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Z-Zero, A Simple Basic Electrical System

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1919
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Mon May 20, 2024 2:47 pm Post subject: Z-Zero, A Simple Basic Electrical System

Bob N., how about publishing the simplest electrical system possible?

Over the years, builders have requested extra features like an E-Bus, dual 

alternators, dual batteries, brownout protection and etc.  And you have 

accommodated with architecture that meets those goals.

  But what about the little guy who wants something simple and safe without 

all of the bells and whistles?  He only wants to fly Day VFR.  He doesn't 

believe the old wives' tale about needing to shut off avionics during engine 

start.  His engine is not electrically dependent.  He doesn't need a battery 

bus or avionics bus.  A single battery provides a backup for the single 

alternator.  The main power bus is as reliable as prop bolts.  He won't need a 

battery bus because there is no clock or baggage compartment light.  His 

modern EFIS shows the exact time from GPS.  The EFIS also has a HOBBS 

meter.  His baggage compartment light was purchased at Walmart for $10.  

It turns on via sensing motion and its LEDs are powered by AAA batteries.  

He won't have to worry about leaving the light on and draining the aircraft battery. 

The EFIS has its own internal backup battery.  Over voltage and under voltage 

warning lights won't be needed because the EFIS has those features too.  

Fuses will be used to keep it simple and to save money.  He will use one 

circuit breaker for over voltage protection.

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_________________
Joe Gores

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 8:15 am Post subject: Z-Zero, A Simple Basic Electrical System

Joe,





I have pretty close to this ....based on the z16.   I have a rotax powered europa with dynon skyview (with backup battery) with a mechanical and electric fuel pump.   Everything is powered off a main bus with fuses.   My trim runs off the battery with a circuit breaker.

I have ovp through a bandc voltage regulator.  You reset this by shutting off the generator.

Its about as simple as it gets i think.

And i have a 30a fuze to protect the main bus at your recommendation.  

 im a very satisfied customer.

And i keep everything on when i start the engine.

I dont have a baggage bay light but my landing light came from amazon.

Will

On Mon, May 20, 2024, 19:07 user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Bob N., how about publishing the simplest electrical system possible?

 Over the years, builders have requested extra features like an E-Bus, dual 

 alternators, dual batteries. brownout protection and etc.  And you have 

 accommodated with architecture that meets those goals.

   But what about the little guy who wants something simple and safe without 

 all of the bells and whistles?  He only wants to fly Day VFR.  He doesn't 

 believe the old wives' tale about needing to shut off avionics during engine 

 start.  His engine is not electrically dependent.  He doesn't need a battery 

 bus or avionics bus.  A single battery provides a backup for the single 

 alternator.  The main power bus is as reliable as prop bolts.  He won't need a 

 battery bus because there is no clock or baggage compartment light.  His 

 modern EFIS shows the exact time from GPS.  The EFIS also has a HOBBS 

 meter.  His baggage compartment light was purchased at Walmart for $10.  

 It turns on via sensing motion and its LEDs are powered by AAA batteries.  

 The EFIS has its own internal backup battery.  Over voltage and under 

 voltage warning lights won't be needed because the EFIS has those features 

 too.  Fuses will be used to keep it simple and to save money.  He will use one 

 circuit breaker for over voltage protection.

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513594#513594

 

 

 

 

 

 

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William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246

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kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Tue May 21, 2024 10:33 am Post subject: Z-Zero, A Simple Basic Electrical System

Joe, 



I think that is a great idea. I would like to see that, followed by an evolution toward more complex electrical systems. Start with the most basic. Then add a component/feature and explain how it compares to the most basic -- advantages, disadvantages. And then further up the complexity tree, with each system being compared to the previous. An approach like that would be very helpful to those of us who don't have the broad general knowledge that so many on this list do have. 

Ken Ryan

On Tue, May 21, 2024 at 8:21 AM William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Joe,





I have pretty close to this ....based on the z16.   I have a rotax powered europa with dynon skyview (with backup battery) with a mechanical and electric fuel pump.   Everything is powered off a main bus with fuses.   My trim runs off the battery with a circuit breaker.

I have ovp through a bandc voltage regulator.  You reset this by shutting off the generator.

Its about as simple as it gets i think.

And i have a 30a fuze to protect the main bus at your recommendation.  

 im a very satisfied customer.

And i keep everything on when i start the engine.

I dont have a baggage bay light but my landing light came from amazon.

Will

On Mon, May 20, 2024, 19:07 user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Bob N., how about publishing the simplest electrical system possible?

 Over the years, builders have requested extra features like an E-Bus, dual 

 alternators, dual batteries. brownout protection and etc.  And you have 

 accommodated with architecture that meets those goals.

   But what about the little guy who wants something simple and safe without 

 all of the bells and whistles?  He only wants to fly Day VFR.  He doesn't 

 believe the old wives' tale about needing to shut off avionics during engine 

 start.  His engine is not electrically dependent.  He doesn't need a battery 

 bus or avionics bus.  A single battery provides a backup for the single 

 alternator.  The main power bus is as reliable as prop bolts.  He won't need a 

 battery bus because there is no clock or baggage compartment light.  His 

 modern EFIS shows the exact time from GPS.  The EFIS also has a HOBBS 

 meter.  His baggage compartment light was purchased at Walmart for $10.  

 It turns on via sensing motion and its LEDs are powered by AAA batteries.  

 The EFIS has its own internal backup battery.  Over voltage and under 

 voltage warning lights won't be needed because the EFIS has those features 

 too.  Fuses will be used to keep it simple and to save money.  He will use one 

 circuit breaker for over voltage protection.

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513594#513594

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

  -

 Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 ="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 	


William Daniell

+1 786 878 0246

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1919
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Wed May 22, 2024 10:24 am Post subject: Re: Z-Zero, A Simple Basic Electrical System

The part of Z-101B in black print comes pretty close to Z-Zero if the battery bus 

were eliminated.  But the electrically challenged novice builder would be 

overwhelmed by all of colored options.  It would be nice to have architecture 

devoted to the simplest possible electrical system while being safe, reliable, and 

easy to understand.

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_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri May 24, 2024 4:55 am Post subject: Z-Zero, A Simple Basic Electrical System

At 05:47 PM 5/20/2024, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 Bob N., how about publishing the simplest electrical system possible? 	


   Is that not what Z-01 does?



  	  Quote: 	
		  Over the years, builders have requested extra features like an E-Bus, dual 

 alternators, dual batteries. brownout protection and etc.  And you have 

 accommodated with architecture that meets those goals. 	


   Actually, builders 'requested' none of those features.

   They were included in various versions of the

   Z-figures as a result of conversations with builders

   on the 'net and at OSH.



   I'm not sure that I was clear on the design goals

   for Z-101. Inclusion of every architectural feature

   depicted, it's my suggestion that one would 

   address the all contingencies need for electrical

   energy in a single engine light aircraft.



   Now, depending on the goals and anticipated mission

   for the project, features can be DELETED as

   superfluous. Remove all ancillary features from

   Z-101 and you have Z-01.



   To be sure, an expansive NOTES section needs

   to accompany the Z-101 graphics . . .



   I have never published a 'filled out' architecture

   drawing because as you've noted in your missive,

   there are an infinite number of combinations for

   builder's choices. The goal of AEC architecture

   drawings is to craft a FAILURE TOLERANT architecture

   wherein no critical accessory is likely to go

   begging for 'juice'.



   I've produced custom wirebooks for clients over

   the years . . . those are consulting jobs

   billed at my exorbitant rates. But the Z-figures

   are intended to provide FOUNDATION for

   builder's to craft their own wirebook.  The

   granular details of that task are best managed

   here on the List in discussions and deliberations

   by the learned membership.



 

 

   Bob . . .



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    < Go ahead, make my day . . .   > 

    < show me where I'm wrong.      > 

    =================================

  

    In the interest of creative evolution

    for the-best-we-know-how-to-do based

    on physics and repeatable experiment.

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