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trim indicator

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steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:57 am Post subject: trim indicator

I have noticed that my trim LED has begun to  play up with several of the lights not showing up. Is this a problem others have  had and has anyone looked at alternatives?

 Steve Pitt

 G-SMDH

   [quote][b]

Rocketman

Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 87
Location: USA, Earth

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 7:51 am Post subject: trim indicator

Steve,



Half of my lights are out.  I only get lights in cruise.  Replacement is 

over a hundred bucks...



Jeff - Baby Blue



On 9/23/2010 9:51 AM, Steven Pitt wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I have noticed that my trim LED has begun to play up with several of the

 lights not showing up. Is this a problem others have had and has anyone

 looked at alternatives?

 Steve Pitt

 G-SMDH



 *

 *





 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 8:06 am Post subject: trim indicator

Steve,

Mine did the same thing. I just push on the LED's with my finger and  

they all come back on. I think it's a printed circuit thing on the  

display.

Jeff R.  N128LJ Gold Rush

On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:24 AM, Jeff B wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Steve,

 Half of my lights are out.  I only get lights in cruise.   

 Replacement is over a hundred bucks...

 Jeff - Baby Blue

 On 9/23/2010 9:51 AM, Steven Pitt wrote:

> I have noticed that my trim LED has begun to play up with several  

> of the

> lights not showing up. Is this a problem others have had and has  

> anyone

> looked at alternatives?

> Steve Pitt

> G-SMDH

>

> *

> *

>

>

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

>

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:53 am Post subject: trim indicator

I have serviced a few of these already.  One was mine, right out of the box.



In my case, one LED at the extreme range of travel would not light

sometimes. 

All it required was a touch up of solder on one of the terminals on the back

of the bar display, inside the unit.



The other one was in someone else's plane, with quite a few hours. The

symptom was that the two LED's (segment lights) in the middle would not

light up. These two segments corresponded with cruise settings. I was sure

that it was the dot/bar driver IC inside. On further inspection, it turned

out to be that the two LED's on the lighted display were blown and the

Integrated circuit was just fine.  Most LED's should last 100,000 hours.

WOW, that was a stunner! (it could be that they are driven at high current

levels, for maximum brightness in the cockpit on sunny days..but I did not

check) Thus in this case, a new $2 10-segment Light display was called for.



 	  Quote: 	
		  From Jeff R's symptoms:

I am almost positive that based on the intermittent symptoms in Gold Rush,
	


it will just require a solder touch-up inside the display unit. Cost: about

1 cent worth of solder.



In the other two cases, there is not enough info to go on. If the LED's

sometimes still work (from hand tapping), it is probably a solder Job. Tap

on the display unit while it is operating, to see if you can get all of the

LED's to come on. Once is enough, even if only a split second. It verifies

the LED (Light Emitting Diode) is not burned out.



An intermittent problem in flight that is not resolved by tapping on the

display, could also reside in the position feedback inside the servo itself,

back on the rear bulkhead, though I have as yet to see that failure. 



It is quite a simple circuit inside these display units. I used to play with

the exact same circuit on a solder-less breadboard...way back in High

School. In fact, I built a display for my Ford Pinto to verify the voltage

in the car, just for fun. A cassette tape holder served as the case for it.

If memory serves, it fell out of its berth and onto the floor when the car

got rear-ended...



Regards,



Greg Fuchs, A050

steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:26 am Post subject: Trim indicator

I am surprised and disappointed by the number of  replies I received to my query about LEDs packing up. Thankful for the number of  replies but disappointed that so many people have had or are having problems  with this part. At $100 a pop this does not seem right. Has anyone contacted Ray  Allen to ask why?

 Thanks especially to Greg for the detail and  potential repair strategy. We will have a look at that more in the  UK.

 Steve Pitt

 G-SMDH

   [quote][b]

terrys(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:51 am Post subject: Trim indicator

Hi Steve,  

   

I didn’t reply to your earlier email, but thought I would this time.  We also had the display go bad and replaced it.  It has been OK since.  One thing we notice is that the display is very sensitive to the radio, when we transmit, the LEDs flicker.  It might be that the long wiring run back to the tail is picking up enough RF to burn the things out.  Maybe the wiring needs shielding.  Just a thought.  

   

Regards,  

Terry  

A135/N135TD  

   

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt

 Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 10:22 AM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Trim indicator  

  

  

     

I am surprised and disappointed by the number of replies I received to my query about LEDs packing up. Thankful for the number of replies but disappointed that so many people have had or are having problems with this part. At $100 a pop this does not seem right. Has anyone contacted Ray Allen to ask why?  

    

Thanks especially to Greg for the detail and potential repair strategy. We will have a look at that more in the UK.  

    

Steve Pitt  

    

G-SMDH  

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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: Trim indicator

On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:46 AM, Terry Seaver (terrys) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Maybe the wiring needs shielding. 	




	...Bingo!...(?)...(at) RR I heard someone recommend shielding ALL wires...(?)

Fred

 [quote][b]

steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Trim indicator

Thanks Dale - it is good to see the power of the  forum and thanks for taking the initiative. I will contact Scott.

 My lights probably were issued by Europa in  1998 but I have only flown for the last 4 years (220 hours and  smiling).

 Regards

 Steve Pitt

 [quote]   ---

air.guerner(at)orange.fr
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:36 am Post subject: trim indicator

Hi Steve,



I have the same problem with my yaw trim indicator which I installed  

about two years ago. The pitch trim indicator which is ten years and  

800 flight hours old is still fine. May be  this indicates a decline  

in manufacturing quality of this product.



Remi



<<<<<I have noticed that my trim LED has begun to play up with several  

of the

lights not showing up. Is this a problem others have had and has anyone

looked at alternatives?>>>>>>>>

gregoryf.flyboy(at)comcas
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:36 am Post subject: trim indicator

I did not intend to knock the company around, as I personally don't feel

there is much of a problem here. Others may think as they wish, of course.

There are a lot of these in use, and there are bound to be some failures.

Imagine how many would be failing if there were a billion of them sold. A

percentage of units failing would be a more meaningful number to look at.

The second failed unit I worked on was not from a Europa, but another

well-known kit manufacturer with many many hours on the clock.   I still

consider my out-of-box failure (shipped in late 2001) an outlier of sorts,

and that most of these work fine at installation. EVERYTHING runs down or

wears out eventually.. Its just a question of how long.  

Greg

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 805

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:40 am Post subject: Trim indicator

Hi Fred"...Bingo!...(?)...(at) RR I heard someone recommend shielding ALL wires...(?) "Not a great idea to shield power cable for Kunzleman strobes, thats for sure. It brought a tremendous amount of noise into the radios! Twisted pair is the secret. Here was effort:http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31409Ron Parigoris   [quote][b]

fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:09 am Post subject: Trim indicator

On Sep 24, 2010, at 4:00 PM, rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Not a great idea to shield power cable for Kunzleman strobes, thats  

 for sure. It brought a tremendous amount of noise into the radios!


	


Ron...now that IS a surprise...Kunzleman ships w/ shielded cable, and  

I would have thought that strobe wiring would be the one place where  

shielding would be essential...I understand proper grounding of  

shielded cable is critical, but my thoughts on all things electrical  

however should be taken w/ many grains of salt, as my knowledge could  

fit on the head of a pin.



Fred

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 805

Posted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:23 am Post subject: Re: trim indicator

Hi Fred

On the Kunzleman strobes shielded wire should be used for the high voltage output of the power supply. 



I tried using shielded wire for the supply side and it caused major problems. As a matter of fact untwisted wires for the supply side worked better than the shielded wire (but still poor).



Here's what worked for us:

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31474

http://www.europaowners.org/forums/gallery2.php?g2_itemId=31477



Not what you would think.



Ron Parigoris

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