To design for hauling forward would be difficult without unhitching the trailer.



Once on, the tail is raised onto a solid block support that bolts onto the tail.  That would seem to be enough to hold the plane securely without redundancy.  The winch line is left on, as additional security, with the main wheels tight against their rear supports.  The mainwheel ramps are then fastened up tight against the front of the main wheels.  There are also 2 angle iron plates to prevent side-to-side movement of the tires.  The aircraft is immobile on the trailer.  I also use motorcycle tiedowns over each side of the main gear (Grove), one on each side to the loops provided on the trailer.



Next, I fold the wings, which is easy for one person in the level position.  I usually have burned the fuel down to < 1/2 tanks before putting the plane away (a good excuse for more flying, if nothing else).  The tops of the wing struts are attached to tubing braces that bolt to the vertical stab.  I also tie the flaperons together with a bungee as a redundancy and to prevent them from touching the vertical stab (which they clear when immobilized).  Braces also attach from the front spars to the extra landing gear mounting tabs.



I leave the elevators down, where gravity (and maybe wind) holds them.  I put foam pipe wrap on the rudder and run several bungees from one tubing brace around the foam on the rudder, to the other brace, and push the rudder fully deflected to one side.  This is necessary to keep it from flapping in the breeze.



I have never towed long distances, as my hanger/barn is only about 4 miles away, but it tows fine locally this way at legal speeds, including across a bumpy railroad track.  I am sure there are many ways to tow (and I have towed/hauled other planes other ways), but my method is mostly influenced by the design of the Skystar trailer.  It is very stable and secure this way.  I normally use a Jeep to tow it, which does block some wind, but have used a pickup, also.



JA KF IV Speedster (at) O70

815TL

Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Posts: 62

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Trailering a Kitfox

Ya know, I never realy gave it any thought as to if the wings should be level or not, or wind preassure on the top of the wings.  It all makes sense.  That being said, I trailered mine over 1100 miles with the tailwheel down on the deck.  Most of the ime I was doing 65-75 on the highway.  As far as I can tell nothing was damaged.  So it may put more stresses on the top of the wing in the tail down configuration, but the bird seems to handle it just fine.



Andrew

815TL, Kitfox II, Rotax 582-C

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 6:33 am Post subject: Trailering a Kitfox

More importantly, in my opinion, trailering with the tailwheel on the deck

gives more "weight" to the tail, which is now the leading edge of the shape,

to resist the biggest problem of trailering on highways - those big rigs

that always pass too close trying to figure out just what kind of bug you're

haulin'. I transport my plane, 2 trailered boats (one 25 foot several

tonner), canoes and kayaks on my roof, and building materials of all sorts

(not all at once!). The biggest enemy is the leading edge "push" from that

big rig's flat front, the suction as it passes, and the turbulence in it's

wake. I've watched my trailer(s) swerve with the force and car-topped canoes

strain at the straps.



Personally I want my load to be as heavy and stable as possible, especially

one that sits so high. If I every find a recording strain gauge or scale I

would love to put facts to opinion, but I don't believe there is even the

potential of damaging down-forces with the tail on the deck. The potential

for damaging upward and side forces for a plane travelling flat to the wind

though is real, especially the rapid transition in force vectors from a

passing rig. In my opinion, and physics 101. Strap 'er down, keep 'er

stable, but don't let 'er float.



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa



--

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