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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1944
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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 Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:36 am Post subject: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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You are right Paul. If each generator has its own rectifier, there is no concern about phase. But the picture that you posted appears to show an alternating current (AC) wire connected to the battery. Without more information, I would NOT go by that picture. Nor would I connect an AC wire from each alternator winding to the battery.
Can you provide a link to the schematic for the Lockwood AirCam? Wiring your alternator according to that schematic might be the way to go. A schematic is better than a confusing picture.
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N509RV(at)eckenroth.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:50 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally. I would think the connector is hiding cross circuitry. But then this is the first rectifier/regulator representation I've seen that relies on two wire connection. As I read more about PM alternators and the required rectifier/regulator when used in aircraft it seems the weak link is the regulator. So what happens when the regulator goes bad. Do you get a high voltage spike into the battery and avionics. If you add a crowbar to counter this. Do you cut the feed after the regulator or possibly the AC feed before the regulator.The AirCam schematic is not on line. But it seems very basic to me utilizing a rectifier/regulator plus capacitor for each engine and both into a single battery with a single master switch and solenoid.
Paul
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:36 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>
You are right Paul. If each generator has its own rectifier, there is no concern about phase. But the picture that you posted appears to show an alternating current (AC) wire connected to the battery. Without more information, I would NOT go by that picture. Nor would I connect an AC wire from each alternator winding to the battery.
 Can you provide a link to the schematic for the Lockwood AirCam? Wiring your alternator according to that schematic might be the way to go. A schematic is better than a confusing picture.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452035#452035
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:27 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Exactly. The only issue is if the total load significantly exceeds the rating of one side, in which case you need to know whether they can 'share' the load, as Bob mentioned.
On 1/16/2016 12:52 PM, Paul Eckenroth wrote:
| Quote: | I don't understand the comment about the two generators being in or out of phase. If they are both run through a rectifier.regulator wouldn't that eliminate the phase concern. I looked at a schematic for a Lockwood AirCam. This has two Rotax engines each with magneto, rectifier/regulator, and capacitor all tied into one battery.
Paul
On Fri, Jan 15, 2016 at 8:22 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <[url=mailto:fransew(at)gmail.com]fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)[/url]>
> What is the downside of both alternators connected to the battery at the same time.
If the outputs from both alternators are exactly in phase with each other, then I suppose that they could be connected in parallel to a rectifier/regulator. The alternators may very well be in phase (if the wires are not connected backwards) because they are excited by the same rotating magnets. I do not understand how the alternators are connected to the rectifier/regulator in the picture that you posted. AC voltage can not be connected directly to a battery. The AC needs to be rectified and regulated first. The alternator coils can be damaged if not wired correctly. The trial and error method should not be used.
> What is the purpose of the capacitor.
The output voltage from a rectifier/regulator is pulsing DC. A capacitor tries to smooth out the pulses. A flywheel on an engine is analogous to a capacitor in a circuit. They each smooth out pulses.
> If the crowbar disconnects a generator from the battery what happens. Is there any harm to the generator.
I do not think so, but will leave that for others to answer.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:27 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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I agree; the drawing looks like a simple half-wave rectifier combined with the regulator. Not the most efficient concept, but tying one end of the coil to ground would be normal in that case.
OV protection on PM alternators is usually with a relay in series with the output that *opens* to protect the avionics; a true 'crowbar' across the output would take a really big shorting device and tripping a really big circuit breaker. (There's no 'field' winding available to open.)
On 1/16/2016 2:46 PM, Paul Eckenroth wrote:
| Quote: | Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally. I would think the connector is hiding cross circuitry. But then this is the first rectifier/regulator representation I've seen that relies on two wire connection. As I read more about PM alternators and the required rectifier/regulator when used in aircraft it seems the weak link is the regulator. So what happens when the regulator goes bad. Do you get a high voltage spike into the battery and avionics. If you add a crowbar to counter this. Do you cut the feed after the regulator or possibly the AC feed before the regulator. The AirCam schematic is not on line. But it seems very basic to me utilizing a rectifier/regulator plus capacitor for each engine and both into a single battery with a single master switch and solenoid.
Paul
On Sat, Jan 16, 2016 at 2:36 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <[url=mailto:fransew(at)gmail.com]fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)[/url]>
You are right Paul. If each generator has its own rectifier, there is no concern about phase. But the picture that you posted appears to show an alternating current (AC) wire connected to the battery. Without more information, I would NOT go by that picture. Nor would I connect an AC wire from each alternator winding to the battery.
 Can you provide a link to the schematic for the Lockwood AirCam? Wiring your alternator according to that schematic might be the way to go. A schematic is better than a confusing picture.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=452035#452035
===========
br> fts!)
r> > w.buildersbooks.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.buildersbooks.com
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1944
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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| Quote: | | Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally. |
You may be right.
And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. The alternator is
unlikely to fail because it has no moving parts except for the
permanent magnets that are attached to the flywheel. The
magnets will not stop spinning unless the engine stops first,
then you have bigger problems. Usually when the regulator
fails, the voltage drops. But it would be prudent to be
prepared for other failure modes like shorts to ground or
over-voltage. That is why my schematic in a previous post has
the relays interrupting power to the regulator DC output, to isolate
a regulator that is shorted to ground from the other regulator.
If the Revmaster had only one alternator, then switching the AC
would be a more elegant way to cut charging power.
Unless your Onex will be flown IFR, using only one alternator at
a time should supply enough power.
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:31 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net wrote:[quote] [quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: ashleysc(at)broadstripe.netHi All;Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.That's why I'm interested.Cheers! Stu.---
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1944
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:34 pm Post subject: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Hi Stu! What kind of engine and alternators do you have.
It will be interesting to see the schematic that you develop.
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet. Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net wrote: [quote]
| Quote: | | Hi All;Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.That's why I'm interested.Cheers! Stu. |
[quote]---
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Hi Joe;
I don't have a schematic yet. I was hoping to encounter one during the ongoing discussion. The manufacturer is "LActrical."
If you get on EBAY and input "Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu", one of these should be the first item listed. Once you know what you are looking for, you can get the price down to about $75 on EBAY or Amazon. Full disclosure: Although the quality looks good, I have not run mine yet.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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At 04:54 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>
> Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally.
You may be right.
And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.
Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. |
That situation along with R/R assemblies
for B&C products is being evaluated. We'll
have more robust recommendations for virtually
all OBAM aircraft PM alternator installations.
Bob . . .
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)> wrote:
[quote]Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet. Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck):Â Â Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net) wrote: [quote]
| Quote: | | Hi All;Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.That's why I'm interested.Cheers! Stu. |
[quote]---
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 429
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Did that overhauled over voltage protection module ever come to fruition?
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 8:11 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 04:54 PM 1/16/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>
> Joe. I think you may be taking the picture too literally.
You may be right.
And you are right about the regulator being the weak link.Â
Many of them made for the Rotax have failed. |
 That situation along with R/R assemblies
 for B&C products is being evaluated. We'll
 have more robust recommendations for virtually
 all OBAM aircraft PM alternator installations.
 Bob . . .
|
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 10:09 am Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Hi Charlie;
Well, the regulator is bonded (plastic cast in place?) to the back side, not bolted. It doesn't look like it can be easily separated, should you want to replace it, or mount it remotely.
Cheers! Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)> wrote:
[quote] Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet. Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)wrote: [quote]
| Quote: | Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
|
[quote]---
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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The listing I found
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-ISUZU-KOKUSAN-DENKI-SMALL-ENG-12VOLT-20AMP-/301651032847?hash=item463bcd7b0f:g:bCUAAOSwstxVbPpU&vxp=mtr
shows what looks like a truncated metal disc with the potting material in it, and 2 bolt heads showing in back. I assumed that the entire metal disc including the potted section would unbolt from the dynamo. The bare, unregulated dynamos look more or less like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-PERKINS-YANMAR-SMALL-ENGINES-12-VOLT-20-AMP-/271888026588?hash=item3f4dca0bdc:g:55IAAOSwBahVbPnp&vxp=mtr
I googled 'ISUZU KOKUSAN DENKI wiring diagram' & found
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Permanent-Magnet-Alternator-Kokusan-Denki_252852606.html
which basically shows a B lead & ground. Since there's no field winding, you can't depend on the switched ignition line to shut down the alternator, so IMO, you'd still need a series contactor to disconnect the B lead in an OV condition.
If the diagram is accurate for your device (and likely is), then you *should* be able to treat it like a black box with a case ground and a B lead (with the L terminal tied through an indicator lamp & switch to the B lead).
Charlie
On 1/17/2016 12:05 PM, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net) wrote:
[quote] Hi Charlie;
Well, the regulator is bonded (plastic cast in place?) to the back side, not bolted. It doesn't look like it can be easily separated, should you want to replace it, or mount it remotely.
Cheers!  Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)> wrote:
[quote] Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet. Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck):Â Â Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <[url=mailto:ceengland7(at)gmail.com]ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)[/url]>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)wrote: [quote]
| Quote: | Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
|
[quote]---
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:23 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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|
Hi Charlie;
1. Well you found the right listing. I've looked at a few more alternators that are apparently the same animal, minus regulator, and it appears you are right. So you could have your choice: internally regulated or remotely regulated. I don't know why all the unregulated units are more than $100! Plus you have to buy the regulator!
2. Concerning your second reference, please note it is not exactly as above. The mounting ears are not directly opposite each other. This may or may not be a disadvantage, depending on how you intend to mount it. I wanted a symmetrical configuration, so I had the option of mounting facing forward or aft. (These alternators don't care which way they are rotated.) As it turns out both my pulleys will be facing forward.
3. Thanks for the reference to the wiring diagram. I will look further into it for paralleling. two units.
Cheers! Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 11:59:38 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
The listing I found
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-ISUZU-KOKUSAN-DENKI-SMALL-ENG-12VOLT-20AMP-/301651032847?hash=item463bcd7b0f:g:bCUAAOSwstxVbPpU&vxp=mtr
shows what looks like a truncated metal disc with the potting material in it, and 2 bolt heads showing in back. I assumed that the entire metal disc including the potted section would unbolt from the dynamo. The bare, unregulated dynamos look more or less like
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PERMANENT-MAGNET-PM-ALTERNATOR-Fits-PERKINS-YANMAR-SMALL-ENGINES-12-VOLT-20-AMP-/271888026588?hash=item3f4dca0bdc:g:55IAAOSwBahVbPnp&vxp=mtr
I googled 'ISUZU KOKUSAN DENKI wiring diagram' & found
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Permanent-Magnet-Alternator-Kokusan-Denki_252852606.html
which basically shows a B lead & ground. Since there's no field winding, you can't depend on the switched ignition line to shut down the alternator, so IMO, you'd still need a series contactor to disconnect the B lead in an OV condition.
If the diagram is accurate for your device (and likely is), then you *should* be able to treat it like a black box with a case ground and a B lead (with the L terminal tied through an indicator lamp & switch to the B lead).
Charlie
On 1/17/2016 12:05 PM, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net) wrote:
[quote] Hi Charlie;
Well, the regulator is bonded (plastic cast in place?) to the back side, not bolted. It doesn't look like it can be easily separated, should you want to replace it, or mount it remotely.
Cheers! Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Sunday, January 17, 2016 9:36:43 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)> wrote:
[quote] Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet. Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net (ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net)wrote: [quote]
| Quote: | Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
|
[quote]---
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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At 11:35 AM 1/17/2016, you wrote:
| Quote: | | Did that overhauled over voltage protection module ever come to fruition? |
Yes . . . its in the que for loading to the
B&C production line.
Bob . . .
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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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|
J.Deere part numbers are AM877557 for the alternator, and AM101406 for
the regulator.
Unverified info is that the same regulator is also used on a 35 amp
alternator.
I use a little automotive 40 amp rated cube relay on an AC lead with an
crowbar module for overvoltage control and have a C/B on the B lead that
could theoretically also be pulled to isolate the regulator from the
battery if need be. I also fitted a larger multi-V pulley and around 500
hours I replaced the pulley side ball bearing.
Check out Mark Langford's KR2S website for more info.
http://www.n56ml.com/
Ken
On 17/01/2016 12:36 PM, Charlie England wrote:
[quote] Thanks for the link. From memory, the pic looks like they've just
bolted a rectifier/regulator to the back of a typical John Deer/Kubota
style PM alternator. I wonder if the regulator is available
separately. Also wonder if it's a shunt style or switcher.
Charlie
On Sun, Jan 17, 2016 at 10:17 AM, <ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
<mailto:ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net>> wrote:
Hi Charlie;
For a start get on EBAY and input:
"Permanent Magnet PM Alternator Fits Isuzu"
It should come up as the first item listed.
The manufacturer is named "LActrical".
These units are most likely built in China, so you have to
accommodate your fears, expectations, prejudices, if any, to that.
(My personal belief is that there is a range of quality being
manufactured in China ranging from terrible to excellent.)
These units appear to be well made, but I have not run them yet.
Once you know what you are looking for, you can probably get the
cost down to about $75. Note that the internally regulated ones
have a black plastic infill on the back side. If it looks hollow
back there, it is the externally regulated version. Knowing this
allows a quick visual sorting as you scroll down the various EBAY
and Amazon offerings.
Cheers! (and good luck): Stu.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From: *"Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com
<mailto:ceengland7(at)gmail.com>>
*To: *aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
<mailto:aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>
*Sent: *Saturday, January 16, 2016 9:26:25 PM
*Subject: *Re: Re: Schematic for twin PM
alternators
On January 16, 2016 10:05:28 PM CST, ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net
<mailto:ashleysc(at)broadstripe.net> wrote:
Hi All;
Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of sarcastic humor, to note:
So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented.
I have two identical 12 V, 20 amp permanent magnet, internally regulated alternators for which I have not yet developed a schematic.
That's why I'm interested.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1944
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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|
B & C permanent magnet alternator schematic:
http://www.bandc.aero/pdfs/420-506_revb.pdf
| Quote: | Please allow a 75 year old from New England, the home of
sarcastic humor, to note: So many e-mails entitled; "Schematic
for Twin PM Alternators." So few schematics actually presented. |
OK, I have attached another version.
Design considerations:
Rectifiers/Regulators get hot. Connecting two alternators to
one rectifier/regulator could overheat it (when under heavy load).
If the output of two separate rectifier/regulators are
connected together, will the load be shared equally or will one
be overworked and self destruct?
If there is an over-voltage condition, how will the faulty
regulator be identified and shut off quickly (in less than one second)?
If one charging system fails, will the other one then be
overloaded and fail also?
Hundreds of Rotax powered aircraft are flying with modern glass
panels and LED lighting powered by one 20 amp permanent-magnet
dynamo (usually loaded to no more than 80 percent). The
Revmaster should be able to do the same using one alternator at
a time. An outbound leg can use the left alternator and the
inbound leg can use the right alternator. The pilot will know
that both systems work and there will always be a backup.
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| Description: |
|
Download |
| Filename: |
Revmaster3.pdf |
| Filesize: |
66.53 KB |
| Downloaded: |
734 Time(s) |
_________________
Joe Gores |
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ashleysc(at)broadstripe.n
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:06 pm Post subject: Schematic for twin PM alternators |
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Hi Joe;
Being internally regulated, each alternator has it's own regulator. I think I will probably wire so that only one is in use at a time.
Cheers! Stu.
---
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