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LAA Night / IFR Trials

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steven.pitt2(at)ntlworld.
Guest

Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: LAA Night / IFR Trials

Spoke to Brian Davies this evening and progress is still being made albeit slowly. The early flights with the first trials aircraft were to establish protocols and the latest flights with a second batch of aircraft will be to show the protocols work.

Keep watching.

Steve 



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 9 Oct 2015, at 21:28, ploucandco <jacques(at)platisource.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Any updates on this one? Not really concerned as my Europa is under N registration but more interested to see IFR for Europas with an EU registraiton will be legal somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=447787#447787

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:57 am Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

So LAA/CAA UK have announced at the Flying Show Telford that permit aircraft can now be certified for IFR 

and Night flight instead of just VFR daylight.

Four permit aircraft have been assessed (not a Europa) but the Europa is on the likely to be possible list. Two leaflets have been issued 

TL 2.27 APPROVAL FOR OPERATION OF LAA PERMIT TO FLY AIRCRAFT IN IMC, UNDER IFR OR AT NIGHT

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.27%20Night%20IFR%20procedure.pdf



TL 2.28 ASSESSMENT OF LAA PERMIT TO FLY AIRCRAFT FOR OPERATION IN IMC, UNDER IFR OR AT NIGHT

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.28%20Night%20IFR%20assessment.pdf



Just been through TL2.28 and for my Europa and it looks like I'd need:

1. A new primary horizon with the Gemini PFD relegated to backup (or back to my venturi vac one in the shed), for some reason they say the Trutrak cant be trusted as primary (seems to work fine for me)

2. Heated Pitot and static plus on/off switch/wiring etc

3. Autopilot trim isolation switch

4. Maybe a bigger battery



I might fall down on instrument layout and there are a lot of hoops to fly through.

Is anyone else interested in pursuing it? I have kept my IMC valid for years.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

rogersheridan(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:22 am Post subject: LAA Night / IFR Trials

Hi Graeme,

Good luck with the IFR approval, I’d love to follow in your footsteps!



Driving a conventional heated pitot could be problematic but this article looks promising:



http://www.periheliondesign.com/downloads/thermopitot.pdf



Please keep us posted of any progress.



Cheers,



Roger

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 3 Dec 2016, at 17:57, graeme bird <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk (graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk)> wrote:

--> Europa-List message posted by: "graeme bird" <graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk (graeme(at)gdbmk.co.uk)>So LAA/CAA UK have announced at the Flying Show Telford that permit aircraft can now be certified for IFR and Night flight instead of just VFR daylight.Four permit aircraft have been assessed (not a Europa) but the Europa is on the likely to be possible list. Two leaflets have been issued TL 2.27 APPROVAL FOR OPERATION OF LAA PERMIT TO FLY AIRCRAFT IN IMC, UNDER IFR OR AT NIGHThttp://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.27%20Night%20IFR%20procedure.pdfTL 2.28 ASSESSMENT OF LAA PERMIT TO FLY AIRCRAFT FOR OPERATION IN IMC, UNDER IFR OR AT NIGHThttp://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TechnicalLeaflets/Operating%20An%20Aircraft/TL%202.28%20Night%20IFR%20assessment.pdfJust been through TL2.28 and for my Europa and it looks like I'd need:1. A new primary horizon with the Gemini PFD relegated to backup (or back to my venturi vac one in the shed), for some reason they say the Trutrak cant be trusted as primary (seems to work fine for me)2. Heated Pitot and static plus on/off switch/wiring etc3. Autopilot trim isolation switch4. Maybe a bigger batteryI might fall down on instrument layout and there are a lot of hoops to fly through.Is anyone else interested in pursuing it? I have kept my IMC valid for years.--------Graeme BirdG-UMPY -  Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis ap, pflarm, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP 5, Aera500 &amp; SD on Nexus,250 hours &amp; 4 years on the Mono, 880 totalg(at)gdbmk.co.ukRead this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=463654#463654

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

This is the initial assessment on my Europa for TL2.28; maybe someone else could make use of it and adapt it:

It would be great to know someone who has been involved to date and could give me an early steer. Looks like a MOD application to install a heated pitot is the first thing required; then moving instruments around, then ASI tests and writing a POH lite

Gemini API question.docx

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document that looks at compliance against the rules TL2.28 for G-UMPY; including failure analysis, power budget and deliverables

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Gemini API question.docx

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carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

Hi Graeme, Steven,



I'm in the process of getting my Europa Tri-Gear ready for IMC/Night approval. I've done a lot of work replacing all my avionics with a SkyView D1000T panel, 8.33 radio, transponder, 2 channel auto pilot, landing light, position lights, cabin lights and a backup artificial horizon (I went for a GRT Mini-X because it has a terrain and obstacle database. Essential as a backup instrument for IMC/Night if you ask me). I've also plumbed my Pilot Aware unit into the SkyView system so I get traffic too. It works a treat. I just need to replace my Pitot probe with a heated version now and I was looking at the Dynon. I need to find out what the current draw is to see if I'm going to need to fit an additional alternator. 



I'm talking with Peter Pengelli, one of the guys that's been involved in getting the LAA IMC/Night approval through. I'm waiting on a test pilot to fly it and see if he gives the thumbs-up so I can go on to the next step. Then it's down to an assessment of the kit I have fitted and whether I need to make changes (God, I hope not), additions, etc.



Hopefully you can see a picture attached of the new panels fitted. If not, email me directly and I'll send you some pictures.



All the best.

Carl

cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com

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Last edited by carlp101 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:04 am; edited 1 time in total

graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

wow, that looks and sounds great. I put my info into the LAA but then was asked to submit a MOD15 form. I have my annual at the moment so am rearranging my instruments to comply plus adding wires for lights and pitot heat. I have a pitot heat design in progress based on the europa standard one and recon on needing about 1-2 max keeping thermal insulation up and thermal mass down.

It sounds like you are already well on the way and will be the first of class/type and it may be sensible that that is a tri-gear.

Rick Moss is also pursuing it his Europa with a conventional six pack fit out. Mine is a mix of steam, dedicated gauges and portable and installed electronics not nearly as clean as your panel.

Somehow I need to link up to the assessment team. Where are you based?

Burrilla

Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 182

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: LAA Night / IFR Trials

Carl,



The link just goes to an error 404 and not found. I would love to see them please as I am currently designing a panel. I'm favouring conventional instruments with some electronics I.e. HSI.



Perhaps the Europa Club would consider hosting the pictures with a write up on progress on making this happen do you happen to be a member?



Kind regards



Alan Burrill

GOBJT



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 22 Jan 2017, at 19:26, carlp101 <cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hi Graeme, Steven,

 

 I'm in the process of getting my Europa Tri-Gear ready for IMC/Night approval. I've done a lot of work replacing all my avionics with a SkyView D1000T panel, 8.33 radio, transponder, 2 channel auto pilot, landing light, position lights, cabin lights and a backup artificial horizon (I went for a GRT Mini-X because it has a terrain and obstacle database. Essential as a backup instrument for IMC/Night if you ask me). I've also plumbed my Pilot Aware unit into the SkyView system so I get traffic too. It works a treat. I just need to replace my Pitot probe with a heated version now and I was looking at the Dynon. I need to find out what the current draw is to see if I'm going to need to fit an additional alternator. 

 

 I'm talking with Peter Pengelli, one of the guys that's been involved in getting the LAA IMC/Night approval through. I'm waiting on a test pilot to fly it and see if he gives the thumbs-up so I can go on to the next step. Then it's down to an assessment of the kits I have fitted and whether I need to make changes (God, I hope not), additions, etc.

 

 Hopefully you can see a picture attached of the new panels fitted. If not, email me directly and I'll send you some pictures.

 

 All the best.

 Carl

 cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=465337#465337

 

 

 

 

 Attachments: 

 

 http://forums.matronics.com//files/new_panels_fitted_190.jpg

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

Alan,



I deleted the original picture because it was physically too large. You may have clicked on the link when I was in the process of changing it over. It seems to be displaying OK now.



Graeme, I'm based at Membury.

Last edited by carlp101 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:59 am; edited 1 time in total

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:54 am Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

Hi Carl,



congratulations for that very tidy cockpit layout - impressive! And of course best of luck for the approval.



BTW, you don't get a limitation to VFR/day in Germany, if you apply for an entry permission (which you actually don't need as an ECAC-reg., but most in the Luftfahrtbundesamt do not know and the general entry permission for ECAC-reg. is only granted "VFR/day only"). Don't ask me for the sense of that rule.....   



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:01 am Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

 	  Roland wrote: 	
		  Hi Carl,



congratulations for that very tidy cockpit layout - impressive! And of course best of luck for the approval.



BTW, you don't get a limitation to VFR/day in Germany, if you apply for an entry permission (which you actually don't need as an ECAC-reg., but most in the Luftfahrtbundesamt do not know and the general entry permission for ECAC-reg. is only granted "VFR/day only"). Don't ask me for the sense of that rule.....   



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914 	




Thanks, Roland. It took a lot of time and effort.

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:06 am Post subject: Re: LAA Night / IFR Trials

I've just finished adding dim-able LED cockpit lighting for those night flights to come.

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