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pete(at)lawless.info
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 Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Graeme
Suspect first sign would be a fuel smell and damp filler pipe.
Standard mod shortly available as SM 13070. Paper work is with Andy
Draper at the moment but I believe just about complete.
John Archer is getting a batch of pipes made down in France. Suggest you
contact John direct 77alembert(at)gmail.com.
Regards
Pete
On 11/12/17 21:30, graeme bird wrote:
| Quote: |
Checked my 6 year old, rubber conventional filler tube (old style long one from the centre of the fuselage. Looked good as new to me and very flexible, no signs of cracking around the face or inside. Surely first signs would be black bits in the fuel filter.
Was there any progress on the metal filler, did anyone get a batch made? Was it with Nev?
--------
Graeme Bird
G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS FFW 912S, Woodcomp 3000/3W CS, trutrak Gemini 2 axis AP, PAW, PFLARM core, ads-b out, 8.33khz, mode S, FP-5, Aera500, SD on Nexus, SmartA3
325 hours & 6 years on the Mono, 930 total
g(at)gdbmk.co.uk
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476346#476346
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pete(at)lawless.info
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:20 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Ivor
Been looking for hose for a standard mod to replace the classic pipe
with aluminium. The only hose we have found so far that is guaranteed
100% for petrol is Samco ProFuel. Unfortunately it is on a 42 day lead time.
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-silicone-coupling-hose-psch
Pete
G-RMAC Europa 109 Classic
On 15/12/17 17:53, Ivor wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi Duncan
as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when hopefully
a more permanent solution is found,
IMO if a hose designed for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then it’s not fit
for purpose,
my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an original hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476410#476410
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andy_ringrose(at)onetel.c
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:10 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Carbuildersolutions.com have a silicon fuel filler hose 51mm I.D part no. SKU:SILFF51BK
Time will tell if it's an improvement on the standard hose. I also have an aluminium pipe in place of the factory version due to early concerns re fuel immersion particularly on the Mono. The lower joining section had identical deterioration to that which Ivor reported. Time in service 10 years mostly with Premium unleaded.
Andy
GMAUS Mono
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Is 51 mm inner diameter the correct size?
I'm about to replace the fuel hoses next month and I'm afraid that the fuel filler hose has deteriorated on the inside as well and I'd like to choose the best available.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:27 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Also www.demon-tweeks.co.uk
Choice of three suppliers 51mm fuel filler hose .
Note that silicone hose must be lined with fuel resistant material and that is only specified for short term contact with liquid fuel but long term contact with fuel vapours.
Regards
Brian
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brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:32 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
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pete(at)lawless.info
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 1:50 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Brian
I have been working with John Archer to get the standard mod for
converting the classic filler tube to aluminium approved. This is
currently with Andy Draper and just about ready to go. LAA will only
consider fully fuel proof hose, which is the Samco Pro Fuel. Everything
I have found other than this is only usable as a filler not for
permanent contact. The same problem will apply to the XS replacement.
Pete
On 16/12/17 09:27, Brian Davies wrote:
[quote]
Also www.demon-tweeks.co.uk
Choice of three suppliers 51mm fuel filler hose .
Note that silicone hose must be lined with fuel resistant material and that is only specified for short term contact with liquid fuel but long term contact with fuel vapours.
Regards
Brian
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brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:29 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Pete,
You have expressed the problem much more clearly than I did. You could use rubber instead of lined silicone hoses but it is hard (impossible?) to find out if the rubber is proof against modern Mogas without actually testing it. It is, however, nearly 1/4 inch thick so it should last for at least a year. 
Regards
Brian
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Burrilla
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 189
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:43 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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I’ve been looking at the Samco Pro for an XS, has the shorter 45 degree bend rubber pipe. Unfortunately my measurements indicate I need one with leg lengths of 100mm and 160mm which is not standard and would be a special order. I’ve been quoted Feb 18 delivery if I provide a drawing.
Anyone found a suitable replacement elsewhere?
Of course I could just use the one from Europa but I guess that routine checking and/or replacement is going to become a maintenance item so silicon would be a sensible lifetime solution.
Alan
G-OBJT
Sent from my iPad
[quote] On 16 Dec 2017, at 10:29, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Pete,
You have expressed the problem much more clearly than I did. You could use rubber instead of lined silicone hoses but it is hard (impossible?) to find out if the rubber is proof against modern Mogas without actually testing it. It is, however, nearly 1/4 inch thick so it should last for at least a year.
Regards
Brian
--
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pete(at)lawless.info
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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The LAA will want chapter and verse on its suitability for petrol + ethalene fuel.
Pete
On 16/12/17 15:35, David Watts wrote:
[quote] I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
[quote]
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote: [quote]
<image1.jpeg>
Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem
Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
[quote] Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Roger I think ProFuel is a Samco brand name.
Pete
On 16/12/17 18:26, Roger Sheridan wrote:
| Quote: | Chaps,
This link has some interesting information on variations in “fluorosilicone” hose.
http://www.silflex.com/products/fuel-oil-applications.html
I will be looking for the term “profuel”.
Regards,
Roger
| Quote: | On 16 Dec 2017, at 17:41, Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)> wrote:
The LAA will want chapter and verse on its suitability for petrol + ethalene fuel.
Pete On 16/12/17 15:35, David Watts wrote:
| Quote: | I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote: | Quote: | <image1.jpeg> Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Tim
I have just been involved in getting together an LAA Standard Mod for
the classic long fuel pipe to be made in aluminium. One of the LAA
requirements was documentary proof that the type of aluminium used was
suitable for use with petrol containing ethanol.
Regards
Pete
G-RMAC Europa #109 classic
On 17/12/17 19:02, Tim Ward wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi Europa owners,
It has become evident my aluminium elbow maybe in demand again.
I can ask the manufacturer of the aluminium elbow to make another run. This would require at least ten Europa owners to commit to buying. As I am now flying to Heathrow again I can bring them with me and post them in Londontown to save cost. American builders also, as I am in Los Angeles/San Francisco frequently.
Those builders interested in buying an elbow please email me. If there are enough I will get a price for you before committing.
I have had no problem with this fuel flow connection.
Merry Christmas.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mob +64 210640221
> On 18/12/2017, at 3:34 AM, Richard Wheelwright <rpwheelwright(at)yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> Just completed the check on G-IRPW. And all is well. Just for info I did fit Tim Wards elbow a few years ago.
>
> --------
> Richard Wheelwright
> G-IRPW
> First Flight 24th July 2013
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476460#476460
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/58e4a1ae_d8b9_43d9_a5c9_b35c398813c7_133.jpeg
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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:35 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Can't seem to find this mod listed in the LAA list of Europa standard mods.
Pete
On 19/12/17 11:09, clivesutton wrote:
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Richard Lamprey
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:11 pm Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Stupid question, but I will ask anyway... All the examples, photos, LAA report etc point to the side-filler Europa pipe, with 45 degree bend, which was an alternative to the top-of-fuselage original filler. I have the latter, the long pipe coming down through a hole in the rear bulkhead. Was this a different pipe batch? Inspection shows no problem with mine, I fill to the top before every flight, ie right up the pipe, then fly, then leave tank with about 3/4 full ie the pipe is not immersed for long. I fly once a month, Nice constant temps in Kenya 15-28 C for storage, all seems to be OK.
Best
Richard
Classic 5Y-LRY, Kenya
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clivesutton
Joined: 23 Jan 2013
Posts: 187
Location: KENILWORTH
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:30 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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| pete(at)lawless.info wrote: | Can't seem to find this mod listed in the LAA list of Europa standard mods.
Hi Pete, as the link (refreshed here again in case there is a problem with it), it is a factory MOD that has been in existence since mid-2015 and is listed under the usual Technical Updates/Modifications section on their website. It is also listed in the TADS under 'Standard Options'. BR Clive
http://www.europa-aircraft.com/upload/Modification%20Bulletin%20No%2079%20(Issue%2003).pdf
On 19/12/17 11:09, clivesutton wrote:
| Quote: |
As you say Bob, lots of activity behind the scenes.
MOD79 may also bring something to the party for some Europa-owners (LAA aware). The black silicone hoses in that MOD kit have a green fluoro fuel-resistant lining.
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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Richard
You have a Classic the pictures were for the XS with a side filler. The
AD applies to both.
I have just inspected mine and whilst the inside looked perfect the fuel
tank end was noticeably soft compared to the top section. I intend to
replace it with aluminium as per Standard Mod 13070. If you are
interested John Archer, who is getting the pipes made, is taking orders now.
Regards
Pete
G-RMAC Classic #109
On 21/12/17 07:11, Richard Lamprey wrote:
| Quote: |
Stupid question, but I will ask anyway... All the examples, photos, LAA report etc point to the side-filler Europa pipe, with 45 degree bend, which was an alternative to the top-of-fuselage original filler. I have the latter, the long pipe coming down through a hole in the rear bulkhead. Was this a different pipe batch? Inspection shows no problem with mine, I fill to the top before every flight, ie right up the pipe, then fly, then leave tank with about 3/4 full ie the pipe is not immersed for long. I fly once a month, Nice constant temps in Kenya 15-28 C for storage, all seems to be OK.
Best
Richard
Classic 5Y-LRY, Kenya
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476654#476654
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brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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As I explained in an earlier e-mail, there is no LAA Standard Mod to fit an aluminium elbow on an XS Europa. As nobody has applied for a standard Mod I have agreed with Andy Draper that I will do so. It will be based on Tim Ward's aluminium elbow and will use Samco Profuel joints. These can be purchased from www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk in a short length of 76mm for UK Pounds 11.24 plus VAT and postage. Currently there is a 39 day lead time on this item. Part number PSCH51-BLU
I will give you a progress report after Christmas.
Regards
Brian Davies
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Richard Lamprey
Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Thanks Pete, do you have John Archers contact email?
Best
Richard
| pete(at)lawless.info wrote: | Hi Richard
You have a Classic the pictures were for the XS with a side filler. The
AD applies to both.
I have just inspected mine and whilst the inside looked perfect the fuel
tank end was noticeably soft compared to the top section. I intend to
replace it with aluminium as per Standard Mod 13070. If you are
interested John Archer, who is getting the pipes made, is taking orders now.
Regards
Pete
G-RMAC Classic #109
On 21/12/17 07:11, Richard Lamprey wrote:
| Quote: |
Stupid question, but I will ask anyway... All the examples, photos, LAA report etc point to the side-filler Europa pipe, with 45 degree bend, which was an alternative to the top-of-fuselage original filler. I have the latter, the long pipe coming down through a hole in the rear bulkhead. Was this a different pipe batch? Inspection shows no problem with mine, I fill to the top before every flight, ie right up the pipe, then fly, then leave tank with about 3/4 full ie the pipe is not immersed for long. I fly once a month, Nice constant temps in Kenya 15-28 C for storage, all seems to be OK.
Best
Richard
Classic 5Y-LRY, Kenya
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476654#476654
|
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pete(at)lawless.info
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Richard
John is at 77alembert(at)gmail.com
Regards
Pete
On 22/12/17 19:51, Richard Lamprey wrote:
| Quote: |
Thanks Pete, do you have John Archers contact email?
Best
Richard
pete(at)lawless.info wrote:
> Hi Richard
>
> You have a Classic the pictures were for the XS with a side filler. The
> AD applies to both.
>
> I have just inspected mine and whilst the inside looked perfect the fuel
> tank end was noticeably soft compared to the top section. I intend to
> replace it with aluminium as per Standard Mod 13070. If you are
> interested John Archer, who is getting the pipes made, is taking orders now.
>
> Regards
>
> Pete
>
> G-RMAC Classic #109
> On 21/12/17 07:11, Richard Lamprey wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Stupid question, but I will ask anyway... All the examples, photos, LAA report etc point to the side-filler Europa pipe, with 45 degree bend, which was an alternative to the top-of-fuselage original filler. I have the latter, the long pipe coming down through a hole in the rear bulkhead. Was this a different pipe batch? Inspection shows no problem with mine, I fill to the top before every flight, ie right up the pipe, then fly, then leave tank with about 3/4 full ie the pipe is not immersed for long. I fly once a month, Nice constant temps in Kenya 15-28 C for storage, all seems to be OK.
>> Best
>> Richard
>> Classic 5Y-LRY, Kenya
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476654#476654
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=476691#476691
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:47 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Brian, I am going to order the Profuel joint from Merlin as you described, in anticipation of the standard mod. I bought one of Tim’s aluminium elbows some years ago but never got around to fitting it and it’s still in my garage!
Sorry for a silly question but do you think I need two of them (one for each end) or will one of them cut into two be sufficient?
Cheers!
| brian.davies44(at)gmail.c wrote: | As I explained in an earlier e-mail, there is no LAA Standard Mod to fit an aluminium elbow on an XS Europa. As nobody has applied for a standard Mod I have agreed with Andy Draper that I will do so. It will be based on Tim Ward's aluminium elbow and will use Samco Profuel joints. These can be purchased from www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk in a short length of 76mm for UK Pounds 11.24 plus VAT and postage. Currently there is a 39 day lead time on this item. Part number PSCH51-BLU
I will give you a progress report after Christmas.
Regards
Brian Davies
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