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japhillipsga(at)aol.com
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 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need. I have a 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get rough, loose power and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I learned that the Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced the SCAT tubing with a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was that intake air from the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not smoothly and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands from just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose bend(probably 6 inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.This allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great. Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing might be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or colder. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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I'm on here all the while, sorry.
I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only thing it can be is the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the carby turning trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to see if you can make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there anything at all you can play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the inlet pipe isn't an option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done just about everything you could think of, finding something that has some effect at all is the next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that might
The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can be improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
Good luck, CJ
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of japhillipsga(at)aol.com
Sent: 18 June 2011 07:24
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need. I have a 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get rough, loose power and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I learned that the Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced the SCAT tubing with a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was that intake air from the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not smoothly and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands from just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose bend(probably 6 inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.This allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great. Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing might be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or colder. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com>
To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years of experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all the other problems.... 
Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the problem moves to another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system is diabolical.
Martin
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>
J....
Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
chris ambrose
Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
N327CS
|
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the cause:
I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly and work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they had seen similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have passed through their
establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe they're stumped speechless 
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see previous attached pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift and a *lean* mixture
on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do I
need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn off the charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to normal, probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to foul. I just wish I could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
--- Steven Wright
====================================
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
====================================
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[quote]
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:13 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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J,
Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in the rubber coupling to see what effect it may have. If it has any effect then it may well give you an idea as to what the problem is. To me, it is not the ignition.
Let us know what you find....
Martin
On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
[quote] I'm on here all the while, sorry.
I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only thing it can be is the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the carby turning trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to see if you can make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there anything at all you can play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the inlet pipe isn't an option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done just about everything you could think of, finding something that has some effect at all is the next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that might
The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can be improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
Good luck, CJ
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of japhillipsga(at)aol.com (japhillipsga(at)aol.com)
Sent: 18 June 2011 07:24
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need. I have a 3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get rough, loose power and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I learned that the Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced the SCAT tubing with a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was that intake air from the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not smoothly and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands from just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose bend(probably 6 inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.This allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great. Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing might be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or colder. Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)>
To: jabiruengine-list <jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)>
Sent: Fri, Jun 17, 2011 5:36 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Help! 3300 rough running puzzle.
J, it must be frustrating not having any of the engine gurus offer years of experience in solving this problem. Maybe they are too busy with all the other problems...
Anyway, have you tried tilting the carb in its mount to see if the problem moves to another cylinder. it is a know problem that the Jab inlet system is diabolical.
Martin
On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 11:36 PM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>
On 06/16/2011 11:16 PM, ces308 wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "ces308"<ces308(at)ldaco.com (ces308(at)ldaco.com)>
J....
Did you ever figure out what the problem was???
chris ambrose
Kolb M3X/Jabiru A-2200 191.0 hrs
N327CS
|
Hi Chris...
No, I've only been able to eliminate a bunch of items as *not* being the cause:
I've been hoping that the two or three guys who monitor this list regularly and work
on [Jabiru] engines for a living would contribute. Hoping that maybe they had seen similar
symptoms in one of their hundreds or thousands of engines that have passed through their
establishments... I see them chiming on other issues all the time. Maybe they're stumped speechless
The issue: *both* #3 plugs equally sooty, all other plugs light tan (see previous attached pic)
Here's what I've tried:
- leak down test consistently good, both cold and warm
- h.t. wires to cyl. #3 swapped for #4's. #3 plugs still sooty
- distributor innards checked (both would have to have same #3 issue)
- all valve springs checked, all lifters checked for soft or collapsed
- air gap set to 0.010"
- new plugs (obviously)
- other miscellaneous checks, such as h.t. wire seating, etc.
What I haven't yet tried:
- examining the cam. Wouldn't a worn cam lobe result in not enough lift and a *lean* mixture
on that cylinder?
- using a vacuum gauge. Where could I connect it (no Bing, remember) ? Do I
need to drill and weld in a nipple in the intake manifold?
So the question stands. What could cause either:
- a single cylinder of six to run so rich as to actually foul *both* plugs
or
- the two plugs of the single cylinder not to fire sufficiently to burn off the charge
...keeping in mind the trouble-shooting items I have already eliminated...
So far, I've flown about an hour since my pre-flight mag test went back to normal, probably
as a result of replacing #3 plugs, likely one or both were fouled.
But my confidence level is low, as I wait for the current #3 plugs to foul. I just wish I could
discover the reason for this behaviour!
Thanks to all for the input!
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I took a course in speed waiting. Now I can wait an hour
in only ten minutes.
--- Steven Wright
====================================
-
ine-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
====================================
MS -
k">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
e -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================
tor?JabiruEngine-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?JabiruEngine-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
bution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
|
[b]
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jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:49 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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|
On 06/18/2011 04:10 AM, Martin Hone wrote:
| Quote: | J,
Both the experts and non-experts have suggested rotating the carb in the rubber coupling
to see what effect it may have. If it has any effect then it may well give you an idea
as to what the problem is. To me, it is not the ignition.
Let us know what you find....
Martin
|
Thanks for all the responses. I will try rotating the AeroCarb slightly to see if I can
lean out the 1-3-5 side and enrichen the 2-4-6
side (which *does* run hotter). I can see this working for a bank, but just one cylinder
in a bank? But it's easy enough to try...
I'm feeling slightly better about this issue for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I've now
put a couple of hours of flying, both around the patch
and some longer excursions. The rough running has not returned, and my pre-flight mag
checks are still good. Secondly, I made
a 30 minute flight yesterday to the local 100LL bar. I'd been using Shell VeePower (93
octane, no ethanol) so far this season (I normally stick with 100LL).
On the way there, #3 cyl's EGTs were some 20-30 degrees C (68-86 F) less than the average
of the others, consistent with a richer mixture. But
after filling with 100LL, the flight home showed #3's EGTs right there with nall the
others. I haven't yet checked the plugs of #3, but
I'm optimistic that they will be in line with the other plugs when I do. Not sure *why*
the 100LL would have selectively affected #3, however. I'll keep you posted.
And I do think I will make the change to Iridium plugs eventually
Thanks again. Some more in-line comments follow:
| Quote: | On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 5:50 PM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com
<mailto:clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>> wrote:
I'm on here all the while, sorry.
|
Yes, Clive, I realize you've been here all the while. Thanks!
| Quote: | I'm with the shy guy, given all you have tried and found the only thing it can be is
the way the fuel is hitting the induction pipes. I did mention the carby turning
trick at the beginning, not as a solution but something to try to see if you can
make any change that was before I knew the set up. Is there anything at all you can
play about with to see if this is the issue? The cross in the inlet pipe isn't an
option? I know it was suggested some time back as well.
|
True. My induction side is pretty simple: an AeroCarb is connected to the intake manifold
with about a 3" rubber coupling. A K&N filter is directly
attached to the intake side of the AeroCarb. I could maybe try the 'cross' divider
inserted into the short rubber coupler length...
| Quote: |
There's a guy on another list trying to fix a radio and he's done just about
everything you could think of, finding something that has some effect at all is the
next step, won't fix it but might lead on to something else that might
The throttle thing, is there anything to the way it works that can be
improved/inspected/changed/turned around.....dickered with?
|
Not really. The AeroCarb uses a slide for throttle control, I can't think of anything to
dicker with
| Quote: |
Good luck, CJ
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com>
[mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com
<mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of
*japhillipsga(at)aol.com <mailto:japhillipsga(at)aol.com>
*Sent:* 18 June 2011 07:24
*To:* jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com>
*Subject:* Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J, I pretty much keep off these things, but you seem like a guy in need. I have a
3300 in my XL-B. While early into phase 1 the engine would get rough, loose power
and scare hell out of me. And I tore my hair out for hours. Then I learned that the
Bing Carb is a delicate and sensitive gadget. First, I replaced the SCAT tubing with
a 90 degree Gates rubber radiator hose from O'Rieliey's Auto parts as the coupling
between the carb and the air filter box. What was occurring was that intake air from
the filter was entering the carb inlet unevenly, all on one side and not smoothly
and this messed with the delicate rubber venture inside the carb that controls
mixture. Then I made a divider wall of aluminum inside the hose that spands from
just prior to the inlet all the way around the turn of the hose bend(probably 6
inches). Is made out on .25 6061T6 and stays put because of the hose bend.This
# allowed the air stream to be even and smooth as it travels
to the carb and enters the rear of the Bing. First flight afterward was great.
Hundreds of flights since, full smooth and dependable power. Only other thing might
be plugs. Change them and run only the temp Jab says to run. Not hotter or colder.
Best of luck, Bill of Georgia
|
See induction system description above...
[quote] --
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
--
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jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:57 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
| Quote: |
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
|
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this flow divider mod...
[quote] --
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dons701
Joined: 22 May 2009
Posts: 80
Location: Hershey, PA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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J, Glad to hear you have seen some flight time and may be on your way out of your problem. But, as per Jabiru 3300 engine manual; "Leaded and Unleaded Automotive Gasoline above 95 Octane RON." It is very possible that running 93 octane may have contributed to your problem, showing up on #3 first. I don't remember if you had the same issues while running 100LL before.
How long have you been running the 93 octane fuel??
IHO, stay away from the 93 octane regardless of whether it was your problem or not...Don B
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_________________
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop |
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 7:22 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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|
Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go
out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such.
One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it.
If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is.
It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some
turbulence. Might be just what you need.
I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a
recommendation from South Africa
Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think.
I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a
recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff.
It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job.
Regards, Clive
--
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matronics(at)rtist.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:33 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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Don,
US 93 octane is about 98 octane RON. Read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating
Rob
On 6/18/2011 4:58 PM, dons701 wrote:
| Quote: |
J, Glad to hear you have seen some flight time and may be on your way out of your problem. But, as per Jabiru 3300 engine manual; "Leaded and Unleaded Automotive Gasoline above 95 Octane RON." It is very possible that running 93 octane may have contributed to your problem, showing up on #3 first. I don't remember if you had the same issues while running 100LL before.
How long have you been running the 93 octane fuel??
IHO, stay away from the 93 octane regardless of whether it was your problem or not...Don B
--------
Zenith 701 #76120
Jabiru 2200A #2456 95 hours
Sensenich Wood 64-PJ-36 Prop
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=343392#343392
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zeprep251(at)aol.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:41 am Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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J;s. problem only appeared this spring after not being run for the winter as I recall.It was fine when he shut it down last fall,and then the issue began on start up this spring,one of the reasons I suspected valve sticking or broken spring allowing compressed gases back into the intake manifold where they can cause problems on one cylinder only and also come and go at times.
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found that removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it with a simple 1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our 3300. But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change distribution unless it had become loose. Possible though.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:
[quote] --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)>
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
|
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this flow divider mod...
[quote] --
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Clive J
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 340
Location: UK
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult when you bear in mind the extensive testing and inspection that has eliminated everything it could be.
I'm currently running blind with my 3300 relying on good cooling and good plug color, the EGT' sensors aren't working. Not done that much flying as yet but using about 19 litres at 2700.
I think the change in the flow divider is a no brainer as is the 'cross' in the inlet for a Bing, next jobs on my list after I've found out why two cylinders have poor compression and what's going on with the oil pressure. I have a healthy gallery pressure now but I want to investigate the pulsing a little more as I never could explain the strange oil pressure readings I got in the early days.
Given the variability of the EGT temps and everyone having issues I need to get some monitoring added to my jobs to do list.
I've two steam gauges on but they have never worked.
Different subject
How early do folk recommend changing from straight oil nowadays? Or is that an old wives tail? Jab's in our hangar either used oil or didn't straight out the box, never changed so you could tell.
I'd like to try a multigrade.
Regards, Clive (UK)
Jab SP 2200, Esqual 3300
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: 18 June 2011 21:47
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found that removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it with a simple 1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our 3300. But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change distribution unless it had become loose. Possible though.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:
[quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)>
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
|
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this flow divider mod...
[quote]--
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jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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On 06/18/2011 04:47 PM, Martin Hone wrote:
| Quote: | J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found that
removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it with a simple
1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our 3300. But don't see how the
original set up would suddenly change distribution unless it had become loose. Possible
though.
|
Hi Martin...
>> But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change distribution unless it had
become loose.
My thinking exactly, but I'm extremely tempted to just try it... (or check for looseness)
Tomorrow, I will remove the cowl to check out my #3 plugs, after a 2 hour round trip
to the annual Aircraft Spruce fly-in in Brantford, ON earlier today. #3's EGT were right
in line
with #1 and #5, so I'm guessing that the plugs just might be OK, go figure. Will stick
with 100ll
regardless. ACS didn't have the NGK Iridium plugs in stock, otherwise I prolly would have
taken
a deep breath and handed over my MasterCard for the $120 purchase (!!!)
[quote]
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
<mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>> wrote:
<mailto:jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
<mailto:clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>>
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this flow
divider mod...
--
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jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:29 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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On 06/18/2011 10:58 AM, dons701 wrote:
| Quote: |
J, Glad to hear you have seen some flight time and may be on your way out of your problem. But, as per Jabiru 3300 engine manual; "Leaded and Unleaded Automotive Gasoline above 95 Octane RON." It is very possible that running 93 octane may have contributed to your problem, showing up on #3 first. I don't remember if you had the same issues while running 100LL before.
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No, at least not that I am aware of...
| Quote: | How long have you been running the 93 octane fuel??
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Just recently because I didn't have enough fuel to fly down to my local fuel bar. So I put
20 liters of Shell in. Not the first time
I've flown with mogas, but as a rule I use 100ll.
| Quote: | IHO, stay away from the 93 octane regardless of whether it was your problem or not...Don B
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You may be right, but there are dozens of 3300 flyers who would disagree to the point of
*recommending* it...
--
Regards, J.
- Sonex #325 C-FJNJ, Jab 3300a, Prince P-Tip, Aerocarb
- former C-IGGY CH701 owner/builder, CH750 in progress
- see both (and more!) at http://cleco.ca
-----------------------------
J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp sci)
email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca
*NIX consulting, SysAdmin
http://cleco.ca
I replaced the headlights in my car with strobe lights.
Now it looks like I'm the only one moving.
--- Steven Wright
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 6:35 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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Clive, it is generally considered that the running in process is sufficient when oil consumption stabilises and temps come down. Certainly somewhere between 25 and 50 hrs is plenty on straight 50 mineral oil, then change to Ashless Dispersant (Aeroshell 100 Plus) or multi-grade (Aeroshell 15-50 semi-synthetic for example)
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 9:20 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
[quote] It's the unexplained change that makes J's problem so difficult when you bear in mind the extensive testing and inspection that has eliminated everything it could be.
I'm currently running blind with my 3300 relying on good cooling and good plug color, the EGT' sensors aren't working. Not done that much flying as yet but using about 19 litres at 2700.
I think the change in the flow divider is a no brainer as is the 'cross' in the inlet for a Bing, next jobs on my list after I've found out why two cylinders have poor compression and what's going on with the oil pressure. I have a healthy gallery pressure now but I want to investigate the pulsing a little more as I never could explain the strange oil pressure readings I got in the early days.
Given the variability of the EGT temps and everyone having issues I need to get some monitoring added to my jobs to do list.
I've two steam gauges on but they have never worked.
Different subject
How early do folk recommend changing from straight oil nowadays? Or is that an old wives tail? Jab's in our hangar either used oil or didn't straight out the box, never changed so you could tell.
I'd like to try a multigrade.
Regards, Clive (UK)
Jab SP 2200, Esqual 3300
From: owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-jabiruengine-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Martin Hone
Sent: 18 June 2011 21:47
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
J. and Clive - I had mentioned this in one of my early responses. I found that removing the airfoil shaped flow divider in the plenum and replacing it with a simple 1/2 inch round section improved mixture distribution in our 3300. But don't see how the original set up would suddenly change distribution unless it had become loose. Possible though.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:55 AM, j. davis <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)> wrote:
[quote]--> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca (jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca)>
On 06/18/2011 10:34 AM, James, Clive R wrote:
| Quote: | --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R"<clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)>
J, I can't remember, have you changed the flow divider to a round tube?
|
Hi Clive... no, made no such change to date, no reason to do so (to date )
Not being overly quick to make engine mods, I'm not actually aware of this flow divider mod...
[quote]--
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 6:49 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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Clive,
I note that you intend to modify the flow divider, as well as 'some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff '
I have removed the airfoil-shaped flow divider and replaced it with the 1/2 inch round turbulator, as well as modded the Bing by drilling out the main airbleed and emulsion block and the idle circuit airbleed. The 3300 runs fine with the plugs showing even readings. However, with the onset of relatively cold weather here (5 Deg C to 18 C ) I have noticed that the engine is a bit harder to start and hesitates when pushing the throttle forward during take-off. I have richened the idle mixture screw which has helped, but at 3 turns out it shows that i need to go a a larger idle jet. ( Pilot Jet). Currently it is #35 and I found that #45 was too rich but that was in warmer weather. #35 is what I will be trying given these cooler conditions. The mods you are contemplating I believe are worthwhile, depending on what issues you are trying to address, of course.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:19 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)> wrote:
[quote] --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com (clive.james(at)uk.bp.com)>
Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go
out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such.
One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it.
If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is.
It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some
turbulence. Might be just what you need.
I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a
recommendation from South Africa
Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think.
I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a
recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff.
It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job.
Regards, Clive
--
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plus2s
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Posts: 65
Location: NEW ZEALAND
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 7:30 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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Have you drilled out the choke jet in the float bowl as per the last Jabba Chat - That's meant to help cold starting
Cheers
Keith
--- On Mon, 20/6/11, Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote]
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, 20, June, 2011, 2:44 PM
Clive,
I note that you intend to modify the flow divider, as well as 'some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff '
I have removed the airfoil-shaped flow divider and replaced it with the 1/2 inch round turbulator, as well as modded the Bing by drilling out the main airbleed and emulsion block and the idle circuit airbleed. The 3300 runs fine with the plugs showing even readings. However, with the onset of relatively cold weather here (5 Deg C to 18 C ) I have noticed that the engine is a bit harder to start and hesitates when pushing the throttle forward during take-off. I have richened the idle mixture screw which has helped, but at 3 turns out it shows that i need to go a a larger idle jet. ( Pilot Jet). Currently it is #35 and I found that #45 was too rich but that was in warmer weather. #35 is what I will be trying given these cooler conditions. The mods you are contemplating I believe are worthwhile, depending on what issues you are trying to address, of course.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:19 AM, James, Clive R <[url=/mc/compose?to=clive.james(at)uk.bp.com]clive.james(at)uk.bp.com[/url]> wrote:
[quote] --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R" <[url=/mc/compose?to=clive.james(at)uk.bp.com]clive.james(at)uk.bp.com[/url]>
Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go
out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such.
One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it.
If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is.
It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some
turbulence. Might be just what you need.
I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a
recommendation from South Africa
Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think.
I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a
recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff.
It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job.
Regards, Clive
--
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aerobiz1(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix |
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Thanks Keith. Yep. Done that.....
Cheers
martin
On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 1:26 PM, Keith Pickford <kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz (kpickford(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:
[quote]Have you drilled out the choke jet in the float bowl as per the last Jabba Chat - That's meant to help cold starting
Cheers
Keith
--- On Mon, 20/6/11, Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
[quote]
From: Martin Hone <aerobiz1(at)gmail.com (aerobiz1(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Re: Jab Runs Rough, how to Fix
To: jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com (jabiruengine-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Monday, 20, June, 2011, 2:44 PM
Clive,
I note that you intend to modify the flow divider, as well as 'some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff '
I have removed the airfoil-shaped flow divider and replaced it with the 1/2 inch round turbulator, as well as modded the Bing by drilling out the main airbleed and emulsion block and the idle circuit airbleed. The 3300 runs fine with the plugs showing even readings. However, with the onset of relatively cold weather here (5 Deg C to 18 C ) I have noticed that the engine is a bit harder to start and hesitates when pushing the throttle forward during take-off. I have richened the idle mixture screw which has helped, but at 3 turns out it shows that i need to go a a larger idle jet. ( Pilot Jet). Currently it is #35 and I found that #45 was too rich but that was in warmer weather. #35 is what I will be trying given these cooler conditions. The mods you are contemplating I believe are worthwhile, depending on what issues you are trying to address, of course.
Martin
On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 1:19 AM, James, Clive R <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com> wrote:
[quote] --> JabiruEngine-List message posted by: "James, Clive R" <clive.james(at)uk.bp.com>
Inside the manifold arrangement where the air goes in and the pipes go
out there's a flow divider. Jab made it aero shaped or some such.
One of the bolts that holds the manifold on to the sump goes through it.
If you look under the manifold you'll figure the one it is.
It's recommended to change it to a bit of 1/2 inch tube to cause some
turbulence. Might be just what you need.
I think there's a SB on the Jab Oz website, or maybe it's just a
recommendation from South Africa
Some pictures on the Yahoo Jab engines website I think.
I plan to do it but just haven't got round to it....part of a
recommended change with some work on the Bing drilling out some stuff.
It's not a technical mod, just a bolt on bolt off job.
Regards, Clive
--
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