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Diagnosing Electrical Problem

 
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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Dec 17, 2015 8:38 pm    Post subject: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

Quoted from Jan 2016 Kitplanes by David Boeshaar
Quote:
After hours of diagnosing an electrical problem and you ask for help, the solution will be blatantly obvious to everyone else, even people who know nothing about electrical problems.


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rampil



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

To quote Steve Jobs:
Yeah, so?


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user9253



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:08 am    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

Quote:
Yeah, so?

Well, it has been kind dead on this website for awhile. Thought I would start a new dialog. Many electrical troubleshooters have been stumped and frustrated by a problem that turned out to be something very simple. Maybe some forum members would like to share their experience.


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skywagon



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:21 am    Post subject: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

Joe,
Glad you opened up this "thread".
Odd mysteries of electrical problems come in all sizes and will never end.
Fast little electrons running thru all sorts of mazes are bound to find a
black hole or change at the oddest times. . .
One of my experiences that turned out to be dead simple kept me grounded for
2 days in a remote airport.

I landed my Cessna 185 in a farmers strip to visit one of my sons and family
that was only 5 min's away. The flight in was normal and this airplanes
electrical system was stable. Two days later, when I fired up to leave, I
had no alternator output. . or, so I thought. I was there with only simple
hand tools and no instruments to diagnose the problem. I could not find any
wiring breaks, i.e. the field wire breaking from vibration, etc. So, with
my pitiful few tools, I took the alternator and regulator off, called my son
and he drove me to finally find an auto shop to test same. Both units
tested fine. I reinstalled them and made sure the belt was not slipping and
then, counted all the skin that I had left doing this in and out thing.
I had some spare wire, so I began to do some connection jumping and found
the problem.
This Cessna had its original main 60 amp circuit breaker. These are the
non-pullable style, but, they do pop out when triggered. The breaker
outwardly appeared fine. But, when I shorted across it, the electrical
system came alive showing charging current. How odd that the CB opened up
but, did not trigger the pop-out indicator. Later, it was determined that
the CB had not opened due to excessive current, but, failed anyway. Reason
unknown. . .
In this case, I had no options for replacing it until back at my home
airport and I did not want to install the shorting wire. So, I removed the
battery stayed an extra night with my son while topping off the battery's
charge. Reinstalled the next day and flew the 3 hours home with the panel
turned off. Only turned things back on for radio announcements for landing
and taxi.
If I carried my normal "kit", VOM and tools, this would have gone a lot
quicker to diagnose. . . .

---


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 12:38 pm    Post subject: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

I know it's 'after the fact', but the auto parts store probably would
have had a 12V test light & some hookup wire for cheap, or at least the
wire & a 12 V bulb. Would have made the chore of finding the problem a
bit quicker. (You'd have seen the 14V on the source side of the alt
breaker, & known that the alt was working.)

Charlie
(shade tree troubleshooting & repair for over 50 years....)

On 12/18/2015 12:08 PM, David Lloyd wrote:
[quote]
<skywagon(at)charter.net>

Joe,
Glad you opened up this "thread".
Odd mysteries of electrical problems come in all sizes and will never
end. Fast little electrons running thru all sorts of mazes are bound
to find a black hole or change at the oddest times. . .
One of my experiences that turned out to be dead simple kept me
grounded for 2 days in a remote airport.

I landed my Cessna 185 in a farmers strip to visit one of my sons and
family that was only 5 min's away. The flight in was normal and this
airplanes electrical system was stable. Two days later, when I fired
up to leave, I had no alternator output. . or, so I thought. I was
there with only simple hand tools and no instruments to diagnose the
problem. I could not find any wiring breaks, i.e. the field wire
breaking from vibration, etc. So, with my pitiful few tools, I took
the alternator and regulator off, called my son and he drove me to
finally find an auto shop to test same. Both units tested fine. I
reinstalled them and made sure the belt was not slipping and then,
counted all the skin that I had left doing this in and out thing.
I had some spare wire, so I began to do some connection jumping and
found the problem.
This Cessna had its original main 60 amp circuit breaker. These are
the non-pullable style, but, they do pop out when triggered. The
breaker outwardly appeared fine. But, when I shorted across it, the
electrical system came alive showing charging current. How odd that
the CB opened up but, did not trigger the pop-out indicator. Later, it
was determined that the CB had not opened due to excessive current,
but, failed anyway. Reason unknown. . .
In this case, I had no options for replacing it until back at my home
airport and I did not want to install the shorting wire. So, I
removed the battery stayed an extra night with my son while topping
off the battery's charge. Reinstalled the next day and flew the 3
hours home with the panel turned off. Only turned things back on for
radio announcements for landing and taxi.
If I carried my normal "kit", VOM and tools, this would have gone a
lot quicker to diagnose. . . .

---


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

Skywagon, thanks for sharing. We can learn from the experiences of others.

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Eric M. Jones



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 565
Location: Massachusetts

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

EDN of 23NOV1995 had an article entitled: "Assume nothing. Test everything." which was a small guide to troubleshooting philosophy (although aimed more at computers and high falutin designs but applicable to life in general).

He (Jack Ganssle) taught some critical elements of troubleshooting that have helped me over the years. Allow me to share some of them them with you:

1) EVERYTHING YOU KNOW IS WRONG. I.e. Assume nothing. Is it really connected like you think? Are your measuring instrument working? Etc. To facilitate this process-->

2) Keep a notebook of what you are doing, what you suspect, random suspicions, sketches, details, notes for later improvements, hard-to-read numbers, EVERYTHING. When you review your notebook the next day, important clues will often jump out.

3) Start with an organized workbench with all tools at the ready. What are you going to need to test assumptions?

4) Ask for help. Don't be shy! Anybody can help by listening to your explanation...where the obvious might jump out.... Asking experts is how you'll learn, even if they don't have the answer.

5) Use the Internet. Hardly a day goes by without someone asking me a question and I reply (or would like to reply) "Let me Google that for you".
Google has developed the ability to understand plain language questions. The value of searching the 'net cannot be overstated. And it will only get better.

6) Remember, most problems have simple answers. Think "Connectors" not Integrated Circuits. Think "Horses" not Zebras.

We can all add tips to this list.


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skywagon



Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 184

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:01 pm    Post subject: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

Charlie,
Good points, . . .and, my "tool" kit had those items. Except they were left
out of the plane during the annual and I had forgotten to strap the tool kit
back in place. I used to carry a mag and mag parts too. Never used them,
but, did help out a friend in an isolated strip. Don't carry those either.
. . ;>)

---


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1907
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Diagnosing Electrical Problem Reply with quote

Quote:
2) Keep a notebook of what you are doing, what you suspect, random suspicions, sketches, details, notes for later improvements, hard-to-read numbers, EVERYTHING. When you review your notebook the next day, important clues will often jump out.

I should have followed that advice while doing industrial electrical troubleshooting (before retiring). I would take measurements without writing anything down, thinking that I would remember. But then later I could not remember what the conditions were while testing. Was that switch or that indicator light or that relay turned on or off? Then I would have to repeat the measurements. But if it was an intermittent problem, no measurements could be taken while the equipment was working properly. More time was wasted repeating tests then if I had taken the time to write notes.


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