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stitching ribs
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kitfox555(at)sbcglobal.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:13 am Post subject: stitching ribs

I'm hearing that some don't stitch their ribs,  why not?     Is there a reason for that ?



Jerry Evans 

kitfox 555 [quote][b]

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:24 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Jerry, 

 that like saying is there a reason to stitch  ?

  

  

 How many problems has there actually been from  fabirc lifting ?

  

 Mine are not stitched. 

  

 Dave 

 [quote]   ---

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Brett Walmsley

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 47
Location: Savannah, GA

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:15 am Post subject: Re: stitching ribs

I stitched mine.

I'm glad I did.

It was fun and educational.

Took a day and a half to do both wings.

I would suggest not using the flat cord.

_________________
Brett
Model IV 1200/912UL

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:21 am Post subject: stitching ribs

In my opinion, "Reasons Not To Stitch" is that many  people  consider stitching  either too hard, too time consuming, or  just plain too intimidating.  None of these reasons are true once you get  into the stitching process. "Reasons To Stitch"....At one time, Poly Fiber  did not consider stitching an option but, considered it absolutely  necessary.  This was stated by Poly Fiber on several occasions back when I  was stitching. My SS manual referred to stitching as an "OPTION". Poly  Fiber greatly disagreed.

  

 Don Smythe

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:49 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Don, do you know of any failures of non sticked  wings on Kitfox or Avids ?  

 The capstrip is about an inch wide plus the fillet  that is formed when you attach.  

 I would guess unlessa poor job wasdone that you  should fear the failure of the plywood itself before the glue lets go.  

  

  

 Dave 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

rjdaugh

Joined: 30 Aug 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:52 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Ditto!



It took me a while to get the knot figured out working from the Polyfiber

book, but it was fun and I too am glad I did it.



Randy



.           

--

_________________
Randy
Kitfox 5/7 912S
Black Hills, South Dakota

RRTRACK(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:03 am Post subject: stitching ribs

I built and flew an Avid Aerobat without the rib stitching and never  had any problems in ten years even with the high G's. But when I built my STOL  wings I rib stitched them and I would again because of the under camber wing  design. Not hard to do and can only be done at time of covering.

 Mark

 Wisconsin

 Avid STOL 582

 Kitfox Vixen 912 UL 

  [quote][b]

kitfoxmike

Joined: 05 Dec 2006
Posts: 373

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:26 am Post subject: Re: stitching ribs

I rib stitched mine, and I guess it was mainly for piece of mine.  I can't see the top of the wing and I do get a little radical in my flying, one less thing to think about.  On the lacing I gave up on the multi knot and went with individual knots down the rib, went real fast once I did that.

n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 10:53 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Looking for earth-friendly autos? 

 Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.   [quote][b]

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:16 am Post subject: stitching ribs

I do not know of any wing failures due to not rib  stitching.  However, I do recall one rib cap failure (the one on the  fuselage top outboard) that came loose in flight.  Those 1" rib caps are  held on by a small amount of glue and very small staples.  The glue is  holding in stress not shear.  I do not recall seeing a fillet at the joint  of the rib cap/rib.  However, it's been a while.  I would strongly  suggest that the joint would break before the plywood.

     Either way, we could talk all  week about the joint/glue/break first/break second and it wouldn't matter.   Poly Fiber highly recommends rib lacing on their product.  Rib lacing  provides a mechanical fastening between the top and bottom rib  caps.

  

 Don Smythe

  

 ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:38 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Don ,

  

 What did the former companies reco-mend  ?

 denney ,skystar,  avid,  and   now  Sportplanes ? 

  

 Show me where they separate and I will think about  stitching.  To me there really is little evidence that it is needed with  the wide capstrip  that we have.  

 I have covered Ultralights with fabirc that have  1/2 " or less width catstrip and never seen one come loose yet . 

  

  

 Dave 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 11:41 am Post subject: stitching ribs

Don, I should have added that perhaps the faster  Kitfoxes might be "more prone" to needing stitching  that cruise over 130  mph but certainly not the majority of them have not proven that is is needed to  be done. but Like I sais I certainly stand to be corrected. 

  

  

 Dave 

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:48 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Dave,

     You made two post on the same  subject so I put them back into one.  see below.

  

 First post,

 "that cruise over 130 mph"

 Not very many cruise over 130 MPH. Review the Poly  Fiber web site http://www.polyfiber.com/.  It does  not mention any speed just said, "rib lace".  They are the manufacture and  should know the best procedures for installing their product.

  

 Second post, 

 >>What did the former companies reco-mend  ?>>

 I  already stated that my SS manual used the  term "OPTIONAL" for rb lacing.  Poly Fiber does not agree with the term  "OPTIONAL".  They want you to rib lace.



 [quote]    

   >>Show me where they separate and I will    think about stitching.  To me there really is little evidence that it is    needed with the wide capstrip  that we have.  

   I have covered Ultralights with fabirc that have    1/2 " or less width catstrip and never seen one come loose yet .>>    

    

   I already stated there has been one cap    failure.  You said show me, I did.  I don't need failure    evidence.  I just follow the Manufacture recommended procedure.  In    this case the Manufacture is Poly Fiber not Kitfox.  Poly Fiber designed    the fabric covering and how to install it.  Denny/Skystar/etc. only use    their product.  I can't argue an exact airspeed where rib lacing or not    will save your bacon.  That is a foolish discussion.

    

   Don Smythe

    

   

 

   [quote]     I do not know of any wing failures due to not      rib stitching.  However, I do recall one rib cap failure (the one on      the fuselage top outboard) that came loose in flight.  Those 1" rib      caps are held on by a small amount of glue and very small staples.  The      glue is holding in stress not shear.  I do not recall seeing a fillet      at the joint of the rib cap/rib.  However, it's been a while.  I      would strongly suggest that the joint would break before the      plywood.

         Either way, we could talk      all week about the joint/glue/break first/break second and it wouldn't      matter.  Poly Fiber highly recommends rib lacing on their      product.  Rib lacing provides a mechanical fastening between the top      and bottom rib caps.

      

     Don Smythe

      

     ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:57 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Don, Thanks fo the info.  What does sportplane  recomend? 

  

 I would tend to think that there is nothing wrong  with or with-out stitching. 

  

  I have no trouble flying without stitching.  And remeber Poly fibrre is most likely being over cautious for liability  reasoning.  

  

 I don't think that if you not stitched that there  is any case for alarm at all. 

  

  

  

 Dave

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Dave,

     Who is sportplane and what do  they have to do with Poly Fiber procedures?   As far as Poly Fiber  being over cautious, that is the side I would follow for life critical aircraft  components.  If you don't want to rib lace, fine.  There are more  reasons to rib lace than not.  It is the builders  choice. 

  

 Don Smythe

  

  

 [quote]   ---

n981ms(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Skystar said riblacing optional and riblaced the factory demonstrators that I saw.  My polyfiber book specifically said it did not if the cap strips were 1 inch wide.  There needed to be a mechanical fastener.  It is not difficult or terribly time consuming.

  I will never wish that I had not riblaced.

  Somebody, some day might wish they had.

  Maxwell in Georgia S6/TD/IO240

Don Smythe <dosmythe(at)cox.net> wrote:

  [quote]          Dave,

      You made two post on the same subject so I put them back into one.  see below.

  First post,

  "that cruise over 130 mph"

  Not very many cruise over 130 MPH. Review the Poly Fiber web site http://www.polyfiber.com/.  It does not mention any speed just said, "rib lace".  They are the manufacture and should know the best procedures for installing their product.

  Second post, 

  >>What did the former companies reco-mend ?>>

  I  already stated that my SS manual used the term "OPTIONAL" for rb lacing.  Poly Fiber does not agree with the term "OPTIONAL".  They want you to rib lace.

  [quote]   

  >>Show me where they separate and I will think about stitching.  To me there really is little evidence that it is needed with the wide capstrip  that we have.  

  I have covered Ultralights with fabirc that have 1/2 " or less width catstrip and never seen one come loose yet .>> 

  I already stated there has been one cap failure.  You said show me, I did.  I don't need failure evidence.  I just follow the Manufacture recommended procedure.  In this case the Manufacture is Poly Fiber not Kitfox.  Poly Fiber designed the fabric covering and how to install it.  Denny/Skystar/etc. only use their product.  I can't argue an exact airspeed where rib lacing or not will save your  bacon.  That is a foolish discussion.

  Don Smythe

  [quote]  I do not know of any wing failures due to not rib stitching.  However, I do recall one rib cap failure (the one on the fuselage top outboard) that came loose in flight.  Those 1" rib caps are held on by a small amount of glue and very small staples.  The glue is holding in stress not shear.  I do not recall seeing a fillet at the joint of the rib cap/rib.  However, it's been a while.  I would strongly suggest that the joint would break before the plywood.

      Either way, we could talk all week about the joint/glue/break first/break second and it wouldn't matter.  Poly Fiber highly recommends rib lacing on their product.  Rib lacing provides a mechanical fastening between the top and bottom rib caps.

  Don Smythe

  ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Sportplane -- I mean John McBean 

  

 Poly fiber is asbsolutly being careful for  liability reasons. no doubt about that. 

  

 Personally it is a choice,  but then again so  is a BRS chute ......in a Kitfox I don;t see the need for either.

 I won't fly in a plane that needs a parachute  unless it strapped to myself when a test pilot.

  

 Dave

  

  

 [quote]   ---

dosmythe(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Dave,

     No offence to John but, the  plain fact is that Poly Fiber (the Manufacturer) is recommending rib stitching  on "their" product.  Why is that so hard to accept?  You say that Poly  Fiber is "absolutely" being liability careful and there is "NO" doubt about  that.  Do you have first hand knowledge of the internal workings of Poly  Fiber?  How can you make such a statement?  

  

 Don Smythe

 [quote]   ---

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:48 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Don, 

  

 What does the airplane Kit manufacturer ask for in  build manual?  

 That is what is required for inspection here.  Possibly more but you cannot make a design change without approval.

  

 Don, you summed it up here quite well in your quote  " I do not know of any wing failures due to not rib stitching. "  

  

  

 anymore questions ? 

  

  

  

 Dave

  

  

  

  

 [quote]   ---

eskflyer(at)lvcisp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:38 pm Post subject: stitching ribs

Jerry

  My plane is a Kitfox 2 high lift wing and is  not rib stitched. Never had a problem in over 700 hours now, she started her  flying career in 99. I did not build the plane. If i were to do it ,I would  ribstitch . I love the look of a nicely done stitch job. 

  

 John Perry

   [quote][b]

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