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Heel brakes or ???
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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 2:23 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

New Zealand { home of Richard Pearse} who left the ground in powered fight

in March 1903.Had some control problems.>>



Yeah!



If you seen the bits of his plane in the Auckland Museum?  As unlikely a 

pile of scrap to make it into the air as you can imagine. That propeller!



Cheers



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:13 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging...   that does not

infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard,   just

different.>>



No, of course it doen`t but the tricyle gear is so obnviously better in all 

respects that all other things being equal you wouldn`t choose a taildragger 

would you.?



Cheers



Pat

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:12 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

> the tricyle gear is so obnviously better in all

 	  Quote: 	
		   respects that all other things being equal you wouldn`t choose a 

 taildragger would you.?

 >
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Pat


	




Patrick/Gang:



For my kind of flying, my mkIII tail dragger does a much better job than a 

tri gear.



john h

mkIII

Wendover, UT - Wish I hadn't eaten all those crab legs last night.  Ugh!

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 4:39 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

Pat, throwing a little kindling on a dwindling flame?

BB

do not archive

On 3, Oct 2009, at 7:13 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging...   that  

 does not

 infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard,   just

 different.>>



 No, of course it doen`t but the tricyle gear is so obnviously  

 better in all respects that all other things being equal you  

 wouldn`t choose a taildragger would you.?



 Cheers



 Pat

by0ung(at)brigham.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:56 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

No, of course it doen`t but the tricyle gear is so obnviously better in all   

respects that all other things being equal you wouldn`t choose a taildragger   

would you.?  

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.  

   
	


I nose dragger is heavier, flies slower and bounces around like  a wallaby on a rough field. There are some things they do better…  but not in all respects.  

   

Boyd  

Do not archive   

       [quote][b]

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Heel brakes or ???

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  Just because YOU don't like something, Mike, doesn't make it 

substandard.  



-Dana (who PREFERS taildraggers with open cockpits, control sticks, and 

heel brakes)



	




I like toe brakes, that does not mean much, but the entire aviation world has accepted this standard, and that means a lot.  You try to say that just because YOU don't like them its not important,  well its the entire aviation community...  Be honest.



You go on to try to change this discussion into something about Taildragers, Open Cockpits, control sticks, etc.  which are different types of aircraft and have NOTHING to do about standardized controls.    Don't put words into my mouth and try to imply that I am against different types of aircraft, that is just lame on your part.  



People see this type of Junior High clique behavior, where the same certain few are so intent on being popular, that you attack anything posted by someone like me that is not part of the " In Group ".    Why do you think this Kolb list has very little activity ?   This list has turned into the same few guys so intent on harassing and discrediting anything that I post, that you will post bad advice and bad information in favor of your personal politics.    People see this, and are afraid to post here.   John H is right on one thing, not everyone here is unfriendly, but there are a few here that have created an unfriendly atmosphere on the list, at the expense of everyone.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

Matt Dralle
Site Admin

Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 26477
Location: Livermore CA USA

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:04 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

At 09:36 AM 10/3/2009  Saturday, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

Dana wrote:

> Just because YOU don't like something, Mike, doesn't make it 

> substandard.  

> 

People see this type of Junior High clique behavior, where the same certain few are so intent on being popular, that you attack anything posted by someone like me that is not part of the " In Group ".    Why do you think this Kolb list has very little activity ?   This list has turned into the same few guys so intent on harassing and discrediting anything that I post, that you will post bad advice and bad information in favor of your personal politics.    People see this, and are afraid to post here.   John H is right on one thing, not everyone here is unfriendly, but there are a few here that have created an unfriendly atmosphere on the list, at the expense of everyone.

Mike

Are you guys fricken kidding me?  Why must this BS continue?  Always with the mud slinging.  How many times to I have to step in and stop this?  Why must I baby-sit you all the time?

No more post like this, period.

Matt Dralle

Matronics Email List Administrator

_________________
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:07 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

Pat

For a handful of good reasons, taildraggers are 'better' aircraft.  

I'd pick one ever time.

like a Kolb (now it's Kolb-related!)

You say "tricycle gear is so obviously better in all respects"?? I  

don't agree.

Russ

do not archive



On Oct 3, 2009, at 7:13 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 a lot of plane manufactures have gone to nose dragging...   that  

 does not

 infer that all tail draggers are obsolete, or sub standard,   just

 different.>>



 No, of course it doen`t but the tricyle gear is so obnviously  

 better in all respects that all other things being equal you  

 wouldn`t choose a taildragger would you.?



 Cheers



 Pat

WillUribe(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:19 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

Greetings,

  

 IMHO my heel brakes work just fine, I have no need to change them to toe  brakes. As soon as I got used to them it was not a problem  for me.  The Piper Colt I also fly has no heel brakes or toe brakes, it  also took some getting used to but it is no longer a problem for me.   

 Now what was the question? [img]http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d201a5/02[/img]

  

 Regards,

 Will Uribe 

 FireStar II N4GU

 El Paso, TX

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Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Heel brakes or ???

Here's a couple of pix of my "substandard" heel brake installation for anybody who's interested.  Not saying they're "better", never did, but they work just fine for me.



-Dana



Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely.

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flykolb(at)pa.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:17 pm Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

At TOK we had tried toe brakes on a M3 and none of us liked them - not even

a little.  When you pushed on the toe brake, the whole pedal assembly would

tend to move away, so you had to press on the opposite pedal with a

balancing force.  This required very deft feet. We didn't leave them on for

long - the heels worked much much better.  Perhaps we could have fine-tuned

things to work better, but we felt the heels worked so much better, that we

were disinclined to spend any more time on the toe brakes.



Dennis

aoldman(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 10:25 pm Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

That may be so Pat,but we do have a couple of replica aircraft of Richards 

design in the hanger of old stuff ,one of them has a engine built to his 

design and they show promise. Working rudder, elevators and real wing 

controls ,not wing warping , it has a tricycle undercarriage { you know the 

one with the trainer wheel out front }  and that funny propeller does 

produce some interesting thrust.

Downunder

MK111c

---

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:56 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

HI Robert,,

Now , would I?

/.. I did qualify it by saying `all other things being equal`



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:12 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

For my kind of flying, my mkIII tail dragger does a much better job than a

tri gear.>>



Hi John,

I just know I am going to regret starting this.  Why?. In what respect is a 

tail dragger better?



Enquiringly ( and really envying you the crab)



Pat

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:24 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

It really doesn't make a difference to me Heal or Toe Brakes when I had small tires on the brakes worked ok now I have bigger tires on the brakes dont seem to work as well, I made a change and got a reaction, now I have to make another change to get the reaction I am looking for

    

   Heres a Few pic's Flying around Maine   in a Kolb MK3C See attachements 

 

   	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  	
	
   	  Quote: 	
		  Ellery Flying around Maine

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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 4:44 am Post subject: Heel Brakes or ???

  Nice photos, Ellery.  Looks a lot like my area in Vermont.  Not a lot of places to land.  Is that an electronic compass?

 

do not archive

                                             Bill Sullivan

                                             Windsor Locks, Ct

russkinne(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 5:50 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

Pat

Briefly, and not to start a long thread --

Kolbs are pusher taildraggers; so this is Kolb-related. Of course  

pushers are different from tractors, but most GA taildraggers are  

tractors, and IMHO:

are much better for any kind of bush flying; keeps the prop up out of  

the brush.

do better landing on soft ground; nosewheels are usually smaller than  

mains and can dig in more easily

have less tendency to nose-over

for photography, gear leg is FORWARD of wing-strut, and out of the way

no nose gear & strut right behind prop, in the hi-speed airflow, to  

produce lots of drag

easier to hand-prop as the prop is higher off the ground

easier to get in & out of, esp for creaky or disabled pax

if tailwheel is flat, broken or missing, you can still fly,   

carefully. Not so with nosewheels.

Taildraggers just LOOK so much better!

So. As I said, just IMHO

Fly & enjoy; winter's coming

Russ



On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:04 AM, pj.ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 For my kind of flying, my mkIII tail dragger does a much better job  

 than a

 tri gear.>>



 Hi John,

 I just know I am going to regret starting this.  Why?. In what  

 respect is a tail dragger better?



 Enquiringly ( and really envying you the crab)



 Pat

elleryweld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:17 am Post subject: Heel Brakes or ???

no thats a digital Temp guage

    

   Ellery

 

 

 --

jbhart(at)onlyinternet.ne
Guest

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:50 am Post subject: Heel brakes or ???

Advantage (disadvantage?) of a nose wheel is that one tends to drive the 

aircraft on the ground rather than fly it on the ground.  This can cause 

problems when taxiing in gusty winds.  Also another advantage 

(disadvantage?) is that due to the cg being ahead of the main landing gear, 

one can land the aircraft in a crab with less tendency to ground loop.  When 

this is done there is a greater chance to fold the gear due to the increased 

side loading and stress on the landing gear.



When flying a tail dragger configuration, one readily learns to pay 

attention to flying the aircraft on the ground, and not to land in a crab.  

Glider pilots are the best versed on flying on the ground, as they have only 

one main wheel.  Also, with the cg behind the main gear, the load 

distribution upon takeoff rotation favors the tail dragger, in that, it 

allows one to get off soft field easier than a nose wheel aircraft.  As one 

tries to early rotate a nose wheel aircraft with the cg ahead of the main 

gear, much more weight is shifted to the main gear than with a tail dragger.



In side profile drag, I don't know if there is advantage in either 

configuration.  The tail dragger has a longer wheel base.  And so the tail 

wheel may give better ground stability than a nose wheel.  But it may be a 

toss up as to which is better.



Over all I like the tail dragger, as I believe it makes a better pilot out 

you as it demands that you continue to fly the aircraft while on the ground.



FWIW - a couple of hours work away from first start up on the MZ 34



Jack B. Hart FF004

Winchester, IN

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:13 pm Post subject: Re: Heel brakes or ???

 	  Dana wrote: 	
		  Here's a couple of pix of my "substandard" heel brake installation for anybody who's interested.  Not saying they're "better", never did, but they work just fine for me.



-Dana



Growing old is inevitable, but we can stay immature indefinitely. 	




Dana, that is sweet, much better than the stock cable operated setup. I saved those pix, I can actually see myself liking that, thanks.

(Now if John will ever get over his crabs and go home so he can post some pix...)  

 



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldpoops)

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