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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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 Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:55 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
[quote][b]
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ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:05 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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I agree totally Scott, most people aren't familiar with root cause analysis...If you have been involved with any sort of "incident" this type of investigation, many times shows weak spots not necessarily the result of a poor design but in the operation of the designed equipment or training. If many doors were just flying the RV-10 that showed a weakness in the product then the root cause would lean towards product defect. Could the latch system be designed better? Maybe...I go back to my own also near miss....flying with a friend and fellow pilot with many hours of fighter time failed to engage the aft pin...previously I didn't think I could do that on my RV, but he did it and I immediately saw his door locked light on as we taxied out...system worked but he never saw it...I did...and when I said check your door he was dumbfounded...said he never saw the light although it was bright and shining right there above the MFD. We need to quit expecting our equipment to be fool proof, use the checklist, don't assume Sierra and check and double check. Someone once told me their thoughts on time management that applies pretty close to flying..." You need a system.,.all systems are pretty good...unless you don't use them"Rick S
Sent via BlackBerry by AT&TFrom: Scott Schmidt <scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:30:38 -0800 (PST)
To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net (jimberry(at)qwest.net)>
Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later today.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
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jdriggs49(at)msn.com
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jcumins(at)jcis.net
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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Deems that's a great idea.
John G. Cumins
--
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rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 3:59 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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Scott;
I have to admit I've been thinking about this SB as well. I was actually waiting for Tim to chime in and was quite glad to see your response.
Thanks for taking time to give that feedback.
Pascal
From: Scott Schmidt (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:30 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidtscottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
[quote][b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:17 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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Beings I dont have an outside passenger door handle anyway.............guess I will not have an outside safety latch on the passenger door either.
Let's get creative with the looks of the outside latch...............think I will make it look like the arm on a Vegas slot machine. Every time you pull it down to get in you are taking a gamble OR by getting in and flyng the RV10 you have hit the Jackpot of all 4 place planes!
Dean
805HL "400 Hours with a goal of 500 by 2011"
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
[quote][b]
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ddddsp1(at)juno.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:36 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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I fully agree with Scott and his post. I would add to the reasons the doors may be opening is poor construction and/or amending the door pin measurements to make the pins not protrude out so far and scratch the paint when shut accidently. Look at some of the GAPS in these doors on some finished planes and the way the door seal is attached.
These planes are not aerobatic either. Doors made per the plans and flown per the specs will not accidently come open during flight. I am sure LIABILITY is driving this SB and I am also sure the RV community will engineer a much better fix (if needed) than what is proposed.
My 2 cents to a senseless issue.
DEAN
____________________________________________________________
Weight Loss Program
Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here!
[quote][b]
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Jim Berry
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 237
Location: Denver
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Door safety latch |
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The beauty of being experimental is that we can each decide whether we want to install the safety latch; although your insurance company might disagree if you had a door opening incident.
Deems idea of a grab strap would be very easy to incorporate. Since the latch kit includes an aluminum sheet on both sides of the fiberglass, it would make a good hard point to mount a handle.
When the door handle is opened, the latch allows the bottom of the door to open approximately 1/2 to 3/4 inch.
Someone commented that the latch cannot be opened from the inside. Not true, just lift the latch.
The exterior latch is 1/8 inch thick, and requires very little force to open. It could probably be smallified top to bottom without compromising strength or function.
Someone with CNC capabilities could make a much more attractive version of the latch.
Jim Berry
40482
N15JB
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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ricksked(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:48 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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There is no way I’m putting that piece of Frankenstein crap on my aircraft. Jeeez…WTF is Van’s thinking except putting this out to cover their ass. I think a bungee cord between the two door handles inside would work much better. Sorry but I’ll check the lights, check the doors and continue on. So far my policy and procedures have worked fine and have proven that too!!
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net (jimberry(at)qwest.net)>
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List Web href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===========
[quote][b]
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jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:55 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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Anyone thinking of integrating the interior aspect of the latch with
the fore/aft movement of the door pin and omit the exterior aspect of
the latch all together?
Jeff Carpenter
40304
Suddenly happy my doors aren't quite finished yet
On Jan 15, 2010, at 11:13 AM, Jim Berry wrote:
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partner14
Joined: 12 Jan 2008
Posts: 540
Location: Granbury Texas
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 6:32 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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|
Rick, I totally agree with you.... although my Van's idiot lights are not functioning. Van's sent out a number of micro switches which were ass backwards. I tried everything to get them to work, then just gave up on them. Then Van's sends out a bulletin saying if you received a specific part numbered micro switch, let them know and they'd send out the correct ones. Well, in the meantime, my pre-takeoff procedure was, and is, to personally verify that each door is totally closed, and locked.... pretty simple... I do it EVERYTIME. After a very short time, it's a total habit. That coupled with the fact that I threw away the Van's plastic/nylon receivers and replaced them with the billeted replacements, leaves me feeling very confident with my RV10 doors.
My 4cents worth....
Don McDonald
--- On Fri, 1/15/10, Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
From: Rick <ricksked(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: Re: Door safety latch
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Friday, January 15, 2010, 4:46 PM
There is no way I’m putting that piece of Frankenstein crap on my aircraft. Jeeez…WTF is Van’s thinking except putting this out to cover their ass. I think a bungee cord between the two door handles inside would work much better. Sorry but I’ll check the lights, check the doors and continue on. So far my policy and procedures have worked fine and have proven that too!!
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 2:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
| Quote: |
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blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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_________________
Don A. McDonald
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ronrvbuilder(at)bigpond.c
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:02 pm Post subject: Door safety latch |
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I would be really interested in hearing from anyone with a background in insurance. Yes we are the builder, and only airworthiness bodies may be able to ground aircraft. But if you intentionally fail to comply with an instruction from the kit supplier and a door departs in flight, what are the chances of a successful claim??
Cheers,
Ron
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2010 9:53 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
> --> RV10-List message posted by: "Jim Berry" <jimberry(at)qwest.net (jimberry(at)qwest.net)>
>
> Attached are photos of the new door safety latch, which I think are self explanatory. It is my understanding that everyone with a finish kit will have their parts and drawings by the end of next week. The only thing I would consider changing is to increase the angle between the legs of the springs that you will fabricate. My personal preference would be for a stronger spring loading of the latch. I don't have a way to scan the large format drawings, but will try to photograph them and get them posted later today.
>
> Jim Berry
> 40482
> N15JB
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=281668#281668
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0441_836.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0440_915.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0439_172.jpg
>
| Quote: |
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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[quote][b] --> http://forums.matronics.com -Matt href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c===========
[quote][b]
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flysrv10(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:14 am Post subject: Door safety latch |
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I am not in the insurance business but I can tell you that I had a prompt, fair and no-fault settlement with my insurance company and my insurance rate has decreased every year!
I not trying to influence anyone's decision on installing the SB but I am with Scott - I in't doing it!
He has described the circumstance under which my door departed and the functionality of the warning lights very accurately. His check list also looks exactly like mine.
Do not fly the plane without the warning lights, don't skip lines on your check list and if you want "belts and suspenders" instal the latch.
One last thing: Let's not wake up the insurance companies and have them tell us what we need to do with our planes.
Do not Archive.
On Jan 15, 2010, at 10:28 PM, Ron McGann wrote:
| Quote: | I would be really interested in hearing from anyone with a background in insurance. Yes we are the builder, and only airworthiness bodies may be able to ground aircraft. But if you intentionally fail to comply with an instruction from the kit supplier and a door departs in flight, what are the chances of a successful claim??
Cheers,
Ron
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DLM
Sent: Saturday, 16 January 2010 9:53 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: RE: Re: Door safety latch
Fortunately the "mandatory " nature of this does not apply nor does the compliance timeframe. undoubtedly there will be builders who will offer the obligatory "yes sir three bags full" but this should be considered for each particular situation and aircraft. After all, the beauty of this is that the builder is the manufacturer. You did specify that you or your organization was the manufacturer on the airworthiness forms.
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Schmidt
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2010 3:31 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch(I posted this at VAF, I also am not very impressed)
I am going to have to think about this SB before installing.
It would have been nice to talk with the whole community of RV-10 builders before launching this SB. I do not feel it is necessary and is just an extra device that if not installed properly will not function correctly I would suspect. If you drive to root cause on the door issue it comes down to people not installing the warning lights, and not properly completing their pre-flight.
I don't want to offend anyone that has had their door come off but I have heard many stories about the doors that have come off, especially the one that hit the horizontal stabilizer and there were many other factors involved with that incident. Most of them will admit that the door was never fully closed before taking off. All of them should have been prevented through proper preflight and checklists.
If the current system is installed correctly, the indicator lights installed, it is very unlikely and almost impossible to have a problem. The only way for the door to open is if you squeezed the interlock on the handle and opened the door. I know there are many RV-10's flying around with no indicator lights on the doors and I don't understand why. They work so great. On my doors if the pin moves 1/8" away from fully closed the lights come on.
My preflight includes the following:
-Confirm door handle has locked into place
-Check all four corners for any obvious gap
-Check door ajar light
-Before takeoff, check all warning lights (includes the door ajar light)
If the proximity sensors are installed correctly it is IMPOSSIBLE not to have each of the four pins in their proper spot. If one is caught outside the cabin (which has happened to me when passengers try to shut the door before I get there) the light is on and there is an obvious gap.
Another concern I read about is the handle not locking into place. If yours does not, take it apart and fix it. Once mine snaps into place it will not rotate and is very safe.
I may find that this is a great addition after I have played with someones door that has this new addition but I won't be adding this to my experimental plane anytime soon. I worry about emergencies and having someone on the outside who is trying to get me and my family out try to understand that you have to lift the little handle, push the button and rotate the handle.
I agree that the door can be improved but this is a very poor band-aid. I don't want to get flamed here, I just want new builders to understand that the doors are not unsafe and if installed correctly with the warning lights and properly locking handles they are safe. New builders have this perception that the doors need a 100% redesign, and I don't want anyone to be scared off.
Scott Schmidt
scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com (scottmschmidt(at)yahoo.com)
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Fri, January 15, 2010 3:01:38 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Door safety latch
--> RV10-List message posted by: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
I find it rather ludicrous to build an efficient airplane only to hang the handle and a speed brake on the outside of the door. IMHO, it's a poor solution at best.
Linn
Jim Berry wrote:
[url=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List]
| Quote: | [b]
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List
blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://forums.matronics.com
style="color: blue; text-decoration: underline; ">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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[quote][b]
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