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Old subject revisited

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ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:22 pm Post subject: Old subject revisited

Just had an enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts some questions:   

1.      Nitrogen in the tires  

How many use Nitrogen (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I have not flown yet, but I notice that my tires regularly deflate very slowly.  I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through the rubber membrane  Interesting thread on VAF on this.  To what extent does Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list experiences?  

2.      Static wicks  

I always believed I did not need them.  After all, I was not building a plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the hose and metal fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  Greater than 10kV in this apparently!  I expect the static buildup on the plastic paint I now have, especially in the hot, dry, dusty conditions here in South Oz is likely to be quite significant.  Looks like a bit more work on bonding the control surfaces and adding some wicks.  

Will it ever end  . . . .   

Cheers,  

Ron  

-187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I really should just finish and FLY!!)   [quote]"Warning:

The information contained in this email and any attached files is

confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended

recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any

attachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this email

in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been

taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,

however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the

sender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure virus

checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to

your computer."



[b]

rene(at)felker.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:20 pm Post subject: Old subject revisited

  I      have not used Nitrogen in the tires………have not had a      problem keeping them inflated.   

   

2.  Did not put static wicks on the airplane…..having second thoughts.  I do get a P-static buildup and thus can have a lot of static…..hear it on the radio.  It has not gotten real bad, but I do notice it.    

     

Rene'  

801-721-6080  

  

   

--

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:35 pm Post subject: Old subject revisited

Ron,  

                I have no answer for question #1 or #2 but I definitely know the answer to question #3.   

   

Will it ever end…  

   

No  

   

Cheers?  

Robin  

Do Not Archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron

 Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 6:20 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Old subject revisited  

  

  

   

Just had an enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts some questions:   

1.      Nitrogen in the tires 

 How many use Nitrogen (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I have not flown yet, but I notice that my tires regularly deflate very slowly.  I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through the rubber membrane  Interesting thread on VAF on this.  To what extent does Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list experiences?  

2.      Static wicks 

 I always believed I did not need them.  After all, I was not building a plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the hose and metal fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  Greater than 10kV in this apparently!  I expect the static buildup on the plastic paint I now have, especially in the hot, dry, dusty conditions here in South Oz is likely to be quite significant.  Looks like a bit more work on bonding the control surfaces and adding some wicks.  

Will it ever end  . . . .   

Cheers, 

 Ron 

 -187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I really should just finish and FLY!!)    	  Quote: 	
		  "Warning:The information contained in this email and any attached files isconfidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or anyattachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this emailin error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has beentaken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not thesender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure viruschecks are completed before installing any data sent in this email toThe information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
1

      [quote][b]

wayne.e(at)grandecom.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 5:17 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

Ron,

  

 1. I haven't yet put nitrogen in my tires however  yesterday when I went to the hangar to fly my tires were low again and after  some cussing I made the decision that I'm putting nitrogen in the tires yet this  week. I have a good friend who is an A&P and runs an FBO and he maintained  my previous certified planes and I never had this low tire problem. He always  filled my tires then with nitrogen. He told me it will probably stop 75% of the  air loss I'm experiencing.

  

 I'm going to take off the wheel pants and fly over  to a nearby airport and have a shop over there put in the good stuff. All repair  shops should have nitrogen because they need it for the struts on some of the  planes.

  

 2. Yes I did installed static wicks. There was a  write up, I believe from this forum, on where to install them. I  have instructions on this at my hangar if you can't find it. 

  

 Wayne Edgerton N602WT

  

  

  

  

  

             Time:      06:22:44 PM PST  US            Subject:      Old subject    revisited            From:      "McGANN, Ron" <ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com (ron.mcgann(at)baesystems.com)>       

      Just had an enlightening discussion with a  work colleague that prompts

      some  questions:

      

       1.	Nitrogen in the tires

      How many use Nitrogen  (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.   I

      have not flown yet, but I notice that my  tires regularly deflate very

      slowly.   I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through  the

      rubber membrane  Interesting thread  on VAF on this.  To what extent does

       Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list  experiences?

       

      2.	Static  wicks

      I always believed I did not need  them.  After all, I was not building a

       plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used  two

      pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint  job.  Came out pretty good.  When

       vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside  the

      hose and metal fittings is  unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater

       than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a  ground.

      Greater than 10kV in this  apparently!  I expect the static buildup  on

      the plastic paint I now have, especially in  the hot, dry, dusty

      conditions here in South  Oz is likely to be quite significant.   Looks

      like a bit more work on bonding the  control surfaces and adding some

       wicks.

      

      Will  it ever end  . . . .

       

      Cheers,

       Ron

      -187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I  really should just finish and

       FLY!!)



   [quote][b]

speckter(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:27 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

I have had static problems on previous planes and thus bonded and static wicked the 10.  To date no issues, but I don’t expect any either.  

   

Gary Specketer  

40274 flying  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron

 Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 9:20 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Old subject revisited  

  

   

Just had an enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts some questions:   

1.      Nitrogen in the tires 

 How many use Nitrogen (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I have not flown yet, but I notice that my tires regularly deflate very slowly.  I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through the rubber membrane  Interesting thread on VAF on this.  To what extent does Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list experiences?  

2.      Static wicks 

 I always believed I did not need them.  After all, I was not building a plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the hose and metal fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  Greater than 10kV in this apparently!  I expect the static buildup on the plastic paint I now have, especially in the hot, dry, dusty conditions here in South Oz is likely to be quite significant.  Looks like a bit more work on bonding the control surfaces and adding some wicks.  

Will it ever end  . . . .   

Cheers, 

 Ron 

 -187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I really should just finish and FLY!!)    	  Quote: 	
		  "Warning:The information contained in this email and any attached files isconfidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or anyattachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this emailin error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has beentaken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not thesender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure viruschecks are completed before installing any data sent in this email toThe information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
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		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
1

       [quote][b]

msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:34 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

Ron,  

   

  No direct personal experience but I hear that the air stop tubes from Michelin or any other Butyl rubber tubes work pretty well to minimize leaking.  I’ll probably run Nitrogen in mine but I haven’t decided on the delivery method yet.  As I will also transfill my oxy tank I may just get a Nitrogen tank while I’m at it.  You could also take one of those little portable air tanks and go to many tire shops and dealerships and see if they will fill that up for a couple bucks.  Here in the US the big new fad is Nitrogen in auto tires so almost every dealership or tire place has on site Nitrogen separators to fill customer tires for a nice little fee.  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron

 Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:20 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Old subject revisited  

  

  

   

Just had an enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts some questions:   

1.      Nitrogen in the tires 

 How many use Nitrogen (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I have not flown yet, but I notice that my tires regularly deflate very slowly.  I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through the rubber membrane  Interesting thread on VAF on this.  To what extent does Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list experiences?  

2.      Static wicks 

 I always believed I did not need them.  After all, I was not building a plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the hose and metal fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  Greater than 10kV in this apparently!  I expect the static buildup on the plastic paint I now have, especially in the hot, dry, dusty conditions here in South Oz is likely to be quite significant.  Looks like a bit more work on bonding the control surfaces and adding some wicks.  

Will it ever end  . . . .   

Cheers, 

 Ron 

 -187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I really should just finish and FLY!!)    	  Quote: 	
		  "Warning:The information contained in this email and any attached files isconfidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or anyattachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this emailin error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has beentaken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not thesender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure viruschecks are completed before installing any data sent in this email toThe information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
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		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
1

      [quote][b]

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:07 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

I have been having great luck since replacing my tubes with

new ones from Desser Tire.



As for what I fill my tires with, I fill mine with a special

mixture....it's a nitrogen rich mixture.  80% N2, and 20%

O2, roughly...along with a trace amount of C02 and some

other minor gasses.   I trans-fill it from a compressor

in my hangar, through a special hose with what's called a

"chuck", into my tires.   



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Ron,

 

  

 

   No direct personal experience but I hear that the air stop tubes from 

 Michelin or any other Butyl rubber tubes work pretty well to minimize 

 leaking.  I’ll probably run Nitrogen in mine but I haven’t decided on 

 the delivery method yet.  As I will also transfill my oxy tank I may 

 just get a Nitrogen tank while I’m at it.  You could also take one of 

 those little portable air tanks and go to many tire shops and 

 dealerships and see if they will fill that up for a couple bucks.  Here 

 in the US the big new fad is Nitrogen in auto tires so almost every 

 dealership or tire place has on site Nitrogen separators to fill 

 customer tires for a nice little fee.

 

  

 

 Michael

 

  

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *McGANN, Ron

 *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:20 PM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Old subject revisited

 

  

 

 Just had an enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts 

 some questions:

 

 1.      Nitrogen in the tires

 How many use Nitrogen (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I 

 have not flown yet, but I notice that my tires regularly deflate very 

 slowly.  I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through the 

 rubber membrane  Interesting thread on VAF on this.  To what extent does 

 Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list experiences?

 

 2.      Static wicks

 I always believed I did not need them.  After all, I was not building a 

 plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two 

 pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When 

 vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the 

 hose and metal fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater 

 than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  

 Greater than 10kV in this apparently!  I expect the static buildup on 

 the plastic paint I now have, especially in the hot, dry, dusty 

 conditions here in South Oz is likely to be quite significant.  Looks 

 like a bit more work on bonding the control surfaces and adding some wicks.

 

 Will it ever end  . . . .

 

 Cheers,

 Ron

 -187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I really should just finish and FLY!!)

 

 "Warning:

 

 The information contained in this email and any attached files is

 

 confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended

 

 recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any

 

 attachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this email

 

 in error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has been

 

 taken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,

 

 however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not the

 

 sender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure virus

 

 checks are completed before installing any data sent in this email to

 

 your computer."

 

  

 

 * *

 

 * *

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List*

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 *http://forums.matronics.com*

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 **

 

 *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*

 

 **

 

 * *

 

 *

 

 

 *

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 9:19 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

Locally it’s $5.00/tire. It sure would be nice to have better access to our tire valves.  

   

Robin  

Do Not Archive  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:32 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Old subject revisited  

  

  

   

Ron,  

   

  No direct personal experience but I hear that the air stop tubes from Michelin or any other Butyl rubber tubes work pretty well to minimize leaking.  I’ll probably run Nitrogen in mine but I haven’t decided on the delivery method yet.  As I will also transfill my oxy tank I may just get a Nitrogen tank while I’m at it.  You could also take one of those little portable air tanks and go to many tire shops and dealerships and see if they will fill that up for a couple bucks.  Here in the US the big new fad is Nitrogen in auto tires so almost every dealership or tire place has on site Nitrogen separators to fill customer tires for a nice little fee.  

   

Michael  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN, Ron

 Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:20 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Old subject revisited  

  

  

   

Just had an enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts some questions:   

1.      Nitrogen in the tires 

 How many use Nitrogen (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I have not flown yet, but I notice that my tires regularly deflate very slowly.  I've now heard that this may be oxygen leakage through the rubber membrane  Interesting thread on VAF on this.  To what extent does Nitrogen only in the tires reduce deflation?  Any list experiences?  

2.      Static wicks 

 I always believed I did not need them.  After all, I was not building a plastic plane.  After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two pack Acrylic Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When vacuuming the paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the hose and metal fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater than 1/2" between any conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  Greater than 10kV in this apparently!  I expect the static buildup on the plastic paint I now have, especially in the hot, dry, dusty conditions here in South Oz is likely to be quite significant.  Looks like a bit more work on bonding the control surfaces and adding some wicks.  

Will it ever end  . . . .   

Cheers, 

 Ron 

 -187 fiddly bits and paperwork (and I really should just finish and FLY!!)    	  Quote: 	
		  "Warning:The information contained in this email and any attached files isconfidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intendedrecipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or anyattachments is expressly prohibited.  If you have received this emailin error, please notify us immediately. VIRUS: Every care has beentaken to ensure this email and its attachments are virus free,however, any loss or damage incurred in using this email is not thesender's responsibility.  It is your responsibility to ensure viruschecks are completed before installing any data sent in this email toThe information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  The information contained in this email and any attached files is 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
2 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
3 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
4 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
5 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
6 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
7 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  confidential to BAE Systems Australia. If you are not the intended 	
9 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
0 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
1 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
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		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
8 	  Quote: 	
		  recipient, any use, disclosure or copying of this email or any 	
9 	  Quote: 	
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msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:13 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

That's cool, you mix that yourself?  The stuff I normally use is 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and trace amounts of other gases.    LMAO



Michael

Do not archive



--

chuck(at)chuckdirect.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:20 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

I use nitrogen in all my tires, RV9A, RV10, motorcycles, cars,  bicycles, etc.  They still deflate but noticebly (by 50% probably)  slower.  Got some old hospital O2 regulators (distributed the  extras to some flying buds too) and bought a tank, hose and fill from  the local gas distributor.  I think the cost was about $150 total!   

 Chuck

  



  From: Robin Marks (robin1(at)mrmoisture.com) 

 Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 9:18 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com) 

 Subject: RE: Old subject revisited

 



  

Locally  it’s $5.00/tire. It sure would be nice to have better access to our tire  valves. 

  

Robin 

Do  Not Archive 

    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder  (Michael Sausen)

Sent: Friday, January 09, 2009 8:32 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject:  RE: Old subject revisited



 

  

Ron, 

  

   No direct personal experience but I hear that the air stop tubes from Michelin  or any other Butyl rubber tubes work pretty well to minimize leaking.  I’ll  probably run Nitrogen in mine but I haven’t decided on the delivery method  yet.  As I will also transfill my oxy tank I may just get a Nitrogen tank  while I’m at it.  You could also take one of those little portable air  tanks and go to many tire shops and dealerships and see if they will fill that  up for a couple bucks.  Here in the US the big new fad is Nitrogen in auto  tires so almost every dealership or tire place has on site Nitrogen separators  to fill customer tires for a nice little fee. 

  

Michael 

    

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of McGANN,  Ron

Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 8:20 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Old subject  revisited



 

  

Just had an  enlightening discussion with a work colleague that prompts some  questions:  

1.       Nitrogen in the tires 

How many use Nitrogen  (as opposed to compressed air) in the tires.  I have not flown yet, but I  notice that my tires regularly deflate very slowly.  I've now heard that  this may be oxygen leakage through the rubber membrane  Interesting thread  on VAF on this.  To what extent does Nitrogen only in the tires reduce  deflation?  Any list experiences? 

2.       Static wicks 

I always believed I  did not need them.  After all, I was not building a plastic plane.   After adding paint, I have changed my mind!!  I used two pack Acrylic  Urethane on my paint job.  Came out pretty good.  When vacuuming the  paint booth of paint dust, the static build up inside the hose and metal  fittings is unbelievable.  I often see sparks greater than 1/2" between any  conductor on the vacuum cleaner and a ground.  Greater than 10kV in this  apparently!  I expect the static buildup on the plastic paint I now have,  especially in the hot, dry, dusty conditions here in South Oz is likely to be  quite significant.  Looks like a bit more work on bonding the control  surfaces and adding some wicks. 

Will it ever  end  . . . .  

Cheers,  

Ron  

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:43 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

All you need to do is replace van's straight valve tubes with 90 degree 

valve tubes available from Desser. A small hole large enough for a truck 

tire extension takes care of that little task. I haven't done it yet, 

but I will before I assemble the wheels/tires.

Linn

Robin Marks wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Locally it’s $5.00/tire. It sure would be nice to have better access 

 to our tire valves.



 Robin



 Do Not Archive

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

Linn, 

	We looked at the 90 degree valve extension but they would not

work (too close to the center shaft and extra spinning weight). You are

saying that there are tubes with built in 90 degree valves?

http://shop.desser.com/IW_Products.m4p.pvx?;MULTI_ITEM_SUBMIT  (did not

look for exact size)

Rats... I just found them. Sure wish I knew about them before the plane

went to paint... I would have bored an access hole. 



Robin

--

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

How strange.  That sounds like the same stuff I put into my Lycoming....



 



--

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

 I was hoping that didn't go over too many heads. 

Sorry I was a little rough on the percentages. 



For what it's worth, since I started with the different

tubes...in my case they were  15/600-6 "LEAKGUARD"

I usually only fill my tires in the early spring at

condition inspection time, and then perhaps once

in the summer and/or fall.  Really, I haven't been

super bothered by the lack of air fill access in the

wheel fairings, either, because as far as I'm concerned,

we should be looking inside the fairings and inspecting

brakes and things like that at about the same interval

that I end up adding air to the tires.  If I had

super-quick tire fill access, I'd have to fight the

urge to skip a brake check.  Which reminds me, I'm

coming up to that time again, having 170 hours on the

first set and now I'm at 430+.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote] 

 <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

 

 That's cool, you mix that yourself?  The stuff I normally use is

 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide,

 and trace amounts of other gases.    LMAO

 

 Michael Do not archive

 

 --

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: Old subject revisited

PS:  I think maybe we should use Helium. It may leak faster,

but we should get more useful load that way.





Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

[quote] 

 <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>

 

 That's cool, you mix that yourself?  The stuff I normally use is

 78.08% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide,

 and trace amounts of other gases.    LMAO

 

 Michael Do not archive

 

 --

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: Old subject revisited

I bought the tubes with the 90 deg stems but I didn't like the way they fit

the wheel. The stem on the tube came out of the center whereas the wheel has

a hole offset to the side. Then stem was forced out of its natural path in

order to fit the wheel. It appears the wheel needs to be altered to make the

90 deg stem fit. Maybe all 90 deg tubes are not the same. I don't think

there is sufficient room for any screw-on extension to work. 

Albert Gardner

Yuma, AZ



--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 12:59 pm Post subject: Old subject revisited

My mix is about the same (78% nitrogen, 21% Oxygen, 0.9% argon, 0.04% carbon dioxide and 0.06% other) but contains a bit more methane in the trace gases cause of all the beans eaten around here.



William

http://nerv10.com/wcurtis/ 



------

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2009 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: Old subject revisited

As Tim and others point out, if the oxygen really diffused much faster than nitrogen, all you'd have to do is overfill the tires by 20%, and, after a while, they'd be at the correct pressure and 100% nitrogen. (Or let then deflate 20%, the refill with air. You'd then be at 96% nitrogen).



I believe this owt started because the airlines use nitrogen in their tires. But that's to reduce the fire risk (not leakage problems) following a rejected takeoff when the tires can get really hot (and sometimes blow a "fuse plug").



The new leakstop tubes are a real improvement.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

nukeflyboy

Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 162
Location: Granbury, TX

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Old subject revisited

Air is funny stuff, but it acts predictably.  It is a fair assumption that oxygen doesn't react with the tire appreciably over a 30 day period, therefore the rate of deflation is a function of the diffusion rate across the membrane.  In these physical exchanges, molecular size matters.  Nitrogen gas (N2) has a molecular weight of 28, while oxygen gas (O2)has a molecular weight of 32.  This reflects a difference in size of the molecule and based on this you would predict that nitrogen will leak out faster.  I really think that all this effort to put N2 in your tires is bad science and wasted effort, or perhaps a way to extract a few more $ from you from the A&P.  As the previous post points out, N2 can be used but it is driven by other reasons, not leak rate.  



By the way, humid air is less dense than dry air for the same reason.  Water molecules with a molecular weight of 18 displace N2/O2 molecules which have a proportional molecular weight of about 31 making the average fluid denity less.  The same principle is behind reverse osmosis units.

_________________
Dave Moore
RV-6 built and sold
RV-10 built and flying

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