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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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 Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:09 pm Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Hello,
I have a Series 5 Vixen with a Continental I0-240 (125HP, fuel injected) engine. Prop is a Warp Drive 70", 3 blade taper-tipped, nickle leading edge). Total time is 260 hours. This past weekend (during an out of state trip) I found a crack in one of the collars near the hub. After removal of the prop we found a second blade with a simular crack. Warp Drive will not cover becuase of the "high impulse" engine. This was the recommended prop...way back when... According to Warp I could purchase two new blades! This was really not what I wanted to hear. 
My Warp system is now useless. Please understand that I am not knocking Warp Drive. I have flown 1500+ hours behind (and in front of) their product. It's just the combination of a high (sharp) impulse engine and their non-flexing, lightweight prop set-up. At this point I can NOT recommend using Warp with this particular engine. ...I'm not sure about other Continental/Lycoming engines???
Today I ordered a 70" two blade Ivoprop Magnum propeller. It will have the in-flight adjustable option. I look forward to seeing how this works out. I would appreciate any input regarding this problem...and also my choice in replacement propeller. If anyone is interested I could take some pictures of the cracked collars. Let me know. Thanks!
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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smokey_bear_40220(at)yaho
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:43 pm Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Warp had a problem with cracked collars several years
ago and strengthened the hubs. I wonder if yours is
one of the old ones. I have a picture of one of the
cracked hubs on my home computer, but not there now.
I thought that Warp had offered replacements for the
lighter hubs back then, but maybe not.
Yours is not the first in any event, but if this is a
newer hub, it is the first of those I have heard
about. Good thing you caught it.
Several people are using wooden props with good
success, but I think your Ivo may do well. Please let
us know how you like it, if you go that way.
Also John McBean carries those props, so consider him
a source that supports KitFox´s too.
Kurt S.
--- FlyboyTR <flyboytr(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Hello,
I have a Series 5 Vixen with a Continental I0-240
(125HP, fuel injected) engine. Prop is a Warp Drive
70", 3 blade taper-tipped, nickle leading edge).
Total time is 260 hours. This past weekend (during
an out of state trip) I found a crack in one of the
collars near the hub..........
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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D
I've heard before that the warp props weren't recommended for what I call
"the Harley type" direct drive engines. Those long strokes, at low idle,
hammering on the prop are just too much for them and I was told there are
some instances of blade separation on record. Fortunately you were able to
spot the cracks before your day became a nightmare. Good job!
Perhaps its a blessing in disguise because once you get rolling with the Ivo
Mag inflight I don't think you'll ever look back. IMO inflight adjustable
is the only way to go. No compromises.
Good luck and let us know how it works out for you.
Deke
ps: Please give us at least a first name on your posts. Nothing to worry
about here. 
| Quote: |
Hello,
I have a Series 5 Vixen with a Continental I0-240 (125HP, fuel injected)
engine. Prop is a Warp Drive 70", 3 blade taper-tipped, nickle leading
|
edge). Total time is 260 hours. This past weekend (during an out of state
trip) I found a crack in one of the collars near the hub. After removal of
the prop we found a second blade with a simular crack. Warp Drive will not
cover becuase of the "high impulse" engine. This was the recommended
prop...way back when... According to Warp I could purchase two new blades!
This was really not what I wanted to hear. [Crying or Very sad]
| Quote: |
My Warp system is now useless. Please understand that I am not knocking
Warp Drive. I have flown 1500+ hours behind (and in front of) their
|
product. It's just the combination of a high (sharp) impulse engine and
their non-flexing, lightweight prop set-up. At this point I can NOT
recommend using Warp with this particular engine. ...I'm not sure about
other Continental/Lycoming engines???
| Quote: |
Today I ordered a 70" two blade Ivoprop Magnum propeller. It will have
the in-flight adjustable option. I look forward to seeing how this works
|
out. I would appreciate any input regarding this problem...and also my
choice in replacement propeller. If anyone is interested I could take some
pictures of the cracked collars. Let me know. Thanks!
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Here's the "Service Alert Skystar put out in 2001
Tom Jones
Service Alert
SERVICE ALERT 2001-01
It has come to the attention of our technical service staff that a small number of customers operating the Kitfox™ aircraft with the Continental IO-240 have experienced difficulties with the Warp Drive propeller commonly used with this engine. Reports have been received stating that cracks have been observed on the aluminum collar located at the hub end of the propeller blade. These cracks have been located close to the hub area.
Warp Drive has been informed of these reports and is investigating the issues involved. It is thought that the combination of a low inertia propeller coupled to a high compression engine may result in abnormally high propeller blade “shock” being experienced at low idle RPM’s.
SkyStar aircraft recommends that all Kitfox™ owners operating the Continental IO-240 with a Warp Drive propeller carefully inspect the propeller hub and collar area prior to each flight for evidence of cracks. It is also recommended that ground idle RPM be maintained at a speed of not less that 1100 RPM. We ask that individuals finding evidence of cracks contact SkyStar's Technical Support staff at (208) 454-1665 or e-mail Technical support at support(at)skystar.com. Warp Drive will be offering more information as it becomes available.
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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I probably should clarify that the "service Alert" I posted above was from the old now gone Skystar. The phone and email listed therein will not get you anywhere.
Tom Jones
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propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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If the Warp was ordered for the Cont. why was it sold by Warp if they don't recommended it for that engine, and don't take the responsibility for there own products.
The Ivo has very thick blades, even thicker then a wood prop, it will not give the same performance as the Warp (in Theory) but the in-flight adjust option compensate a little for this matter.
I would recommend a wood prop for all direct drive. or alu for float plane.
Jan
[quote] ---
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 2:23 am Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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At 02:09 PM 11/13/2006, you wrote:
| Quote: | If anyone is interested I could take some pictures of the cracked
collars. Let me know. Thanks!
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I would love to see a picture of the damage. I don't have the same engine
but will put this on close inspection anyway.
Guy Buchanan
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Thanks for all the input and suggestions. I will try to attach 4 pictures of the crack.
Travis
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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57_kid
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:01 am Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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FlyboyTR
who did you talk to at warp? I have the 0-200 and went to great depths with them about what if mine was to crack and they said no problem and there hasn't been any problems with mine ,, seen them at Osh Kosh and at Sun n fun easy to deal with
[quote] --
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:43 am Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Thanks for the photos Travis. Boy, good thing you found those before they
got any worse!
Deke
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 11:35 AM
Subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine)
| Quote: |
Thanks for all the input and suggestions. I will try to attach 4 pictures
of the crack.
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| Quote: |
Travis
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:50 am Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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57_kid,
I spoke with Darryl. Sure is a lot of money to just hang on the wall in the hanger!
Fox5Flyer,
You're welcome! I glad I found it...rather than it finding me!
Travis
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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I remember this when it started. There was a guy at one of the Skyster
fly-ins with a crack in the aluminum - I don't remember what engine he was
running. I thought - and please correct me if I am wrong - that the
aluminum ring is non structural and serves to give a smooth metal interface
between the composite structure and the hub. I would be curious to know if
the crack is continuous with the composite blade or is limited to the
aluminum.
Lowell
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 3:32 pm Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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I'm not sure if it's continuous or not. It would be hard to tell without grinding the collar off.
Travis
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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e.akerstrom(at)sbcglobal.
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 9:29 pm Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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To any who are interested:
Gary Borrmann has a Warp Drive on a Model 5 with a Contintal O-200, and
experienced cracking of the hub twice.
Ed Akerstrom
--
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:28 am Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Ed,
What prop did he end up going with? I'm afraid that one round of cracking is enough for me...especially with all the stories of the Warp Drive cracking.
Travis
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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Fox5flyer
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Forwarded from Kifox owner not on List.
Deke
Deke -
That guy with the Warp drive cracking problem with the IO-240B.
This was addressed by Skystar via a Bulletin a long time ago, I read in the thread about
putting a Ivoprop Magnum on it with inflight adjustable hub. If you can please post this, because
unless he puts about 20 pounds of ballast in the tail, that combination with an IO-240B is
simply not going to balance.
I have a wood sensenich, which is probably 15 lb.s lighter than that Ivo, and I'm at the forward
end of the envelope (less ballast). I put 12 pound's in the tail to get the CG at a more reasonable
location.
Jeff Hays
N85AE Series 5, IO-240B
[quote][b]
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Thanks for the reminder. My quick calculations show that I will be at the forward CG limit with the additional weight. Once installed, I may add some weight to the tail for peace of mind. Plan to increase the size of the battery next year anyway...it is in the tail of the plane. Thanks again for your input!
Travis
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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FlyboyTR
Joined: 04 Nov 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Mobile, Alabama
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: Re: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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Ivo Magnum arrived. Looks OK. Wanted to add a couple of pictures showing the Warp Drive and the Magnum. It looks really "large" as compaired to the Warp. Plan to install this week. I'll update after installation and flight testing.
Travis
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_________________
Travis Rayner
Mobile, AL
Skystar Vixen, N-789DF
Continental IO-240, Prince P-Tip Prop
ADI-II Autopilot
AnyWhereMap Navigation with weather
www.enotam.net (My Flying Info Website) |
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wingsdown(at)comcast.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:01 am Post subject: Vixen: Warp Drive Cracked (Continental Engine) |
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At first I thought dang big blade, wide cord, longer, and then I saw it
is going on a continental. That looks about right to me. Hope it works
out. Interested in the real world results. Thanks for the pics. Love
that feature.
Rick
--
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